Kramer1113
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Christians Don't Die.
What Happens to Us When We Die?
- Thread starter Ringo
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r1derbike
New member
I studied Theology while in College, from a brilliant professor. After it was all said, and done, with arguments pro and con (we were admonished to state our beliefs, and our "take" on passages) the professor said take what you will from the word. It was written by the human hand, subject to embellishment, preposterous assumptions, and downright lies. He said there was truth in the word, as well. We were free to interpret, but were responsible to weigh both sides (belief, non belief) and pass his exams on his input, and our class input. It was really an "open" course, and opened my eyes because of input from 70 or so students in the class.
This was shocking, to have an open minded professor, a professor no less, who allowed we students to steer our course of study.
I came away with the thought that after we die, as stated before, our physical existence ceases. I'm leaning toward the "that's it, game over" thought of death, but have a nagging question that we just might have a spiritual consciousness that would continue. Nobody knows.
I do know one thing, rather than condemning the bible as a storybook of fables, there are life lessons to be learned from it. One is prayer. An individual choice. If nothing else, it gives me the satisfaction that I have released my anguish, and feel better that it was projected from me, whether there was something greater than me listening, or not.
Instead of both sides ridiculing believers or non believers, there is common ground to be reached, without all the condemnation.
This was shocking, to have an open minded professor, a professor no less, who allowed we students to steer our course of study.
I came away with the thought that after we die, as stated before, our physical existence ceases. I'm leaning toward the "that's it, game over" thought of death, but have a nagging question that we just might have a spiritual consciousness that would continue. Nobody knows.
I do know one thing, rather than condemning the bible as a storybook of fables, there are life lessons to be learned from it. One is prayer. An individual choice. If nothing else, it gives me the satisfaction that I have released my anguish, and feel better that it was projected from me, whether there was something greater than me listening, or not.
Instead of both sides ridiculing believers or non believers, there is common ground to be reached, without all the condemnation.
r1derbike
New member
I studied Theology while in College, from a brilliant professor (Dr. Angel, how ironic is that?). After it was all said, and done, with arguments pro and con (we were admonished to state our beliefs, and our "take" on passages) the professor said take what you will from the word. It was written by the human hand, subject to embellishment, preposterous assumptions, and downright lies. He said there was truth in the word, as well. We were instructed to take the bible as a whole, and not dwell on passages to live our lives by their suppression. We were free to interpret, but were responsible to weigh both sides (belief, non belief) and pass his exams on his input, and our class input. It was really an "open" course, and opened my eyes because of input from 70 or so students in the class.
This was shocking, to have an open minded professor, a professor no less, who allowed we students to steer our course of study.
I came away with the thought that after we die, as stated before, our physical existence ceases. I'm leaning toward the, "that's it, game over" thought of death, but have a nagging question that we just might have a spiritual consciousness that would continue. Nobody knows.
I do know one thing, rather than condemning the bible as a storybook of fables, there are life lessons to be learned from it. One is prayer. An individual choice. If nothing else, it gives me the satisfaction that I have released my anguish, and feel better that it was projected from me, whether there was something greater than me listening, or not.
Instead of both sides ridiculing believers or non believers, there is common ground to be reached, without all the condemnation.
This was shocking, to have an open minded professor, a professor no less, who allowed we students to steer our course of study.
I came away with the thought that after we die, as stated before, our physical existence ceases. I'm leaning toward the, "that's it, game over" thought of death, but have a nagging question that we just might have a spiritual consciousness that would continue. Nobody knows.
I do know one thing, rather than condemning the bible as a storybook of fables, there are life lessons to be learned from it. One is prayer. An individual choice. If nothing else, it gives me the satisfaction that I have released my anguish, and feel better that it was projected from me, whether there was something greater than me listening, or not.
Instead of both sides ridiculing believers or non believers, there is common ground to be reached, without all the condemnation.
billt
Banned
I couldn't agree more. The Bible, for lack of a better way of putting it, teaches "goodness". How we treat our fellow man, as well as our behavior on this Earth in general. The problem is when people start using it as a foundation to "prove" the concept of life after death, heaven and hell, the existence of God and Satin, and all of the rest.
Saltheart Foamfollower
New member
pocketcarry
New member
If you have to ask that question, you are not a Christian.
XD40scinNC
New member
It does, yet the hateful christians use the same book to justify their hatred of anyone that has different views.
Many followers of the bible use it like a dictionary, the words to justify their hatred or bias can be found in the bible, just like a dictionary.
Ringo
A WATCHMAN
Incorrect, the problem began when the churches stopped using he Bible as a foundation to "prove the concept of life after death, heaven and hell, the existence of God and Satin (Satan), and all of the rest".
Yes sir, the biggest mistake would be to preach about sin! You don’t want anyone feeling uncomfortable or guilty. And don’t be stupid enough to get into anything political or you’re liable to lose that tax-exempt status. You want to make those people walk out of that service feeling better than they did when they came in. They’re looking for reassurance that no matter what kind of lifestyle they’re living, God sanctions their behavior and so do you. They must never, EVER get the sense that anyone is judging them. Drug addicts, gays, couples living together, serial adulterers, alcoholics, marijuana smokers, white-collar thieves, you name it—it doesn’t matter. Just remember that Jesus loves everybody, right? No matter what the denomination happens to be, this is mostly what our God sees when He looks down at America. If it makes me want to gag, how must God feel? When is the last time YOUR pastor preached against sin? Or the need for repentance and holy, righteous living? Or, is your church a lukewarm, Laodicean country club, beautiful on the outside but full of dead men’s bones? When was the last time your congregation along with the pastor, prayerfully, lovingly and privately confronted those in the congregation who are living in willful, blatant sin? Have they declared that, until that person turns from their evil ways, they are no longer welcome?
Those actions are terribly uncomfortable and not for the faint of heart. They're the actions of a strong, Godly shepherd who loves and cares for his flock. This kind of shepherd is unfortunately, very rare these days. It seems that most pastors are caught up in the bigger-better rat race and have abandoned their first love. Are you attending a church where the Word of God is cherry-picked for subjects that aren’t offensive? Does your pastor talk about repenting of sin and striving to be holy as God is holy? Have you ever heard him speak about the reality of hell? Does he warn you that the Age of Grace is about to conclude, and that Christ is on the verge of snatching His Bride home any second now? Does he explain what it takes to be ready to go, and what will befall those left behind? If you aren’t hearing these things from your preacher or Bible teachers, you need to get out of that worthless, dead church and seek one that’s alive with the Holy Spirit. I know that they’re extremely hard to find but they still exist. Pray the Lord will lead you to one and He will guide you. It’s true that we need to welcome everyone into the church, no matter how tattered or torn or filthy with sin they happen to be. But, we don’t leave them that way just because we don’t want to offend them or hurt their feelings!
The prevailing attitude within the Christian community today is that confronting sin is not "loving." We shouldn’t "judge" because Jesus loved everyone. Where are you people getting this?! What a load of unmitigated garbage! Refusing to confront sin in a person’s life and pointing them to the Savior, is the single most hateful, vile thing you could ever do to another human being! We don’t have much time left to spread the good news of the Gospel. For heaven’s sake, don’t even bother being associated with a wuss church that "LOVES" people straight to hell.
Life Is Good. :victory:
~ Why Be Politically Correct When You Can Be Right ~
Given that you've stated on several occasions that you've never read it what standing do you have to comment on what's in it
Axeanda45
Banned
lt took me nearly 5 years to find a preacher that knew what he was talking about... Lots of ear ticklers are about all there is anymore..
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XD40scinNC
New member
A sniff is sufficient to indicate that it is unfit for human consumption....
And I attended parochial school for 7 years and was fully exposed to the BS it contains, one of the reasons I am a hardcore atheist.
mappow
New member
A glorious rebirth or damnation. The choice.............is...........yours. Is it really what you what to gamble your eternal life on? Or be just "Dust in the Wind"
XD40scinNC
New member
The moment you propose Pascal's Wager is the moment you've conceded the argument.
Pascal's Wager isn't an argument for why god exists and is really real. Pascal's Wager is, in fact, 100% disconnected from the question of whether god exists and is really real. Pascal's Wager offers no evidence for god's existence -- not even the shaky "evidence" of the appearance of design or the supposed fine-tuning of the universe or the feelings in your heart. It offers no logical argument for why god must exist or probably exists -- not even the paper-thin "logic" of the First Cause argument. It does not offer one scrap of a positive reason for thinking that god is real.
vernsimpson
New member
It is really not a stretch at all. I have rebuilt over a 100 machines for Federal Cartridge and know there can be a hundred different reasons why a round will not fire and that does not take in all the reasons why the gun could fail! Granted, the modern manufacturing methods are very good. But anything made by man can and WILL fail!!! My point is very simple. Nobody knows if the gun and the ammo will preform as it was designed until after the trigger is pulled! You have made my point that you BELIEVE and have FAITH that the gun AND the round will preform as intended! I also believe and have the same faith too!
I believe and have faith in God's promises as written in the Bible. I can not state them for a fact because I have not seen them as yet. But I have seen many wonders and I would say miracles that I can not explain away as many try to do. I have always been fascinated by nature and the wonders and how in a way it is so very complex but at the same time so very simple. I have never been able to explain it away as just evolution. But I do believe that animals and plants do evolve. If there was no evolution then man would ONLY live in the areas where the climate was the same year around and the plants and animals would do the same!!!!
We were given free will. We must live with our choices. Do you really want to have to regret your choice for all time? We all have a hard time getting our mind around eternity. I know I do! I have made my choice and would hope and pray that you make yours and that you will not regret it!
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billt
Banned
That was a nice speech. And you're partially correct. The problem is no one wants to listen to it, period. Churches are in decline for much the same reason liberal talk radio failed, and MSNBC is down to 14 viewers. People didn't want to hear their country bashed 24/7, and be made to believe America is the reason for all the "bad" in the world. Perhaps they don't mind a good, well thought out argument once in a while, that might suggest a few of America's policies in given situations weren't the most carefully thought out. But they don't want to listen to someone blame the United States for everything bad since the Pilgrims arrived at Plymouth. Churches discovered much the same thing.
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Who the hell wants to get all dressed up, drive there, sit in a hard, wooden pew Sunday after Sunday, having some forehead sweating sky pilot screaming at them for an hour straight? Telling them all the while how they're going to burn in hell for all eternity, because they're nothing more than walking garbage? Then, expect them to drop money in the basket after listening to it? Week in and week out. It's not going to happen. That's like asking a guy for $10 bucks, then kicking him in the nuts after he gives it to you. When you do something bad, you don't need, or want to listen to someone harping at you for it for hours on end. People will simply tune out. Much the same way you did when your parents gave you "a talking to" for something you did wrong, that you knew was wrong before you did it. In the case of a church, they'll just stop coming. No money in the basket..... No church. So they had to make it interesting if people were going to keep coming, and more importantly, keep giving.
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Today most people come to church because they think in some abstract way it somehow makes them "holier" than the guy who doesn't. And in the whole convoluted process, God will wind up liking them more. Still more bull$h!t. But because it's bull$h!t that sells, they keep engaging the people, and in the process, sell the fantasy. The whole televangelist concept was built on this very fact. You'll get the express elevator straight up the more you give. And let's face it, in today's world it costs money to get to Heaven, just like everything else. People have become used to the concept. And selling Heaven is a hot commodity. Just look at what ISIS and Al Qaida is doing to get there. The fact of the matter is people are more inclined to give you something, if you tell them what they want to hear. Rather than screaming at them for an hour a week, about what total and complete pieces of $h!t they have become.......... In God's eyes of course, not theirs. It's plain old common sense.
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Churches stopped selling life after death because the bulk of the people don't believe in it, and more importantly.... It doesn't sell all that well. That's the plain truth. Sure, they'll touch on the subject from time to time. But it's all in the interest of getting more in the collection bucket. Rather than it is promising the parishioners a quicker elevator ride to the clouds, so they can play with lions, rather than get a hot pitchfork stuck up their asses when it's dying time. Which brings us right back to where we were before. The reason they don't believe in it, is simply because the evidence that suggests it isn't all that good. At least not in their eyes. And they're the ones who are having the concept pitched to. Do you really believe if Billy Mays had married a big titted bleach blonde with a lot of eye makeup, and became a preacher instead of a pitchman for Oxyclean, he'd still be alive today? He only would have died wealthier. And as Jack Nicholson said in "The Bucket List": "And the wheels on the bus go round and round".
billt
Banned
Understood. However, the simple truth of the matter is most people are going to have more faith in a pistol with modern ammunition discharging on command, than they are going to buy into the concept they're going to live forever after they croak. A lot of testing has gone into the subject of guns and ammunition, that in the process has produced better odds. You said, "Do you really want to have to regret your choice for all time?" You're going right back to selling by way of the fear concept I mentioned earlier that, if you're wrong, what have you lost? When you get right down to it, that's a pretty lame reason to believe in something...... Out of fear of what might happen if you don't. Many Germans "believed" in the Third Reich for the same reason. They didn't feel like showering with the Jews.
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That is why most churches have given up on the whole fire and brimstone concept. Except for David Koresh, who used it very successfully to literally scare his people straight to death. I choose to believe in things that have a preponderance of solid evidence showing that they really exist. And for many people, including myself, the Bible comes up way short in that department. Again, no matter how you proceed down this road, we're right back to a lack of convincing evidence. If the hereafter went on trial in a court of law, it would be thrown out for a lack of provable evidence. Hearsay isn't allowed because it can be fabricated bull$h!t, nothing more. You would not want to be falsely convicted of armed robbery, or worse murder based on hearsay evidence. So it only stands to reason why would you embrace it as any type of solid proof of life after death?
Saltheart Foamfollower
New member
My feeling is that you either believe or you don't. You have faith or you don't. That's not to say that you can't gain or lose faith.
Islam believes that you can FORCE someone to believe. I do not.
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Islam believes that you can FORCE someone to believe. I do not.
Sent from my SCH-i705 using USA Carry mobile app
billt
Banned
Pretty much agree. A person has to acquire faith on his or her own. A sky pilot can't sell it to you. Or can a church regardless of denomination.
billt
Banned
Every religion hates those who don't see it the same way. The Muslims want to kill you for it. Just because we're all, "children of God", doesn't mean we're all one big happy family, filled with love and devotion. The amount of wars fought over religion proves that, if it proves anything.
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