Saltheart Foamfollower
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Neither did Jesus. Unless you were there, it's heresay.
What Happens to Us When We Die?
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Neither did Jesus. Unless you were there, it's heresay.
Hearsay.
If you look at the Biblical account in context the first place the resurrection story is told is in the very town where it happened, to the very people who had not only witnessed but participated in Christ’s execution. That would be like me going to downtown Manhattan and saying 9-11 never happened.
The Bible also recounts that Jesus was seen alive by a lot of people after His death again the first place this was told was in the Town where it happened and the Bible states that many righteous who were dead came back to life after Christ died and came into town after the resurrection. Remember Christ was killed in Jerusalem right around the time of the Passover there were a lot of witnesses in town. If that hadn’t happened the crowd would have probably killed Peter for being a loon.
If Christ hadn’t been resurrected like the Apostles said Christianity would have died right there in the same town because the people in Jerusalem would have known it was a lie.
The first time Peter preached (50 days after the resurrection) 3000 people became Christians do you think he would have got that kind of result if there had still been a body in that tomb?
Farmhood
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Yeah Yeah and JFK didn't get shot either...funny
sinful nature is always hostile to God....
Saltheart Foamfollower
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So then you have video of Jesus rising from the dead? By all means, post it.
Farmhood
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To be fair there is film of JFK's assassination
SR9
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Sorry, you're wrong again. It is documented and He was seen by hundreds after He was risen. I believe the Bible more than I believe your birth certificate saying you were born human. I wasn't there and didn't see it. LOL
Farmhood
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Like I said go back a little. If the only history anyone believes is on film... well that is just goofy.
sinful nature is always hostile to God....
Farmhood
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It is more than a different perspective.
Notes on Saul Alinsky and Neo-Marxism:
*
**** Alinsky's tactics were based, not on Stalin's revolutionary violence, but on the Neo-Marxist strategies of**Antonio Gramsci, an Italian Communist. Relying on*gradualism, infiltration and thedialectic process*rather than a bloody revolution, Gramsci's transformational Marxism was so subtle that few even noticed the deliberate changes.
**** Like Alinsky,*Mikhail Gorbachev*followed Gramsci, not Lenin. In fact, Gramsci aroused Stalins's wrath by suggesting that Lenin's revolutionary plan wouldn't work in the West. Instead theprimary*assault*
would be on*Biblical absolutes*and Christian values, which must be crushed as a social force before the new face of Communism could rise and flourish.
I wonder who sounds like this?
sinful nature is always hostile to God....
Saltheart Foamfollower
New member
To my mind, and let me be clear that this my opinion, the Jesus story is a fable or morality play. Once a story reaches the mythical proportions the Jesus story has, it ceases to be history and becomes suspect.
The story of Washington chopping down the cherry tree has risen to that level.
If you choose to believe the Bible, that's your choice. I think you're foolish, just as you think I am. But to each his own.
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The story of Washington chopping down the cherry tree has risen to that level.
If you choose to believe the Bible, that's your choice. I think you're foolish, just as you think I am. But to each his own.
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I never attempted to use the Bible to convince you to believe in the Gospel. I was merely pointing out that it contains an internal logical consistency.
Farmhood
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I do not think you are foolish. I do think you are lost but if you know the way...thats your call...right? Hey it's just like when on a trip with my wife. She says I'm lost and I say "Am Not" So that's the end of it, I really did want to go by that other farm.
sinful nature is always hostile to God....
vernsimpson
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If someone took a gun, loaded it with a round in the chamber, place the barrel to their head and squeezed the trigger what would happen? If you say that they would kill themselves, then what do you base that on? FAITH that the gun will fire or that you KNOW it will fire.
IMHO you can not know it will fire until after the trigger is pulled! You can only have faith that it will fire!
The same can be said about faith in God! I have faith and believe in God and His promises.
Just as you have faith and believe that the gun will fire! It is as simple as that!
IMHO you can not know it will fire until after the trigger is pulled! You can only have faith that it will fire!
The same can be said about faith in God! I have faith and believe in God and His promises.
Just as you have faith and believe that the gun will fire! It is as simple as that!
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Saltheart Foamfollower
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I appreciate that you aren't attacking me for my unbelief. I may debate the validity of yours, but I try hard to not attack you for it.
I do have a belief system, but there us no "higher power" in it. It would be difficult to describe it adequately here. But it would place me in the agnostic category if one were to try and pigeonhole me. One thing I won't do is refer to god as "sky daddy" and the like. Nothing is accomplished by derogatory words in a debate.
I appreciate all the different points of view.
Sent from my XT907 using USA Carry mobile app
I do have a belief system, but there us no "higher power" in it. It would be difficult to describe it adequately here. But it would place me in the agnostic category if one were to try and pigeonhole me. One thing I won't do is refer to god as "sky daddy" and the like. Nothing is accomplished by derogatory words in a debate.
I appreciate all the different points of view.
Sent from my XT907 using USA Carry mobile app
billt
Banned
Comparing that a modern firearm will fire with modern ammunition, and the validity of the Kennedy assassination, along with the fact 9/11 actually happened,............ to the existence of Jesus or God is a bit of a stretch. I'm pro Christian, and I would like to think I believe in God. But the fact is, some of the lengths Christians go to try and "prove" the existence of God is a bit long. Another is the "reasons" they give. I hear from Christians a lot, this nonsense of, "Well, if I'm wrong, and nothing happens when I die, what have I lost?".... That tells me pure and simple they don't really believe, they just want to believe. So when they go, they're hoping to get the elevator to the Pearly Gates, instead of the shaft to hell. They're trying to bull$h!t themselves out of fear. That's a bit like telling yourself you didn't p!ss in your pants, when you did....... And believing it. It's ridiculous and comical at the same time. Kind of like in Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid, when Paul Newman said to Redford: "I think we lost 'em......... Do you think we lost 'em?....... (Redford) NO!...... (Newman) Neither do I!
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If you want to try and believe for yourself there is a God, that's fine. But trying to "prove" it to others, so you yourself will ultimately believe it more is total nonsense. If both engines quit on the twin engine airplane you were flying on, you could never convince yourself, let alone the pilot, you weren't going to crash. Unless of course, you were both straight up nuts. So how can you honestly convince others God exists, when you barely believe it yourself? And always have to remind yourself? No matter if you like it or not, odds factor in to this as well, just like anything else. The odds that Kennedy was shot, and that 9/11 actually happened, and a new pistol would go off with a fresh round of modern ammunition in the chamber, is a hell of a lot better than the existence of God. Especially when all you have for proof, is a book written over 2,000 years ago, by a bunch of guys who wrote it over 3 centuries after he supposedly died. You've got a better chance of convincing a Republican Hillary is honest.
XD40scinNC
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I'd settle for some grainy 8mm film.
billt
Banned
Absolutely. However with that said, the more convincing the evidence, the easier it is to believe. Back to 9/11. It was covered and filmed by literally thousands of people, 11 ways to Sunday. People have little to no trouble believing it happened. Most think the 9/11 "truthers" are nuts, with all of their "missile attack", crap. That, along with Rosie O'Donnell and her, "Fire can't melt steel!" foolishness. There is just too much rock solid evidence to prove otherwise. It makes them all look like idiots in the process.
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You can sell a conspiracy theory of the Kennedy assassination a hell of a lot easier than you can 9/11. Better quality evidence of 9/11 is the reason why. Another thing that effects the Bible and believing Christianity is time itself. 2000 years from now people might not believe 9/11 actually happened as much as they do today. Simply because too much time has passed. More time for the outright believability to diminish as many generations die off.
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Back to the Bible. Not so convincing for most people. As I said, even the believers need others to help reinforce their faith from time to time. Some damn near every Sunday. The sermons, candles, stained glass, holy smoke, sky pilots wearing flowing purple robes, white cookies on the tongue, and singing kids all help to make the convincing process easier for some people. They go back to believing after they walk out of Sunday mass, and head to grandma's for din din. By the next Saturday afternoon, they're ready for another sermon in order to get back to believing. Others, not so much. Add to that the New Testament is a hell of a lot more "believable" than the Old Testament, and it makes it even harder to convince people. If one part is harder to swallow, it makes believing in the other that much tougher. Add it all up and Christianity is a pretty tough sell. A lot of blind faith is involved, and with all the crap going on in the world today, that is a commodity most people don't have much of these days.
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