vernsimpson
New member
So very true!!! Also there will be no atheists in Heaven either! One day ALL the deniers of God will recall how often they rejected Him while they are sadly tormented for all eternity!!
What Happens to Us When We Die?
- Thread starter Ringo
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So very true!!! Also there will be no atheists in Heaven either! One day ALL the deniers of God will recall how often they rejected Him while they are sadly tormented for all eternity!!
Ringo
A WATCHMAN
When The Unsaved Dies:How Long Until Hell Fire?
The unsaved, lost souls in our world are an extremely heavy burden in my prayer life. What really troubles me is how calloused they are and only get agitated if you press them for their soul needs. Eternity is an eternal period that will never end. Every one of us was created in the image of our Creator. We have the “spirit of life” from Him and will live forever. This body will be resurrected–whether in Eternal Life or Eternal Death. I would love to believe that the unsaved will be obliterated but I cannot deny the Holy Bible. In our present society almost no one trembles at the Word of God or before God Himself. We have become a proud, although broken, generation that is glorying in our self-esteem and positive thinking. Since we do not need to fear Him, we do not respect Him and are therefore slowly replacing Him with an impersonal god that is more on our human level. Religious educators and leaders have convinced the modern preachers to present a more benign God and gospel to this generation to attract a larger portion of the community to their institutions. Indeed it has, but the level of Christianity in these churches is woefully unbiblical. America needs a dose of the theology of Hell. A proper presentation of the final judgment and the eternal abode of unsaved and wicked men would help shake our churches back to their senses. Our permissive discipline in the home has destroyed the family and is now destroying the church. If you don’t believe the Bible is absolute, you will have trouble believing what it says about the horrors of Hell and the Lake of Fire. I would not dare write what I’m writing about this horrible place if I did not know the Holy Scripture was God-breathed and perfect. “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness” (II Timothy 3:16). I also believe the reverse is true, that families and society will have a greater respect for Holy Scripture when they clearly understand eternal judgment.
The Holiness of God
Our God is absolutely holy. He is perfect in every aspect of His eternal being and cannot tolerate rebellion in His universe without proper consequences. To think of our Heavenly Father turning murderers and rapists loose to continue the defiling of humankind right into eternity defies the perfect nature of His very person. Nothing will awaken you to spiritual things like the picture of damned souls separated forever from everything beautiful, of persons and groups of individuals who will be lost and judged to spend eternity in the “Lake of Fire", cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 8:11-12).
Whosoever was Not Found Written in the Book of Life: “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire” (Revelation 20:15, 10). The Fearful, Unbelieving, Abominable, Murderers, Whore-mongers, Sorcerers, Idolaters, and All Liars: “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whore-mongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death” (Revelation 21:8).
Difference Between Hell and the Lake of Fire
Remember, Hell is the abode of the wicked dead, but the Lake of Fire is the place of eternal judgment. The wicked will remain in Hell from the time of their death until the White Throne Judgment. Then Hell will deliver up its dead to be judged. Then, they will be assigned to the Lake of Fire. It’s important to understand the kind of bodies that the wicked will possess for eternity. Jesus described the resurrection of all men during His earthly ministry. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation” (John 5:28-29). The children of God will come out of the graves with glorified bodies, endued with life in the fullest sense. It will be life without the limitation of anything human. The opposite is true for the wicked and unsaved. There is a resurrection of damnation. Even their bodies will be fashioned in the horrors of depleted humanity. Every conceivable limitation and misery of human experience will constitute the design of these eternal creatures. They will dwell forever in a body that is full of death. It will be an eternal death.The Horrors of the Lake of Fire
The bodies which these damned creatures will inhabit is Hell itself, but that’s just the beginning. Let’s use only the explicit words of Holy Scripture to try and paint a picture of this horrible damnation. God never intended that one living soul would spend eternity in this place. It was prepared for the devil and his angels. “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41). Outer Darkness
“But the Children of this World's Kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 8:12). This term is used three times in Holy Scripture. We are not talking about a moonless midnight or the condition of a dark and foreboding cloud. The term outer darkness would suggest a place completely outside the realm of all light: beyond the very light of creation or a place of uncreated blackness and darkness. In the book of Genesis the Bible speaks before God created light: “And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters” (Genesis 1:2). In such a place of outer darkness or uncreated darkness, there will never be even a glimmer or ray of light. No beauty of a created sunshine or sunset, a rainbow, or even a moon or stars will ever appear. There will be nothing, as we know life, to brighten or cheer the constantly deepening gloom. We are talking about darkness totally beyond the reach of light.Weeping and Wailing
“And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” “So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 13:42, 49-50). The physical pain that we presently experience has no kin to what a resurrection of damnation suggests. The mental stress of such an environment will be shattering. I would suggest that these words, “weeping and wailing” is more descriptive of emotion and mental pain than physical. We probably know nothing in this present world of the kind of insanity this suggests. It will be conscious insanity, while present insanity is more likely to be unconscious. A mental hell is the ultimate fact this truth seeks to convey.Gnashing of Teeth
“Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 22:13). While weeping and wailing is suggestive of emotional pain, gnashing of teeth is probably evidence of both emotional and physical pain. This term certainly means excruciating pain that causes individuals to grind their teeth, but we are talking about more than physical discomfort. The term suggests rage or an overwhelming sense of hopelessness. It’s one thing to hurt, but it’s another matter to be hopeless of ever experiencing relief. “Gnashing of teeth” certainly implies that these individuals have reached a state when they know pain is beyond their escape. It is a conscious experience of misery — emotionally and physically — that will never end.Where the Worm Dieth Not
“Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44). The reality of eternal destruction reaches an indescribable level at this point. The very words, “where their worm dieth not,” mean exactly what he said. Jesus used a word that means a maggot or grub, which feeds on dead bodies. It is the exact word used in Acts 12:23 which states, “And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost” (Acts 12:23). We are talking about dying bodies being invaded by devouring worms that cannot die. The only words to describe that state are “a living hell.”Unquenchable Fire
“Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable” (Luke 3:17). Here we see fire that far surpasses what is presently known to man. Fire consumes; therefore, we know only of a fire that is limited to the limitations of our present world. Hell and the Lake of Fire are both unquenchable fires. Very clearly, it does not consume and is unlimited in its Fahrenheit. The Bible then adds the last level to this fiery judgment.Tormented with Fire and Brimstone
“And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone” (Revelation 19:20). “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire” (Revelation 20:15). When you add the idea of being “tormented in fire and brimstone” to the prior elements of eternal damnation, the Lake of Fire becomes an unexplainable horror. Brimstone is burning sulfur. It is both a destructive chemical when burning and is insufferable in its heat and terror. The torture of this kind of burning experience defies one’s comprehension. No wonder many modern preachers and students of Scripture have rejected this truth. How can God send men and women to a living hell? The truth is “He does not.” He is absolutely bent on keeping you out of this horrible place.Don’t ever say, “God will send you to Hell.” Only your denial and rebellion before His marvelous grace can determine such a hopeless eternity. Yes, Hell is a horrible place! Everything the Bible says about Hell or the Lake of Fire is true. It will be a Christ-less and hellish place. Billions will inhabit its misery. Will you be one of them or will you fling yourself on Jesus Christ and His forgiving and cleansing blood today? “What will wash away my sin? Nothing but the blood of Jesus.”
Joseph Chambers
Life Is Good. :victory:
If You Died Today, Would You Go To Heaven?
(There's only ONE truth)
Eternity Is Too Long To Be Wrong
(There's only ONE truth)
Eternity Is Too Long To Be Wrong
If there is nothing after this life then what is your purpose for living? The one sure thing about nature is that nature wants you dead. Not in a malicious sense but in a "I, nature, do not possess the moral judgement to care whether you live or die. Gee...my own dog doesn't really care whether I live or die...he doesn't know the difference because he can't discern danger unless it is charging at him in the form of a bigger badder dog. Now my dog may depend on me and show me what I perceive to be affection, but the truth is that if I die in front of him and don't feed him he will eat me. So if we are wandering purposelessly around the earth then why don't I come take your stuff. Don't tell me "social construct gibberish". Nature does not operate under a social contract...remember nature wants you dead. Sure nature is beautiful but it still wants you dead. Nature doesn't care. And if nature doesn't care...why should I care. Under Darwin, only the strong survive. Does that mean those with the most guns survive. There is only one reason humans have are moral beings. We were not born with a moral sense...ask any two year old. They want what they want when they want it. What separates us from nature is the Covenant with Abraham. Perhaps you non believers should study the Covenant and then study the Gospels. If atheists are so moral then they should be able to come up with a moral statement all on their own.
Pascal's Wager is nothing more than a term used to not debate a point. It is an immediate escape mechanism when someone like nosreme stands dumbstruck as he usually is. Now then the bigger question is where is Pascal...just rotting or perhaps living in Hell's kitchen. Don't place your eternity in the "Wager" pool.
If you cannot answer the simple thought..."If you are right and there is no after life, no heaven or hell, then I have nothing to worry about" with something other than that's Pascals Wager...that's Pacals Wager...then you are stating you choose to not believe in God, The Savior, or the Eternity. Be very careful of betting on the wrong horse. Some of your friends might call you a simpleton for accepting Christ...but you will finally know the truth and it will set you free!
Just one other item...the lack of evidence is not evidence. It may be as simple as looking for the evidence somewhere else. Remember that if you are a law student or an atheist.
Pascal's Wager is nothing more than a term used to not debate a point. It is an immediate escape mechanism when someone like nosreme stands dumbstruck as he usually is. Now then the bigger question is where is Pascal...just rotting or perhaps living in Hell's kitchen. Don't place your eternity in the "Wager" pool.
If you cannot answer the simple thought..."If you are right and there is no after life, no heaven or hell, then I have nothing to worry about" with something other than that's Pascals Wager...that's Pacals Wager...then you are stating you choose to not believe in God, The Savior, or the Eternity. Be very careful of betting on the wrong horse. Some of your friends might call you a simpleton for accepting Christ...but you will finally know the truth and it will set you free!
Just one other item...the lack of evidence is not evidence. It may be as simple as looking for the evidence somewhere else. Remember that if you are a law student or an atheist.
In general, the purpose of what we do is to reproduce.
No. Nature is not sentient. It has no will, or desire, or agency.
And theists should be able to do the same.
Haha, the following are a few quotes from theists:
Those are just a few. Maybe you need to reevaluate who is really "rabid" in these discussions.
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Hold up...you hypocrite... 22lr doesn't exist.
The majority of firefighters I worked with, both professionally and volunteer, end up believing in something higher than science, maybe not christian specifically, but some way to explain the events that seem miraculous. Have you not seen this experience in your co workers?
It's unfair to judge christians based on the few like SR9, but then again life isn't fair.
Sent from my D6616 using USA Carry mobile app
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Maybe some humor....
Sent from my D6616 using USA Carry mobile app
Sent from my D6616 using USA Carry mobile app
No, it's not. Do a little research.
Pascal's Wager (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
We can debate any point that you wish. However, it's important to understand that Pascal's wager does NOT support the claim that any god exists. The reason that it's generally dismissed in a discussion about any particular faith or belief system is because it doesn't support any faith or belief system.
No. If you answer that thought with "that's Pascal's wager" then you don't understand what Pascal's wager is. No one here is "answering" that thought with "that's Pascal's wager."
Theists, especially Christians, Jews, and even Muslims, unlike atheists, believe that moral code, moral direction, and moral judgement come from only God. We do not believe we are deities. Atheists, on the other hand, believe that the aforementioned moral constructs emanate from man. If that is true how come you guys are not emanating anymore.
The original question is improperly formed and in error. It is not, 'What happens to us when we ..... '; instead it is, 'What happens to me when I .....'? Confusion, disbelief, and (too often) ill-considered contempt are integral parts of that existential absurdity which underlies all material conscious being; and, for reasons I don't, quite, understand these negative intellectual characteristics appear far more frequently than usual on internet gun forums. Perhaps because firearms are weapons, and many of those who are fascinated by weapons are also fascinated by violence and death? (It's OK, you don't have to admit it!) I can't say, 'Why' for certain; but this sort of dark intellectual attraction is clearly present; and a curious - perhaps, even inevitable - conscious contempt for the presence of God along with the vitality of His clearly and often repeated moral preferences generally travels along with it.
'Hell', 'Gehenna', 'Tartarus' are - in my experience - all spiritual euphemisms for those genuine terrors which await expired conscious intellect once it becomes devoid of material form, and no longer has access to customary conscious reason. Whether internally, externally, or a combination thereof, is there, 'a judgment'? Christ warned us, 'But I say unto you, That every idle word that a man shall speak, he shall give account thereof in the Day of Judgment.' If nothing else Christ's admonition tells us that - in a greater moral sense - each and everyone of us - is responsible for everything that he thinks, says, and does.
Sacred Judeo-Christian scripture states that throughout all of his conscious suffering Job sinned not against God WITH HIS LIPS! (If he had then he would have been guilty of even greater error!) I think it safe to say that after a man dies (once, but not once only) his spirit has to stand and be tested for the privilege of keeping his soul. ('In My Father's House there are many mansions.' should tell the more spiritually adept of men that there are, also, different kinds and types of, 'soul'.)
Fathom this: God, The Father, issued, 'The Word Of Life'; and, in doing so, cannot be contradicted! (A godly characteristic which, in his vanity, the great Persian King Ahasuerus attempted to imitate - A curious fact which explains, 'Why' King Ahasuerus was unable to emphatically revoke his own original command to exterminate the Jews.) If nothing else you should, now, find your question to be, at least, partially answered.
I'll leave this reply with the following scriptural admonition: 'Fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul.' 'Rather fear Him which is able to destroy both the body and the soul in hell.' To paraphrase John Paul Sartre, 'This is hell; and people are its denizens!' I'd suggest that you give this topic some more thought. You might be able to save yourself from a lot of additional pain and suffering. (That's what I decided to do; but, then again, people have always told me that I'm older than most; and I suppose I am; however, there is little reason to brag; and, for the most part, I offer this remark with a certain sense of chagrin - A chagrin that wiser, more clever men than I would do well to avoid.) :wink:
'Hell', 'Gehenna', 'Tartarus' are - in my experience - all spiritual euphemisms for those genuine terrors which await expired conscious intellect once it becomes devoid of material form, and no longer has access to customary conscious reason. Whether internally, externally, or a combination thereof, is there, 'a judgment'? Christ warned us, 'But I say unto you, That every idle word that a man shall speak, he shall give account thereof in the Day of Judgment.' If nothing else Christ's admonition tells us that - in a greater moral sense - each and everyone of us - is responsible for everything that he thinks, says, and does.
Sacred Judeo-Christian scripture states that throughout all of his conscious suffering Job sinned not against God WITH HIS LIPS! (If he had then he would have been guilty of even greater error!) I think it safe to say that after a man dies (once, but not once only) his spirit has to stand and be tested for the privilege of keeping his soul. ('In My Father's House there are many mansions.' should tell the more spiritually adept of men that there are, also, different kinds and types of, 'soul'.)
Fathom this: God, The Father, issued, 'The Word Of Life'; and, in doing so, cannot be contradicted! (A godly characteristic which, in his vanity, the great Persian King Ahasuerus attempted to imitate - A curious fact which explains, 'Why' King Ahasuerus was unable to emphatically revoke his own original command to exterminate the Jews.) If nothing else you should, now, find your question to be, at least, partially answered.
I'll leave this reply with the following scriptural admonition: 'Fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul.' 'Rather fear Him which is able to destroy both the body and the soul in hell.' To paraphrase John Paul Sartre, 'This is hell; and people are its denizens!' I'd suggest that you give this topic some more thought. You might be able to save yourself from a lot of additional pain and suffering. (That's what I decided to do; but, then again, people have always told me that I'm older than most; and I suppose I am; however, there is little reason to brag; and, for the most part, I offer this remark with a certain sense of chagrin - A chagrin that wiser, more clever men than I would do well to avoid.) :wink:
We are emanating.
Anyway, if Christians are so moral, they should be able to come up with a moral statement all on their own.
Axeanda45
Banned
There is only ONE valid WAY.... Why do you never hear budda damn or mohomad damn? Why do people use "Jesus Christ" as a curse word? Because they dont want to admit the truth... just like you.
XD40scinNC
New member
But what if the god you have spent your life worshiping is the faux god, and the god you end up facing is really really pissed off that you had this false idol before your for decades?
Cowbilly32
New member
Faith in God does not follow human reason. It takes faith to believe and the evidence comes afterward ONLY to those who believe. I can imagine all the ways you would want to shoot holes in that statement but it doesn't bother me any...because I am a believer and as such have experienced the evidence of not only God's existence but also his love! I cannot prove it to you but if you examine the lives of TRUE Christians (not the ones who lay claim to be one) then you will see the evidence of God's existence and love in them.
Axeanda45
Banned
A number of years ago, Peter W. Stoner and Robert C. Newman wrote a book entitled Science Speaks. The book was based on the science of probability and vouched for by the American Scientific Affiliation. It set out the odds of any one man in all of history fulfilling even only eight of the 60 major prophecies (and 270 ramifications) fulfilled by the life of Christ.
The probability that Jesus of Nazareth could have fulfilled even eight such prophecies would be only 1 in 1017. That's 1 in 100, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000.
Stoner claims that that many silver dollars would be enough to cover the face of the entire state of Texas two feet deep. Now I've been to Texas. I've driven for days to get across Texas. Texas is a very big state. Who in his right mind would suppose that a blindfolded man, heading out of Dallas by foot in any direction, would be able, on his very first attempt, to pick up one specifically marked silver dollar out of 100, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000?
read it all here: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/radio034.htm
It goes even further....
The probability that Jesus of Nazareth could have fulfilled even eight such prophecies would be only 1 in 1017. That's 1 in 100, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000.
Stoner claims that that many silver dollars would be enough to cover the face of the entire state of Texas two feet deep. Now I've been to Texas. I've driven for days to get across Texas. Texas is a very big state. Who in his right mind would suppose that a blindfolded man, heading out of Dallas by foot in any direction, would be able, on his very first attempt, to pick up one specifically marked silver dollar out of 100, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000?
read it all here: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/radio034.htm
It goes even further....
Axeanda45
Banned
So, all you have is insults? That really proves your point... NOT
What would be even more interesting is any evidence that he actually fulfilled 8 prophecies.
Axeanda45
Banned
And evidence of that would be great.
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