Using reloaded hollow points for self defense

[BigSlick]

I understand the "what if" you are referring to I just think it's unnecessary. Like Doc said, it is theoretical with no case law to support it. And with that being the case why would you limit your options on a theoretical concept?

 

[NavyLCDR]

I understand the "what if" you are referring to I just think it's unnecessary. Like Doc said, it is theoretical with no case law to support it. And with that being the case why would you limit your options on a theoretical concept?

In theory the prosecution could use the fact that you clean your gun after each use - to improve reliability, but the prosecution could say you were obsessed with making sure your gun would work the first time to kill someone, in theory.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I'm sure this subject has been kicked around for years. I just though it needed another kick.
I reload. I mainly use my reloaded rounds for target practice, but sometimes I'll carry them.
IF the reloaded round is built exactly to the manufacturer's spec., why would there be any kind of legal entangelment if I was engaged in a situation where I had to defend my or my loved one's lives and the bad guy is dispatched? I've heard that a prosecuting lawyer could claim that the rounds were loaded to specifically do excessive harm...well, hell yes!
Have any of you been engaged in a conversation like this?

Just avoid any legal hassles. Buy commercial ammo for your self defense weapons.

In agreement with NAVYLCDR,

also please check each factory round when you remove it from the box.
Over the years I have found some dented, some too short and too long, and most recently 1/2 a box with the hp rim flattened out like they had been tapped with a hammer.

Do everything possible to SAVE YOUR LIFE.

An eyeball hit with a 22 is better than a loud miss with a 44 magnum.

 

[kerstingm]

We just picked up some Hornady HTP hollow points for home use Self-Defense. I hope I never have to find out how they work or what the law says about using the reloads.

 

[jg1967]

My CCW permit instructor recommended not to, his explanation was that factory self defense ammo has ballistic data available that will help CSI figure out who shot whom from what distance etc etc. Since that's not available for reloads things could get a bit muddled and it may for example look like you shot from a much farther distance than it actually happened.

 

[kerstingm]

My CCW permit instructor recommended not to, his explanation was that factory self defense ammo has ballistic data available that will help CSI figure out who shot whom from what distance etc etc. Since that's not available for reloads things could get a bit muddled and it may for example look like you shot from a much farther distance than it actually happened.

I understand where your instructor is coming from when he said this, but if you follow the reloading data there is ballistic data on the load already from the bullet and or case manufactures. I agree it would just be better to use the factory ammo kust to save on any issues. For every issue said to say you can use them, there is another issue that says you shouldn't use them. I guess we can just say it is a personal choice.

 

[BC1]

I'm sure this subject has been kicked around for years. I just though it needed another kick.
I reload. I mainly use my reloaded rounds for target practice, but sometimes I'll carry them.
IF the reloaded round is built exactly to the manufacturer's spec., why would there be any kind of legal entangelment if I was engaged in a situation where I had to defend my or my loved one's lives and the bad guy is dispatched? I've heard that a prosecuting lawyer could claim that the rounds were loaded to specifically do excessive harm...well, hell yes!
Have any of you been engaged in a conversation like this?

Why take a chance? At least that's how I feel about it.

I understand the "what if" you are referring to I just think it's unnecessary. Like Doc said, it is theoretical with no case law to support it. And with that being the case why would you limit your options on a theoretical concept?

I was able to find some cases on this issue. (Link Removed)

Mas Ayoob reported on a number of cases where legal problems were encountered. Very interesting how things get twisted by prosecutors.

 

[Caribou]

Mas Ayoob makes a lot of money as an expert witness. If he tells me to purchase my carry ammo I choose to follow his advice. I believe that my home rolled is of excellent quality. I am sure that is true of the great majority of the hand loaders here. Rest assured that if I am on your jury the ammo you used will not be counted against you.

I sat on a jury in a murder trial. That man should never have been arrested let alone charged. He was a hero for what he did but the prosecutor wanted a murder conviction to celebrate. During deliberation we discussed whether there was a way that we could charge the prosecutor.

A few bucks for factory ammo once in awhile is cheap insurance. I doubt that they would prosecute me because I had made the ammo in my gun. They would, however, use everything at their disposal to convict whether it was pertinent or not. As mentioned above there might be a problem determining whether you story was accurate with your home made ammo. Do as you wish, I will deny them this nail for my coffin.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Mas Ayoob makes a lot of money as an expert witness.

Barack Obama makes $400,000 per year as President.

 

[jg1967]

Mas Ayoob makes a lot of money as an expert witness. If he tells me to purchase my carry ammo I choose to follow his advice. I believe that my home rolled is of excellent quality. I am sure that is true of the great majority of the hand loaders here. Rest assured that if I am on your jury the ammo you used will not be counted against you.

I sat on a jury in a murder trial. That man should never have been arrested let alone charged. He was a hero for what he did but the prosecutor wanted a murder conviction to celebrate. During deliberation we discussed whether there was a way that we could charge the prosecutor.

A few bucks for factory ammo once in awhile is cheap insurance. I doubt that they would prosecute me because I had made the ammo in my gun. They would, however, use everything at their disposal to convict whether it was pertinent or not. As mentioned above there might be a problem determining whether you story was accurate with your home made ammo. Do as you wish, I will deny them this nail for my coffin.

Plus one on prosecuting the prosecution.

 

[NDPendant]

Hate to confuscate the issue...

What about those of us who cast or swage our ammo before we reload. Thoughts?

 

[cmhbob]

I think reloads are going to be more of an issue in civil suits than criminal trials. "Preponderance of the evidence" in a civil suit is much lower than the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard of a criminal case.

I agree with the idea of carrying a load that the cops carry. Very hard to disagree with that. If it's bad for me, then it's bad for them.

I'll happily train with reloads all day long. But the only ammo issues I've ever had in 20+ years of shooting were from reloads. I won't carry them as defense rounds unless I have to.

 

[NavyLCDR]

What about those of us who cast or swage our ammo before we reload. Thoughts?

Wear gloves and a surgical mask when handling lead to reduce your exposure.

 

[sgtbill]

I have reloaded my own for over 40 year's but I still carry factory loads in my carry weapon. I refuse to give some lameass Prosecutor any more ammo to throw at me and a jury that most likely has NO knowledge about ammunition or handloads. I spent over 25 year's dealing with many Prosecutors and many shooting cases and I would not let them have any piece of me If I could keep them from it.
Bill

 

[Raider-3]

I'm sure this subject has been kicked around for years. I just though it needed another kick.
I reload. I mainly use my reloaded rounds for target practice, but sometimes I'll carry them.
IF the reloaded round is built exactly to the manufacturer's spec., why would there be any kind of legal entangelment if I was engaged in a situation where I had to defend my or my loved one's lives and the bad guy is dispatched? I've heard that a prosecuting lawyer could claim that the rounds were loaded to specifically do excessive harm...well, hell yes!
Have any of you been engaged in a conversation like this?

Mass Ayoop says for personal protection use manufactured not reloads

 

[Stan45]

I have talked to lawyers and my son is a lawyer, there is not any case law for use of reloaded ammo.
In the state I live in we have Castle Doctrine you can use deadly force as long as you are legaly there and deadly force is justified. That may mean with a firearm with factory ammo or reloaded ammo or a shovel or an ice pick. And in this state that I'm in the law states you can not be prosecuted.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

When the top experts in a specific field advise something, rational persons should adhere to their advice.

Only current fresh factory loaded ammo should be used for any self defense situation.

 

[Bob in Bristol]

I have to agree with Punch, I have been reloading since the early 90`s (the Clinton gun ban era), and have fired 1000`s of rounds through my Ruger revolvers (GP100-Super Redhawk) and pistol (P90), with not one miss fire or jam. Every round I fired over my chronograph was as consistant as any factory round I tested. If you use good components (stored properly), good reloading equipment, learn what your doing, and take your time, your reloads will be as reliable and accurate as anything you will buy off the shelf.

 

[boens357]

[/Quote]
I must be doing something wrong. My handloads, once I have worked-up a specific load, have always been more reliable and accurate than any factory ammo I have ever shot. I do handload my self-defense carry rounds more carefully than range ammo, but how hard is it to triple check every step when making up a batch of 11 rounds? Does the ammunition factory weigh each powder charge on a digital scale checked with a check weight before and after a batch of 11 rounds? Does the ammunition factory hand check the proper seating of every primer in each piece of brass? Does the ammunition factory measure the OAL of each round produced? Does the ammunition factory visually inspect each powder charge for detectable problems with the powder? Does the ammunition factory visually inspect each and every piece of empty brass for foriegn debris before loading? I'll bet the answer to each and every one of those questions is no. But there is no reason for the handloader not to when making up a batch of 11 rounds for self-defense carry.[/QUOTE]

+1 - This!

 

[radartech]

Ok.. I have read through the post here.. and here is my dime worth of comments (inflation you know!!!)

1. Factory is more reliable---
Well this depends on how much you paid for it and true quality...
2. hand loaded is unreliable
In the past 3 months I have had a friend load 1200 rounds for me.
I just haven't gotten my gear yet!
ALL of which has been PERFECT on the pistol range... USPSA matches.
of the ~200 factory loads--
2 rounds did not cycle the weapon..
1 round did not fire at all
1 round fired, cycled but couldn't eject..Stovepipe (NO IT WASN'T a LIMP WRIST!)
Now the loader has been loading for 15+ years...
3. Powder controlled recoil !!!!
In a tense situation I think every controllable element should be handled..
My friend loads with a ~755 +/- 5 FPS standard.. we have chroned the ammo on 4 different guns and it is consistent with rounds from separate runs.. Monday Wednesday.. 2 weeks later..

YES.. I have factory loaded ammo... yes I bought BIG $$ for SD..
But once we get my press all setup and running I'll likely load some too...


I agree with the progressive press statement above..
I saw one guy who had a progressive and out of 10 rounds the chrono showed them to swing 35-50 FPS in the 10 round test fire...

SO a poor reloader is bad... but just like everything else in life.. you have to be careful to not chracterize...


Later,
J