Two Different Cities, Same Ol' Police State

[vernsimpson]

None of this gives a LEO the right to point his firearm at me during a traffic stop. A LEO that breaks the law is no LEO anymore. He just became another thug.

Yes, CNN and the race baiters have created this situation in Dallas the same way they did in other cities before. It was just a matter of time.

You are missing the point! I did not say it was lawful! The race baiters, from obummer down, have stoked the fire and now all LEOs have a BIG target on their backs. How many cops have been killed doing a routine traffic stop?
I would advise everyone to be VERY polite and make no sudden or reaching moves in ANY LEO encounter. They are all going to be on edge now, I know I would be if I was a LEO!
I have a Grandson who is going to school because he wants to be a cop. I hope my daughter, her husband and I can get him to pick another career!!!!!

 

[mikestone967]

The American gun owner and the NRA will be blamed for sure.

Ouch! Quite painfully true though.. On CNN, they are already trying to question the weapons used and how they got them.
Can't be anyone else's fault but Bush and the NRA ;P


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[Rhino]

The officer had his firearm drawn on a traffic stop. Why?

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Philander Castile notified the officer that he had a carry permit and was armed.

That's why. That's why we're trying to get rid of the notification requirement in Ohio. Notifying the officer serves no good purpose. It drives the tension level up dramatically, which makes mistakes far more likely. Of course the way the system is now, if they run your plates, they'll know the registered owner has a carry license anyway.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Of course the way the system is now, if they run your plates, they'll know the registered owner has a carry license anyway.

And as soon as the officer determines that the registered owner is the person they have stopped, to any rational and sane officer that should reduce their tension and apprehension rather than increase it. They have confirmation from the state that the person stopped has passed a background check already. But not all officers are rational and sane.

 

[bofh]

Ouch! Quite painfully true though.. On CNN, they are already trying to question the weapons used and how they got them.
Can't be anyone else's fault but Bush and the NRA ;P

And so it starts again: Link Removed. Never let a serious crisis go to waste.

 

[BluesStringer]

Should probably start a new thread on this one.

Thank you.

 

[Blueshell]

One of these days someone is going to actually and legitimately defend themselves against these murderous swine, and be legitimately judged as justified in so doing. Not today though.

WARNING: Graphic images to follow, as well as language warning, so probably NSFW either. This will take two posts that I intend to count as one OP, since only one video can be embedded per post. First up (or I should say, "First down and soon-to-be-six-feet-under"), Alton Sterling being tackled and killed by Baton Rouge, LA cops on 7/5/2016:

I posted only the raw video sans any news or editorialists' comments for now. There are several hours' worth of commentary to be had over this killing, plus members here can say whatever they want to say about it based on only the video, which is the basis for all other commentary to begin with. There is also at least one other cell phone video available. The one above was the first one that made it into the public domain, so that's the one I went with. The other cell phone vid that I've seen is shot from a little closer to the incident and the video quality is better, but starts after the taser pops can be heard and the initial tackle by the cops. The one above shows the most of the incident that I've seen. Others may emerge soon.

Even though I highly suspect that these two cops will suffer no consequences commensurate with the level of depravity shown in this killing, I will see it as cold-blooded murder no matter what anyone else says about it. I wish I could say that I was confident that others here will see it similarly, but I can't because I'm not confident at all that myriad excuses for these killers won't be forthcoming shortly. Perhaps the next post will highlight another killing by cops where the victim is a little more relatable to a forum dedicated to (mostly) legal and safe concealed carry issues. We'll see.....

This was clearly murder.

 

[Blueshell]

IF I was a LEO and with all the CRAP that Black Lives Matter, Sharpton, Jesse and all the rest of the race industry has been spewing I would have my gun out at every traffic stop!

How many cops have to get killed before people start telling Black Lives Matter to stop with all the crap calling for cops to die!!!!

We have to many cop haters on this site!!!

Two LEOs in Dallas were just shot! Wonder what bummer will have to say about them.

When are folks going to get it right and start hunting down and executing cops who get away with this?

 

[Reba]

When are folks going to get it right and start hunting down and executing cops who get away with this?

Vigilantism is not the way to "get it right."

 

[Blueshell]

Vigilantism is not the way to "get it right."

I respect your opinion on the matter.

 

[Rhino]

This was clearly murder.

You are clearly letting emotion override logic. That video doesn't even come close to showing everything that happened. Nor did the other video I saw. Why did the cops yell that Sterling had a gun? What did he do to prompt them to say that? Did he try to draw a gun? Did he actually draw a gun? These are things you can't see in those videos, and you can't possibly know what else may have happened to prompt the actions of the officers. And after the countless times we've seen how incredibly stupid it is to rush to judgment based on scant or partial evidence, why are so many people still rushing as fast as they can? This was not clearly murder. The only thing clear about this is that we clearly can't see everything that happened. Oh! I'm sorry. There is something else that's clear. We clearly have an overabundance of people who can't resist being Monday morning quarterbacks.

 

[bofh]

The second video of the Alton Sterling shooting may answer some of your questions.

 

[Blueshell]

You are clearly letting emotion override logic. That video doesn't even come close to showing everything that happened. Nor did the other video I saw. Why did the cops yell that Sterling had a gun? What did he do to prompt them to say that? Did he try to draw a gun? Did he actually draw a gun? These are things you can't see in those videos, and you can't possibly know what else may have happened to prompt the actions of the officers. And after the countless times we've seen how incredibly stupid it is to rush to judgment based on scant or partial evidence, why are so many people still rushing as fast as they can? This was not clearly murder. The only thing clear about this is that we clearly can't see everything that happened. Oh! I'm sorry. There is something else that's clear. We clearly have an overabundance of people who can't resist being Monday morning quarterbacks.

The guy was pinned.

Let's say he had a gun. Let's say he was reaching for it. You just....remove the gun. Maybe brake a couple fingers if you have to.

This was murder.

 

[Blueshell]

The second video of the Alton Sterling shooting may answer some of your questions.

Of course the camera pans away at the part we need to see. Useless video.

 

[BluesStringer]

Of course the camera pans away at the part we need to see. Useless video.

The last 10 or so seconds would answer at least one of Rhino's questions, assuming that what the cop removes from Sterling's pocket is a gun. Whether it is or it ain't though, it's fairly clear that he was the one who yelled, "He's got a gun," and he returned just seconds after the shooting and went straight for the pocket he thought he felt it in. There are at least a couple of other videos out there, but the above one is from the closest distance and does show one of the cops removing something from a pocket, on which the cop has to open the flap to get at BTW.

Blues

 

[BluesStringer]

The last 10 or so seconds would answer at least one of Rhino's questions, assuming that what the cop removes from Sterling's pocket is a gun. Whether it is or it ain't though, it's fairly clear that he was the one who yelled, "He's got a gun," and he returned just seconds after the shooting and went straight for the pocket he thought he felt it in. There are at least a couple of other videos out there, but the above one is from the closest distance and does show one of the cops removing something from a pocket, on which the cop has to open the flap to get at BTW.

Blues

I just re-watched the video in full-screen, paused, and clicking forward about 2 - 4 frames at a time. It looks like the cop removes something from the pocket, but I sure can't make out a gun. If it is a gun, it's gotta be like a Beretta Tomcat or similar - very small - because all that can be seen as the cop pulls his hand away and backs off out of frame is a sliver of black or dark color that is impossible to make out what it is. It could even be nothing more than a shadow, which, if that's the case, means the pocket was empty(???).

Blues

 

[nmpops]

It would be nice if just once people would stop passing judgement on the police before their departments and or the FBI has had a chance to complete their investigation. They are entitled to Due Process.

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[BluesStringer]

It would be nice if just once people would stop passing judgement on the police before their departments and or the FBI has had a chance to complete their investigation. They are entitled to Due Process.

Certainly no more entitled than the two people being discussed in this thread that they killed. The difference? The killers were sworn to provide, protect and defend the due process rights of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile, as well as a bunch of other rights that can reasonably be concluded were violated in wholesale fashion. I certainly have no obligation or duty to give them any consideration in that regard before forming and/or expressing opinions about the events they were involved in. But you needn't worry anyway. They'll get tons more "due process" than any non-sworn citizen could ever dream of getting for the same actions. If any of 'em even make it to trial, I'll be amazed, and even moreso if any of 'em get convicted of a major felony, and beyond being surprised/amazed for a *conviction* of Murder 1 or 2, I'd probably go into full-on cardiac arrest if the state-employed judge actually gave them a sentence commensurate with what a non-sworn citizen would get for the same crime. And even if that whole line of fantasy came true, Alton Sterling and Philando Castile will still be laying six feet under without a shred of due process having put them there.

"Entitled" is the exact right word to use when it comes to cops expecting not to be held to account for their state-sponsored killings, I'll give ya that one.

Blues

 

[Rhino]

Let's say.... Let's say.... Maybe....
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This was murder.

Let's say and maybe means you don't know the facts. Tacking "This was murder" onto the end after making it obvious you don't know the facts makes you a lynch mob.
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Of course the camera pans away at the part we need to see. Useless video.

Exactly my point. You have tons of supposition, prejudice and innuendo, but you freely acknowledge you don't have the necessary facts. So congratulations. You've now put yourself on a par with the KKK gangs who used to lynch black people from trees in the middle of the night.

 

[BluesStringer]

Let's say and maybe means you don't know the facts. Tacking "This was murder" onto the end after making it obvious you don't know the facts makes you a lynch mob.

A mob of one with a keyboard? From probably at least hundreds, if not thousands, of miles away from the incident? Really? Totally absurd statement.
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So congratulations. You've now put yourself on a par with the KKK gangs who used to lynch black people from trees in the middle of the night.

Interesting that you would not see the irony in using that analogy with this incident. Those cops are quite analogous to murderers belonging to the KKK, with one glaring exception; they'll almost assuredly suffer no consequences, or only exceedingly minor ones if any at all. SMFH.

Blues