To carry hot or not?

walknotinfear said:
Please do not disrespect law enforcement officers. They may not be GrandMasters in the USPSA but they are masters in their careers. Just like any profession or hobby (yes shooting is a hobby) some are better than others. I am a real good shooter on the range and spent many hours at USPSA matches to gain better speed and accuracy. I was also in the armed services that taught me other tactics and techniques as firearms goes. I also spent time as a law enforcement officer that taught me other aspects in weapons (long gun, shot gun, handgun) and I am also a NRA pistol instructor.

That said I will be the first to say I am no expert in any of the above mentioned. I do take offense to some person saying law enforcement are basically amatures when it comes to firearms. You have to step in the shoes as a street cop to understand why I take offense to that. Cops spend many hours of training and not all of it is in firearms. I would stand next to any cop as my back up before any gun hoe guy on this site who claims to be a better shot than the average cop. Why?, because that cop will know when and how to use deadly force and the proper levels of force by following the use of force continuum set by his agency. Some guy that spends thousands of hours shooting a peice of paper or metal plate doesn't have a clue what to do when that target is moving, running or the target (suspect) is shooting back at you or is trying to stab you.

So please reframe from talking cr-p about law enforcement shooting or their level of proficiency. They may not win a pistol match but they will do the job that only a handful on this message board have actually done.
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I'm not bashing cops by any means. That's the line of work I'm planning on going in to. As a matter of fact, I've cleared all my background checks and interviews and everything and have been hired, just waiting on them to tell me when to start. So I definitely have respect for the field. My point was that just because they carry a gun does not make them experts with them and put them on a "do as I say and not as I do" type basis. Carrying with a round in the chamber, as this thread is about, does not require super extensive training. It requires a little common sense and some basic knowledge about gun safety.

But as for cops always knowing the proper level of force to use, all I can say to that is this: http://www.scpr.org/news/2013/06/07/37624/trial-set-for-ex-fullerton-cops-in-homeless-beatin/

One of my passions for law enforcement comes from the numerous encounters that I and others that I know have had with law enforcement officers where the officer just can't handle the pressure of the job and takes it out on the "suspect" he is dealing with. I've never been the victim of physical abuse by an officer, but I have been arrested because of an officer's ego, and the fact that he didn't want to be proven wrong even though he was. I was 19 years old with a pistol in the center console of my truck. Nothing I was doing was wrong, but the officer swore up and down that you had to be 21 to be in possession of a handgun, which is not the case. So I want to go into the field and hopefully bring some level headedness to it. Hopefully...
 
kwimby said:
Yeah, you'd think people that spend so much time and energy arguing fallacious positions on the Internet would be better at it, too.

Shrug.
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Ok, we get it, you just learned all the different ways you can use the word "fallacy" and you're wanting to show off. Good job. Consider this your pat on the back. Now go away.
 
AndeyHall said:
I'm not bashing cops by any means. That's the line of work I'm planning on going in to. As a matter of fact, I've cleared all my background checks and interviews and everything and have been hired, just waiting on them to tell me when to start. So I definitely have respect for the field. My point was that just because they carry a gun does not make them experts with them and put them on a "do as I say and not as I do" type basis. Carrying with a round in the chamber, as this thread is about, does not require super extensive training. It requires a little common sense and some basic knowledge about gun safety.

But as for cops always knowing the proper level of force to use, all I can say to that is this: Trial set for ex-Fullerton cops in homeless beating case | 89.3 KPCC

One of my passions for law enforcement comes from the numerous encounters that I and others that I know have had with law enforcement officers where the officer just can't handle the pressure of the job and takes it out on the "suspect" he is dealing with. I've never been the victim of physical abuse by an officer, but I have been arrested because of an officer's ego, and the fact that he didn't want to be proven wrong even though he was. I was 19 years old with a pistol in the center console of my truck. Nothing I was doing was wrong, but the officer swore up and down that you had to be 21 to be in possession of a handgun, which is not the case. So I want to go into the field and hopefully bring some level headedness to it. Hopefully...
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I do not and have never hired cops but have sat on a few oral boards in the past. How do you expect to get a job as a cop with an arrest record? Was that arrest wiped off your records (expunged)? And even if the arrest record was expunged you are going to have a difficult time getting hired because of that arrest. It may not be a disqualifying issue if the arrest was expunged but you will have to disclose it during the application process. I will bet a cup of coffee that the panel members will weigh heavy against you for that arrest and they will fail you after the interview. Just my opinion.
 
AndyHall,

Please don't refer do a news article about a cop on trial. Every profession has its bad apples. What surprises me is you want to become a police officer but than you speak negatively about the them on this message board.
 
walknotinfear said:
AndyHall,

Please don't refer do a news article about a cop on trial. Every profession has its bad apples. What surprises me is you want to become a police officer but than you speak negatively about the them on this message board.
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Perfect example of the "brotherhood of the badge." When a fellow officer does something wrong, do everything you can to cover it up and ignore it, instead of dealing with the bad apples. This is the major reason that the general public has lost some respect for LE.
 
walknotinfear said:
AndyHall,

Please don't refer do a news article about a cop on trial. Every profession has its bad apples. What surprises me is you want to become a police officer but than you speak negatively about the them on this message board.
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Not to answer for him...but in his last post he explained exactly why he wants to join the police force which correlates with his negative views of them...

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
 
walknotinfear said:
I do not and have never hired cops but have sat on a few oral boards in the past. How do you expect to get a job as a cop with an arrest record? Was that arrest wiped off your records (expunged)? And even if the arrest record was expunged you are going to have a difficult time getting hired because of that arrest. It may not be a disqualifying issue if the arrest was expunged but you will have to disclose it during the application process. I will bet a cup of coffee that the panel members will weigh heavy against you for that arrest and they will fail you after the interview. Just my opinion.
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The entire thing was completely expunged. I have disclosed it in my interview and like I said, I HAVE been hired. Having been arrested isn't that bad. People who do the hiring know that not everyone is perfect and people make mistakes. The guy that teaches my Sociology of Law Enforcement class is a Lt. who does all the hiring for the county next to us and I've spoken with him about it. He said as long as you're honest, it's a non-issue.
 
AndeyHall said:
The entire thing was completely expunged. I have disclosed it in my interview and like I said, I HAVE been hired. Having been arrested isn't that bad. People who do the hiring know that not everyone is perfect and people make mistakes. The guy that teaches my Sociology of Law Enforcement class is a Lt. who does all the hiring for the county next to us and I've spoken with him about it. He said as long as you're honest, it's a non-issue.
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Conrads on getting hired. Do me a favor. Get back to us after you spend a year on the road and we will see if your thoughts about the profession change. You as a new cop will not be able to save the world or change anything in a department. There will be bad apples and cops who go over the top and maybe bend the rules a bit. Some advice, your first year on the job keep negative comments to yourself about other officers in your department. Once they see you are only looking out for yourself, that you are trying to clean up the streets of bad guys and bad cops, you will find yourself all alone wishing you didn't p-ss off your fellow cops. I thought the same way years ago and quickly found out differently and fast. Once you are on your own just do the job the best you can without getting killed. You will see the bad cops but just do your job, I am not saying lie but don't go out of your way and stab a fellow officer in the back because in the long run you will only hurt yourself.
 
walknotinfear said:
Conrads on getting hired. Do me a favor. Get back to us after you spend a year on the road and we will see if your thoughts about the profession change. You as a new cop will not be able to save the world or change anything in a department. There will be bad apples and cops who go over the top and maybe bend the rules a bit. Some advice, your first year on the job keep negative comments to yourself about other officers in your department. Once they see you are only looking out for yourself, that you are trying to clean up the streets of bad guys and bad cops, you will find yourself all alone wishing you didn't p-ss off your fellow cops. I thought the same way years ago and quickly found out differently and fast. Once you are on your own just do the job the best you can without getting killed. You will see the bad cops but just do your job, I am not saying lie but don't go out of your way and stab a fellow officer in the back because in the long run you will only hurt yourself.
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I think the term is "Brotherhood in Blue". But yeah I kinda figured that. I mean being a bit over the top is one thing. I just don't think I'll be able to sit back if I see something just terribly unethical. There's only so much one's conscience can bear.
 
In the Chicago area, pro-carry owners made the argument for fanny pack carry, you're only 6 seconds from safety - unzip your pack, pull out and insert your mag, work the slide, and come on target. I understand that they're talking about off body carry, but a lot can happen in 6 seconds.

Similarly, it still takes a couple of seconds for you to draw your firearm, work the slide (assuming you don't fumble with it because of panic, which adds seconds), and then bring it on target. Additional seconds lead to injury and death.

If you're going to carry, carry hot.
 
walknotinfear said:
Conrads on getting hired. Do me a favor. Get back to us after you spend a year on the road and we will see if your thoughts about the profession change. You as a new cop will not be able to save the world or change anything in a department. There will be bad apples and cops who go over the top and maybe bend the rules a bit. Some advice, your first year on the job keep negative comments to yourself about other officers in your department. Once they see you are only looking out for yourself, that you are trying to clean up the streets of bad guys and bad cops, you will find yourself all alone wishing you didn't p-ss off your fellow cops. I thought the same way years ago and quickly found out differently and fast. Once you are on your own just do the job the best you can without getting killed. You will see the bad cops but just do your job, I am not saying lie but don't go out of your way and stab a fellow officer in the back because in the long run you will only hurt yourself.
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Have you considered contributing to the "This is why people hate the police" thread? You probably won't be welcomed with opened arms, but you could go a long ways in addressing the topic of the thread in a very easy-to-understand way.

Blues
 
walknotinfear said:
I will look at the thread thanks. I don't hate cops, firefighters, EMTs or any other position that generally helps people. The only group I hate are criminals.
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No offense intended, but...umm...























712657d1337394705-need-some-help-id.jpg
 
walknotinfear said:
I do not and have never hired cops but have sat on a few oral boards in the past. How do you expect to get a job as a cop with an arrest record? Was that arrest wiped off your records (expunged)? And even if the arrest record was expunged you are going to have a difficult time getting hired because of that arrest. It may not be a disqualifying issue if the arrest was expunged but you will have to disclose it during the application process. I will bet a cup of coffee that the panel members will weigh heavy against you for that arrest and they will fail you after the interview. Just my opinion.
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Just spoke with my aunt this afternoon who works in the records department of our county courthouse and she said that expungements are a complete destruction of all records, and that the judges that work out of that courthouse have instructed them to tell anyone who has an expungement that they DO NOT have to disclose it to ANY employer after that point, even if the employer is gov't. So I'm not sure if you just wanted to be Johnny Bad-News or what, but I'm pretty sure what you said was false. But one of my professors is who does the hiring for the county next to ours that I intend on working for when I graduate, so I'll double check with him. But another one of my professors is the liaison between Clemson and several federal law enforcement agencies and she was saying that if you have had a DUI or drug charge, as long as it hasn't been in the last 3 years, then they'll take you on. So I think you're blowing my little arrest way out of proportion sir.
 
AndeyHall said:
Just spoke with my aunt this afternoon who works in the records department of our county courthouse and she said that expungements are a complete destruction of all records, and that the judges that work out of that courthouse have instructed them to tell anyone who has an expungement that they DO NOT have to disclose it to ANY employer after that point, even if the employer is gov't. So I'm not sure if you just wanted to be Johnny Bad-News or what, but I'm pretty sure what you said was false. But one of my professors is who does the hiring for the county next to ours that I intend on working for when I graduate, so I'll double check with him. But another one of my professors is the liaison between Clemson and several federal law enforcement agencies and she was saying that if you have had a DUI or drug charge, as long as it hasn't been in the last 3 years, then they'll take you on. So I think you're blowing my little arrest way out of proportion sir.
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Good luck trying to pass the polygraph if you try to hide the fact you had an arrest. You may be correct but most federal agencies and police departments have polygraphs tests. I will bet you a cup of coffee you will show deception in the polygraph when you say NO when the question is asked if you were ever arrested in the past. There is a 5 percent chance you could lie on the the polygraph and pass but that is a heck of a way to start a law enforcement career by lying. Also some federal agencies require clearances to work as a federal law enforcement officer. Most special agents (FBI, SS, DEA, FAMs) have top secret clearances. Good luck lying to the investigator for a federal top secret clearance and see what happens. Even if you do make it on by not disclosing the arrest you better believe they will find out. I remember 9 agents that I was hired on back in 2002 who were fired after being on the job for lying on the paperwork for a TS clearance. I was shocked they worked for close to a year before their security clearances were revoked. I guess they thought the Feds would not find out but they did.

So your best bet is to not have your candor questioned and be truthful about everything.

PS. Federal agents who hold TS clearances. They go back ten years for the background investigation and they are investigated every 5 years while on the job. So tell your professor he is wrong.
 
walknotinfear said:
Good luck trying to pass the polygraph if you try to hide the fact you had an arrest. You may be correct but most federal agencies and police departments have polygraphs tests. I will bet you a cup of coffee you will show deception in the polygraph when you say NO when the question is asked if you were ever arrested in the past. There is a 5 percent chance you could lie on the the polygraph and pass but that is a heck of a way to start a law enforcement career by lying. Also some federal agencies require clearances to work as a federal law enforcement officer. Most special agents (FBI, SS, DEA, FAMs) have top secret clearances. Good luck lying to the investigator for a federal top secret clearance and see what happens. Even if you do make it on by not disclosing the arrest you better believe they will find out. I remember 9 agents that I was hired on back in 2002 who were fired after being on the job for lying on the paperwork for a TS clearance. I was shocked they worked for close to a year before their security clearances were revoked. I guess they thought the Feds would not find out but they did.

So your best bet is to not have your candor questioned and be truthful about everything.

PS. Federal agents who hold TS clearances. They go back ten years for the background investigation and they are investigated every 5 years while on the job. So tell your professor he is wrong.
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I'm not saying I would lie. But any application you fill out asks "have you ever been CONVICTED of a crime?" I have not therefore there is nothing to disclose. If they ask, have I ever been arrested, then I will say yes, because anything else is a lie. But being arrested and being convicted are 2 different things. An arrest should mean nothing. There are dipshits out there who don't know the law and arrest people all the time for things they only THINK are illegal (such as my case). Why should that arrest ruin the rest of my life?

You come across as having the same attitude that a lot of cops I've met have, in that you treat any and everyone as though hey are a criminal and below you. Condescension is something I can't stand!
 
AndeyHall said:
I'm not saying I would lie. But any application you fill out asks "have you ever been CONVICTED of a crime?" I have not therefore there is nothing to disclose. If they ask, have I ever been arrested, then I will say yes, because anything else is a lie. But being arrested and being convicted are 2 different things. An arrest should mean nothing. There are dipshits out there who don't know the law and arrest people all the time for things they only THINK are illegal (such as my case). Why should that arrest ruin the rest of my life?

You come across as having the same attitude that a lot of cops I've met have, in that you treat any and everyone as though hey are a criminal and below you. Condescension is something I can't stand!
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You must have some idea that we live in a perfect world. If you think for a second that someone will not look differently at an applicant who has an arrest versus one that has not been arrested any differently just because that arrest was expunged, than you have no idea what type of world we live in.

I have been on oral boards and you better believe after you walked out of the interview the panel members would talk about the arrest and than just either fail you or give you a lower score. It doesn't matter that the arrest was wrong or if it was expunged. A panel interview is like a jury, if they don't like you than you lose.

But why are you even debating this, I thought you were already hired on, so what is the issue?

Also no one is beneath me. I treat everyone the same. I am beneath only one person and that is the man upstairs.
 
Watch this video and tell me when the guy would have had a chance to let go of the other guys gun hand to rack the slide.

I carry chambered

Link Removed
 
XD40scinNC said:
Watch this video and tell me when the guy would have had a chance to let go of the other guys gun hand to rack the slide.

I carry chambered

Link Removed
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That was awesome. Cashier was lucky though. BG got too close before drawing, and drew slowly. Cashier probably could've out-drawn him if BG had been out of arm's reach still though, as slow as he was. Probably not a tactically sound idea to have a lit cigarette to deal with at the same time either. LOL Congrats to the vet/cashier. Great decisions from beginning to end. And yeah, including the decision to carry with one in the pipe!

Blues
 
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