SYG terminology for almost 100 yrs. in the courts

[Bttbbob]

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The best known example of this is Brown v. United States (1921) where the U.S Supreme Court held that there was no duty to retreat in a legitimate self-defense case.

Here is an excerpt about this case from Wikipedia “if a man reasonably believes that he is in immediate danger of death or grievous bodily harm from his assailant he may stand his ground and that if he kills him he has not exceed the bounds of lawful self-defense.” Wow, they were using the term “stand your ground” in 1921. Further, Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote (also from Wikipedia) “Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife. Therefore, in this Court, at least, it is not a condition of immunity that one in that situation should pause to consider whether a reasonable man might not think it possible to fly with safety or to disable his assailant rather than to kill him.” And there is that SOB the reasonable man again.

 

[kelcarry]

Link Removed

The best known example of this is Brown v. United States (1921) where the U.S Supreme Court held that there was no duty to retreat in a legitimate self-defense case.

Here is an excerpt about this case from Wikipedia “if a man reasonably believes that he is in immediate danger of death or grievous bodily harm from his assailant he may stand his ground and that if he kills him he has not exceed the bounds of lawful self-defense.” Wow, they were using the term “stand your ground” in 1921. Further, Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote (also from Wikipedia) “Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife. Therefore, in this Court, at least, it is not a condition of immunity that one in that situation should pause to consider whether a reasonable man might not think it possible to fly with safety or to disable his assailant rather than to kill him.” And there is that SOB the reasonable man again.

When you read the quote from Justice Holmes, the words "in the presence of an uplifted knife" appear. The words "popcorn in the face", the words "black teens in an SUV with loud music", the words "a drunk yelling outside my home" do not appear---that, to me, is the crux of the problem---these are not "immediate danger", another term used in Justice Holmes quotes. Some of these "presunptions of imminent danger" are a smokescreen for individuals and their attorneys to literally get away with murder. I have no problem with SYG--I do have a problem with the way it seems to have been prostituted and wrongly and deceptively interpreted in some cases.

 

[BluesStringer]

When you read the quote from Justice Holmes, the words "in the presence of an uplifted knife" appear. The words "popcorn in the face", the words "black teens in an SUV with loud music", the words "a drunk yelling outside my home" do not appear---that, to me, is the crux of the problem---these are not "immediate danger", another term used in Justice Holmes quotes. Some of these "presunptions of imminent danger" are a smokescreen for individuals and their attorneys to literally get away with murder. I have no problem with SYG--I do have a problem with the way it seems to have been prostituted and wrongly and deceptively interpreted in some cases.

I'm not sure about the "drunk yelling outside my home" case, but the other two were only "prostituted" by the perps themselves. One has been prosecuted to a hung jury, which the DA says will be retried, and the other (popcorn'ed retired cop) is awaiting trial. If there are gun owners saying that either of those two cases should be dismissed on the basis of SYG laws, I haven't seen 'em, and it's obvious that prosecutors aren't dissuaded at all from pursuing cases if they think they were illegitimately asserted by defendants to be SYG cases.

BTW, you say above that their attorneys supposedly "literally get away with murder" if they defend someone who does manage to successfully defend on a SYG plea. I'm no particular fan of lawyers, but they do perform one of the most obvious constitutional protections against government abuses of authority, so you may want to rethink (or rephrase) that.

Blues