Since when are knives considered less lethal?

[NYMike]

I see a lot of knife discussion in here as if it is a less lethal alternative to firearms. I thought less lethal referred to items like gasses, stun guns, kubatons, water cannons, etc...

I know less lethal weapons can be lethal if used improperly or at close ranges let's say for rubber bullets and the like. But in my view there is noting that makes a blade anything but lethal.

 

[roguejesse]

It's not easy, for the average person to kill a someone with a knife. The victims of stab wounds, are usually stabbed multiple times, and die later. Sometimes many hours later. Unless you are familiar with basic anatomy, and trained in the proper use of a knife, with many hours of training. A knife has minimal stopping power against an assailant, when used by a majority of the people. To be an effective weapon, knife strikes must be precise on certain parts of the body. This is usually accomplished with many hours of training.

A good analogy would be; watching a professional boxing match and a street brawl. In a street brawl, there is a short flurry of activity with wild punches. While a professional boxer throws precision punches at specific targets.

 

[Kasper]

well the police see a knife as a lethal weapon and will open fire on you if you don't drop it when told. While a knife if used correctly can kill someone in 3 minutes most don't know or have the skill to use it. The biggest reason why police see a knife as a deadly weapon is due to the fact that when you a stabbed with a knife you run the risk of getting infections and other bacteria that will lead to your death.

If I were to go by your opinion any gun could be considered less then lethal if the person welding it only hits the body parts where one can be shot and still live, ie knee caps, hands. But we all know you would be charged with assault with a deadly weapon.

 

[The_Outlaw]

It's not easy, for the average person to kill a someone with a knife. The victims of stab wounds, are usually stabbed multiple times, and die later. Sometimes many hours later. Unless you are familiar with basic anatomy, and trained in the proper use of a knife, with many hours of training. A knife has minimal stopping power against an assailant, when used by a majority of the people. To be an effective weapon, knife strikes must be precise on certain parts of the body. This is usually accomplished with many hours of training.

A good analogy would be; watching a professional boxing match and a street brawl. In a street brawl, there is a short flurry of activity with wild punches. While a professional boxer throws precision punches at specific targets.

I have to disagree....
Edged weapons are 'extremely dangerous' even in the hands of an untrained bad guy.
NEVER underestimate an angry person with a knife.
Case in point...

 

[bikerbill]

An interesting experience last summer ... my wife and I were heading to Branson for a vacation, got stopped in a rented car in Arkansas ... gave the officer my license and plastic, and told him where my gun was ... he asked me to step out of the car and asked me if I had any other weapons ... I told him I had a folding knife clipped to my pocket -- a 3 1/2 inch one-hander, very sharp. His response amazed me -- "I don't care about knives." He let me keep it where it was, took me into his patrol car and we sat in front while he chatted with me about my gun and where we were going ... got a warning for crossing the curbside white line ... if I'd been a BG, I could easily have eased that knife free and done some damage ... think most officers ignore knives on people they stop?

 

[The_Outlaw]

An interesting experience last summer ... my wife and I were heading to Branson for a vacation, got stopped in a rented car in Arkansas ... gave the officer my license and plastic, and told him where my gun was ... he asked me to step out of the car and asked me if I had any other weapons ... I told him I had a folding knife clipped to my pocket -- a 3 1/2 inch one-hander, very sharp. His response amazed me -- "I don't care about knives." He let me keep it where it was, took me into his patrol car and we sat in front while he chatted with me about my gun and where we were going ... got a warning for crossing the curbside white line ... if I'd been a BG, I could easily have eased that knife free and done some damage ... think most officers ignore knives on people they stop?

Unfortunately the short answer answer is 'yes'.
Most rookie cops do indeed underestimate the lethality of edged weapons.
Another case in point training video.
Old but very good video.

 

[wuzfuz]

This looks like footage from the Caliber Press video, 'Surviving Edged Weapons.' Our department required that we view it, and a form that certified we had seen the video was put in our personnel file. It was an eye-opener.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Not sure where you are reading knives are less lethal. Post up links so we can understand where you are coming from...so far I have only read threads that indicate knives as a lethal alternative or back up.

 

[evergreena3]

NYMike,

Knives *are* less lethal than guns. I know some people are screaming right now, but hear me out...

Lots of things *can* be lethal. Pencils, rocks, cars, cigarettes (eventually), etc. Something being more or less lethal does not mean it cannot actually *be* lethal. So what does "more" lethal mean? Kills someone multiple times? Makes the 'deader'? I would propose the following criteria:

1) Lethal at what distance utilized? A knife is most often lethal when used hand-held. It may be thrown, but the skill involved in killing someone with a thrown knife is higher (you can say how much) than doing so with it in your hand. Bullets, on the other hand, can kill from point blank range all the way out to 2,475 m (thank you, Corporal Harrison).

2) How easy to kill? As it has been mentioned, killing someone with a knife is not simple. You have to be good or lucky to cut the right spot at the right depth to cause a quick death. Else, a trip to the hospital can cure many knife wounds. While gunfire is survivable if you are lucky, it is much easier to kill someone with a gun than a knife. You hear about accidental deaths due to gunfire on the news. How often, by comparison, do you hear of accidental stabbing deaths?

3) How often is it used? According to Gun violence in the United States by state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (I'm not a fan of wiki, but this looks legit), homicides are conducted via guns more often than via knives in 47 of the 50 states (and 10 times more in Louisiana).

4) What other used can it have? Knives have hundreds of uses. They can be used to spread butter and cut a roll, clean a deer, cut a rope, dig a pebble from a shoe, open a package or envelope, cut a steak, or kill animals (including people). Guns...are used to kill animals (including people). I never draw my gun unless it is to fire it. Not threaten, not maim, but kill. This may be a deer or someone breaking into my home. Firing at the range is practice for the kill. Oh, and I guess guns can be used by the ski patroll to safely create preventive avalanches in the mountains.

You may have other criteria to use here, but these speak loudly.
In these regards, guns are "more lethal" than knives.


Jason Seiler

 

[Firefighterchen]

NYMike,

Knives *are* less lethal than guns. I know some people are screaming right now, but hear me out...

Lots of things *can* be lethal. Pencils, rocks, cars, cigarettes (eventually), etc. Something being more or less lethal does not mean it cannot actually *be* lethal. So what does "more" lethal mean? Kills someone multiple times? Makes the 'deader'? I would propose the following criteria:

1) Lethal at what distance utilized? A knife is most often lethal when used hand-held. It may be thrown, but the skill involved in killing someone with a thrown knife is higher (you can say how much) than doing so with it in your hand. Bullets, on the other hand, can kill from point blank range all the way out to 2,475 m (thank you, Corporal Harrison).

2) How easy to kill? As it has been mentioned, killing someone with a knife is not simple. You have to be good or lucky to cut the right spot at the right depth to cause a quick death. Else, a trip to the hospital can cure many knife wounds. While gunfire is survivable if you are lucky, it is much easier to kill someone with a gun than a knife. You hear about accidental deaths due to gunfire on the news. How often, by comparison, do you hear of accidental stabbing deaths?

3) How often is it used? According to Gun violence in the United States by state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (I'm not a fan of wiki, but this looks legit), homicides are conducted via guns more often than via knives in 47 of the 50 states (and 10 times more in Louisiana).

4) What other used can it have? Knives have hundreds of uses. They can be used to spread butter and cut a roll, clean a deer, cut a rope, dig a pebble from a shoe, open a package or envelope, cut a steak, or kill animals (including people). Guns...are used to kill animals (including people). I never draw my gun unless it is to fire it. Not threaten, not maim, but kill. This may be a deer or someone breaking into my home. Firing at the range is practice for the kill. Oh, and I guess guns can be used by the ski patroll to safely create preventive avalanches in the mountains.

You may have other criteria to use here, but these speak loudly.
In these regards, guns are "more lethal" than knives.


Jason Seiler

Playing devils advocate:

1: Most self defense shootings occur within stabbing distances. What makes distance relevant? Would you also believe a handgun is less lethal compared to a .308? Or a .308 less lethal than a .50 BMG? I would not consider either less lethal.

2: I read somewhere 80% of gunshot wound victims survive...not very lethal eh? A 4" knife stuck in someone and moved around will cause a lot more damage than a 9mm punture wound. I would venture to say, an amateur could do a lot more damage with a knife based on luck, then a amateur shooter shooting based on luck. Anyone with experience can inflict deadly wounds with either tool. I do agree anatomy plays a big role, in which case, I believe a baton to be a lethal weapon in someone's hands that aim for the head or neck. A knife doesn't hold that same criteria, and is lethal even if slashing or stabbing appendages and torso shots.

3: Look up statistics in countries that outlaw guns...see how many knives are used to commit murder and armed robbery.

4. Knives do hold other purposes, but a self defense knife, or a knife used with the intent to kill, has its one purpose. To stop the threat, or kill someone else.

I feel, that only using the two catagories: less than lethal and lethal, is the correct way of looking at self defense tools. Knives, to me, are a lethal alternative.

 

[FN1910]

Years ago we had a good many people that lived and worked on our tobacco farm. Most of these fellows were tough and on Saturday night liked to have a good time. I especially respected the opinion of one fellow as he was quited experienced in shooting, cutting, fighting and all sorts of other things from both ends. He had been shot more than once and cut several times. He told me that if ever you want to make sure someone leaves you alone you have to cut him. Shooting or whipping won't do it but if you leave him standing there holding his guts in his hands you will never have to worry about him bothering you again.

I know that people who did not grow up on a southern farm in the 50's like I did will never understand it. At one time we had at least nine different families living on our farm and probably at least 12 of the adult men in those families had been shot or cut at some time. I have never been shot or cut not in a real fight like they commonly had so I respected their opinions on self-defense and how to survive. Some of them carried a gun but all carried a "hawk billed" knife. Ironic thing was that seldom was there a fatality.

 

[wrcandrews]

I have carried a pocket knife for at least the past 50 yrs. I do not consider it a weapon and it really irritates me when some moron says that it is.

 

[clarkje]

I'm an Emt-I. Knives are dangerous for a few reasons. Stab wounds to the chest with even a short blade will puncture a lung, causing a pneumothorax. Can puncture heart, liver causing internal bleeding, as well as a lethal heart arrhythmia. Arteries: carotid, brachial, radial, ulnar, femoral.

 

[clarkje]

Just like tazers are less than lethal. Until you tazer someone with a pre-existing heart condition. Pace maker. And it throws them into V-fib.

 

[jahwarrior72]

There's no such thing as "less" lethal. Either a tool is lethal, or it isn't. I suppose no one gets killed by knives, tire irons, or baseball bats in this country, every day?

The title of this forum has annoyed me for some time. I'm glad it's not just me. A more accurate description for this forum would be the Non-firearm Weapons forum.

 

[wolf_fire]

I see a lot of knife discussion in here as if it is a less lethal alternative to firearms. I thought less lethal referred to items like gasses, stun guns, kubatons, water cannons, etc...

I know less lethal weapons can be lethal if used improperly or at close ranges let's say for rubber bullets and the like. But in my view there is noting that makes a blade anything but lethal.

I knife is lethal and can cause serious bodily injury. This is what gives justification to use your firearm to defend against a knife attack.

Using the logic as stated above, a firearm could be "less than lethal" if you shot them in the foot or didn't use it correctly to stop a threat. That's just rubbish.

 

[Rocketgeezer]

There's no such thing as "less" lethal. Either a tool is lethal, or it isn't. I suppose no one gets killed by knives, tire irons, or baseball bats in this country, every day?

The title of this forum has annoyed me for some time. I'm glad it's not just me. A more accurate description for this forum would be the Non-firearm Weapons forum.

At one time I would agree that knifes are less lethal, but "lethal non firearm" is closer to it, a person could kill another with a golf club, what would happen if one carpenter got pissed at another and wacked him with a 2x4, or if he was a plumber and had a length of cast iron pipe, given the right hit, the golfer, carpenter and pumber may all be dead, just as they may be if shot with a 45

 

[Nightmare45]

Not the weapon, but the mind of the individual wielding the object he intends to commit harm/death with.