It's really unexpected that you guys all believe that the Indians, who were good according to their morals, don't go to hell. Since it's already been discussed that God doesn't favor the people of the 13th century over ours, the tribes that have yet been exposed to the bible should also not be going to hell. No one can say for certain that this isn't possible. They are hidden in remote places. So can we agree that it is possible that there are still people in the world that wouldn't go to hell without haven't read the bible?
Signs of the End of the Age & The Last Generation
- Thread starter Ringo
- Start date
- Status
Relatively sinless?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice_in_Aztec_culture
No booze?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_alcoholic_beverages
No sickness before Europeans?
Health conditions before Columbus: paleopathology of native North Americans
Damn, dude. Read a book sometime.
Sent from my XT1254 using USA Carry mobile app
Ringo
A WATCHMAN
Archaeologist Believes to Have Discovered Location of Biblical Sodom
XD40scinNC
New member
If I were a christian, I would not crow about the treatment of the North American Native people, 10+ million when the first white man landed, and virtually exterminated by 1900 when there were only about 300,000 still alive.
In many instances, the conquistadores employed violence to force natives to accept baptism. But often this brutality only provoked dogged resistance and outright rejection of the soldiers’ beliefs. What other religion uses such tactics?
XD40scinNC
New member
Oh, you mean the god that murdered 99.999% of all people on the planet (according to your fable) during one of his "fits"? OK, whatever floats your ark.
Oldgrunt
Well-known member
XD: Who is crowing about the treatment of North American Indians? Not me. I think what happened to them was a shame but I had no more to do with that than you. That is history and we can not change it. Wrong things happen and a lot of people go overboard in their application of what they think is good. You ask what other religions force their tenets on the populace by force. Have you happened to read the papers lately or watched the TV news? Do the names Islam/Muslim strike a chord with you? If you are simply determined to argue about something, go back in history and research religions of the past and what toll they took on their members in the name of their "gods."
Your questions have been answered so you have now gone off on another tangent. There is no satisfying you unless your opponent(s) totally capitulate to your thoughts on the subject but I can assure you that will not happen. You don't believe in God....OK...you don't believe in God. We do and you don't stand any chance of changing us. You can keep up with your antagonizing but all you are doing is frustrating yourself. Any continuation with you in these posts is useless so I, for one, am writing you off as a waste of time on the subject of religion.
Your questions have been answered so you have now gone off on another tangent. There is no satisfying you unless your opponent(s) totally capitulate to your thoughts on the subject but I can assure you that will not happen. You don't believe in God....OK...you don't believe in God. We do and you don't stand any chance of changing us. You can keep up with your antagonizing but all you are doing is frustrating yourself. Any continuation with you in these posts is useless so I, for one, am writing you off as a waste of time on the subject of religion.
Ringo
A WATCHMAN
That's exactly what the Lord expects you to do OG.
"If the people in a home or a town refuse to welcome you or listen to you, then leave that place and shake the dust off your feet. I can assure you that on the judgment day it will be worse for them than for the people of Sodom and Gomorrah".
"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces".
"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces".
Ringo
A WATCHMAN
The Rise of Gog of Magog
More than 2,600 years ago, the prophet Ezekiel warned of a future time when a vast coalition of nations will attack Israel. But these plans to conquer and pillage will come to nothing. Why? Because God promises to turn these enemy invaders against each other (Ezekiel 38:21). God says the invading armies will have their weapons knocked from their hands, and they will die in open fields where they’ll become food for vultures and wild animals. In fact, the Bible says Gog’s invasion of Israel will trigger an earthquake so strong every living creature on the face of the earth will tremble in God's presence (Ezekiel 38:19-20), and He will send a torrential rain of fire, hailstones, and burning sulfur on the invading armies (Ezekiel 38:22). The end result? Total destruction of the Gog of Magog alliance. So many dead bodies will litter the landscape, it will take seven months to bury the dead – even with the help of every citizen in Israel (Ezekiel 39:12). Below is the list of nations cited by Ezekiel. The Old Testament name is listed first, followed by its modern day equivalent:
God reveals precisely when this invasion will occur. In verse 12, Gog says to himself, “I will attack the once abandoned cities that are now populated with the Jews who returned from exile among the nations” (Ezekiel 38:12). Did you catch that? Gog will attack the land when it’s filled with the exiles who return from among the nations. The target of Gog’s invasion is modern day Israel. This return home from among many nations has happened only once in all of human history. And our generation is witness to that event – the 1948 gathering of the Jewish people and the restoration of Israel in the land ordained by God. For more than 2,600 years, the alliance of nations Ezekiel wrote about has not existed. In fact, in the history of the world, such an alliance of nations has never existed. Today we see it coming together right in front of us. So why does this matter? Because Ezekiel said this invasion will occur in the last days, "when God brings his people home from among the nations." The Old Testament prophets directly linked the restoration of Israel and the regathering of the Jewish people with the imminent coming of the Messiah. And Ezekiel links the Gog of Magog invasion with the restoration of Israel. This means the invasion will take place sometime shortly before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. In other words, the Gog of Magog invasion and the Second Coming are inextricably linked. Never before in the history of the world has an alliance existed among the specific nations cited by Ezekiel. This invasion requires a Russian-Iranian military alliance that didn’t exist until recent times, today, we can clearly see the common interests shared by the nations he mentioned.. For the first time in the 2,600 years since Ezekiel recorded his prophecy, we see signs of the Gog of Magog alliance coming together.
In the Fig Tree prophecy ("I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until ALL of these things have happened") Jesus made it perfectly clear that the "RE-BIRTH" of ISRAEL (1948) would mark the beginning of this Last Generation. So what should you take from all of this? God has said that the number of a man's years (Generation) will be "Three Score & Ten (70), Fourscore (80) If By Strength". Considering that the Gog of Magog alliance is coming together in our day and time, and we are already 67 years into this Last Generation, things are going to get very ugly, very soon. Time is much shorter than we think.
More than 2,600 years ago, the prophet Ezekiel warned of a future time when a vast coalition of nations will attack Israel. But these plans to conquer and pillage will come to nothing. Why? Because God promises to turn these enemy invaders against each other (Ezekiel 38:21). God says the invading armies will have their weapons knocked from their hands, and they will die in open fields where they’ll become food for vultures and wild animals. In fact, the Bible says Gog’s invasion of Israel will trigger an earthquake so strong every living creature on the face of the earth will tremble in God's presence (Ezekiel 38:19-20), and He will send a torrential rain of fire, hailstones, and burning sulfur on the invading armies (Ezekiel 38:22). The end result? Total destruction of the Gog of Magog alliance. So many dead bodies will litter the landscape, it will take seven months to bury the dead – even with the help of every citizen in Israel (Ezekiel 39:12). Below is the list of nations cited by Ezekiel. The Old Testament name is listed first, followed by its modern day equivalent:
Rosh = Russia
Magog = Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and Afghanistan
Persia = Iran
Cush = Sudan
Put = Libya
Meshech, Tubal, Gomer, and Beth-togarmah = Turkey
Magog = Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and Afghanistan
Persia = Iran
Cush = Sudan
Put = Libya
Meshech, Tubal, Gomer, and Beth-togarmah = Turkey
God reveals precisely when this invasion will occur. In verse 12, Gog says to himself, “I will attack the once abandoned cities that are now populated with the Jews who returned from exile among the nations” (Ezekiel 38:12). Did you catch that? Gog will attack the land when it’s filled with the exiles who return from among the nations. The target of Gog’s invasion is modern day Israel. This return home from among many nations has happened only once in all of human history. And our generation is witness to that event – the 1948 gathering of the Jewish people and the restoration of Israel in the land ordained by God. For more than 2,600 years, the alliance of nations Ezekiel wrote about has not existed. In fact, in the history of the world, such an alliance of nations has never existed. Today we see it coming together right in front of us. So why does this matter? Because Ezekiel said this invasion will occur in the last days, "when God brings his people home from among the nations." The Old Testament prophets directly linked the restoration of Israel and the regathering of the Jewish people with the imminent coming of the Messiah. And Ezekiel links the Gog of Magog invasion with the restoration of Israel. This means the invasion will take place sometime shortly before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. In other words, the Gog of Magog invasion and the Second Coming are inextricably linked. Never before in the history of the world has an alliance existed among the specific nations cited by Ezekiel. This invasion requires a Russian-Iranian military alliance that didn’t exist until recent times, today, we can clearly see the common interests shared by the nations he mentioned.. For the first time in the 2,600 years since Ezekiel recorded his prophecy, we see signs of the Gog of Magog alliance coming together.
In the Fig Tree prophecy ("I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until ALL of these things have happened") Jesus made it perfectly clear that the "RE-BIRTH" of ISRAEL (1948) would mark the beginning of this Last Generation. So what should you take from all of this? God has said that the number of a man's years (Generation) will be "Three Score & Ten (70), Fourscore (80) If By Strength". Considering that the Gog of Magog alliance is coming together in our day and time, and we are already 67 years into this Last Generation, things are going to get very ugly, very soon. Time is much shorter than we think.
XD40scinNC
New member
You talk about my opposition to religion, but it pales in comparison to your obsession about my opposition to imposing the ancient ignorance of religion into today's world. The focus of your posts is directed at me, it seems my message is causing a great deal of angst in your mind, yet you ignore my message and have an obsession about me, that I don't buy the BS of god, and as such will "answer" and go to hell.
I am not frustrated (regardless of how much you want me to be frustrated) I am used to discussing facts with people that live in a fantasy land, it's sport, and occasionally has caused people to question their beliefs.
And yes, I do watch the news, and it screams that religion is the greatest threat to mankind's future. Perhaps you should pay more attention to the news and what it actually going in the minds of men that believe in imaginary gods. Obviously because you bring this up, you dismiss the Islamic god as fictional, and their holy book and irrelevant today, all while failing to recognize your god and holy book fit the same bill. And perhaps you should go back in history and look at the murder in the name of your religion. How about your god that single handily murdered 99.999% of all life on the planet.
Sorry you view challenging thoughts, facts, and reality as antagonizing, another characteristic of lifelong religious intolerance, yet irrelevant to you argument.
Ringo
A WATCHMAN
And If The Dead Rise Not.
"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." (1st Corinthians 15:51-53)
Throughout the New Testament, the word translated as 'mystery' comes from the Greek'musterion' which literally means 'secret' or 'hidden thing'. In our modern English, however, 'mystery' is understood in the Agatha Christie or Sherlock Holmesian sense of the word.
Paul's use of the word 'mystery' when describing the Rapture in 1 Corinthians 15:53 means a truth that had not yet been revealed.
Paul cannot be referring to the Second Coming of Christ; His return at the end of the Tribulation is one of the oldest prophecies recorded in Scripture.
Daniel 12:1-3; Zechariah 12:10; 14:4 all mention the 2nd Coming, and Jude quotes Enoch, the "seventh from Adam" who "prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints." (Jude 1:14)
The Rapture, therefore, is a previously unrevealed secret, a 'hidden thing' of God previously unknown to men.
As the end of this present Age approaches, there are many Christians who are beginning to wonder if we might already be in the Tribulation now.
We aren't.
Assessment:
There are lots and lots of folks who think I am 'way out there' for adhering to a pre-Tribulationist doctrine. (I know this to be true, also, because I get emails from them every time I comment on the Rapture, saying, "Kinsella, you're way out there!")
They'll go on smugly (and endlessly), playing word games like "the word 'Rapture' isn't even in the Bible' -- as if that meant something.
(Try and find the word 'Bible' in the Bible. Does its absence from the Scriptures mean there is no Bible?)
Or babble mindlessly about Margarent MacDonald and C.I. Schofield, before pronouncing Dispensationalism and a pre-Trib Rapture a modern-day 'invented' doctrine.
I say 'mindlessly' because they don't know what they are talking about -- they are just quoting somebody else's research as if it were the Gospel itself.
We have dealt with the Margaret MacDonald argument in previous Omega Letter reports, so we won't address that particular 'controversy' here, other than to note that the Apostle Paul wrote of the Rapture 1800 years before Margaret MacDonald.
Instead of building the argument based on what the Bible doesn't say about the Rapture, it is helpful to take a good close look at what it DOES tell us about the Rapture.
First, notice that the Rapture involves the movement of believers from the earth to Heaven:
"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1 Thessalonians 4:17)
The 'dead in Christ' rise first, those believers who are 'alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds. The operative word here is 'rise'.
On the other hand, at the Second Coming, the Lord returns WITH His saints;
"To the end He may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints." (1st Thessalonians 3:13)
So the Rapture is not the same event as the Second Coming.
And things that are different are NOT the same. What would be the point of Rapturing the Church then, anyway? The Lord returns to establish His kingdom on earth, so why pull out all the Christians?
Who is He gonna rule?
"And before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And He shall set the sheep on His right Hand, but the goats on the left." (Matthew 25:32-33)
If all the believers are raptured at the Second Coming, that would also include the Tribulation saints. Where would the believers in mortal bodies come from, if they are raptured at the Second Coming?
Who would be able to enter into Christ's Kingdom? Enquiring minds want to know.
Then there is Daniel's 70 weeks. The Church was absent for the first sixty-nine weeks -- the countdown was suspended at the Cross so the Church could be born.
Daniel makes it clear that all 70 weeks are determined upon Israel.
"Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints." (Revelation 19:7-8)
If the Bride is made ready to accompany Christ to the earth at the Second Coming, (while part of the bride is still on earth during the Tribulation) then how does the Bride (the Church) also come with Christ at His Return?
There is the example of Enoch: "And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him." (Genesis 5:24) Not only does Enoch prefigure the Rapture, note that Enoch's Rapture waspre-Flood, and not mid-Flood or post-Flood.
The Scriptures are plain, clear and concise on the topic of a pre-Tribulation Rapture -- provided one interprets the Bible literally, instead of figuratively or symbolically.
While no man knows the day or the hour of the Rapture, the Second Coming can be accurately predicted, since Daniel tells us He returns exactly 1,290 days after the antichrist;
"opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." (2nd Thessalonians 2:4)
"And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days." (Daniel 12:11)
The pre-Tribulation Rapture is often called the "Blessed Hope" by those who look for His return before the Tribulation begins. Those who believe the Church will go through the Tribulation sneeringly call it the 'Great Escape'.
Don't let anybody steal away your Blessed Hope:
"For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised,your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable." (1st Corinthians 15:16-19)
The Rapture happens before the Tribulation, which means that He is coming for us soon! Call it the Blessed Hope or the Great Escape, He IS coming.
And given the current state of global affairs, it can't be too much longer until we hear that trumpet.
Maranatha!
- Jack Kinsella -
"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." (1st Corinthians 15:51-53)
Throughout the New Testament, the word translated as 'mystery' comes from the Greek'musterion' which literally means 'secret' or 'hidden thing'. In our modern English, however, 'mystery' is understood in the Agatha Christie or Sherlock Holmesian sense of the word.
Paul's use of the word 'mystery' when describing the Rapture in 1 Corinthians 15:53 means a truth that had not yet been revealed.
Paul cannot be referring to the Second Coming of Christ; His return at the end of the Tribulation is one of the oldest prophecies recorded in Scripture.
Daniel 12:1-3; Zechariah 12:10; 14:4 all mention the 2nd Coming, and Jude quotes Enoch, the "seventh from Adam" who "prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints." (Jude 1:14)
The Rapture, therefore, is a previously unrevealed secret, a 'hidden thing' of God previously unknown to men.
As the end of this present Age approaches, there are many Christians who are beginning to wonder if we might already be in the Tribulation now.
We aren't.
Assessment:
There are lots and lots of folks who think I am 'way out there' for adhering to a pre-Tribulationist doctrine. (I know this to be true, also, because I get emails from them every time I comment on the Rapture, saying, "Kinsella, you're way out there!")
They'll go on smugly (and endlessly), playing word games like "the word 'Rapture' isn't even in the Bible' -- as if that meant something.
(Try and find the word 'Bible' in the Bible. Does its absence from the Scriptures mean there is no Bible?)
Or babble mindlessly about Margarent MacDonald and C.I. Schofield, before pronouncing Dispensationalism and a pre-Trib Rapture a modern-day 'invented' doctrine.
I say 'mindlessly' because they don't know what they are talking about -- they are just quoting somebody else's research as if it were the Gospel itself.
We have dealt with the Margaret MacDonald argument in previous Omega Letter reports, so we won't address that particular 'controversy' here, other than to note that the Apostle Paul wrote of the Rapture 1800 years before Margaret MacDonald.
Instead of building the argument based on what the Bible doesn't say about the Rapture, it is helpful to take a good close look at what it DOES tell us about the Rapture.
First, notice that the Rapture involves the movement of believers from the earth to Heaven:
"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1 Thessalonians 4:17)
The 'dead in Christ' rise first, those believers who are 'alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds. The operative word here is 'rise'.
On the other hand, at the Second Coming, the Lord returns WITH His saints;
"To the end He may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints." (1st Thessalonians 3:13)
So the Rapture is not the same event as the Second Coming.
And things that are different are NOT the same. What would be the point of Rapturing the Church then, anyway? The Lord returns to establish His kingdom on earth, so why pull out all the Christians?
Who is He gonna rule?
"And before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And He shall set the sheep on His right Hand, but the goats on the left." (Matthew 25:32-33)
If all the believers are raptured at the Second Coming, that would also include the Tribulation saints. Where would the believers in mortal bodies come from, if they are raptured at the Second Coming?
Who would be able to enter into Christ's Kingdom? Enquiring minds want to know.
Then there is Daniel's 70 weeks. The Church was absent for the first sixty-nine weeks -- the countdown was suspended at the Cross so the Church could be born.
Daniel makes it clear that all 70 weeks are determined upon Israel.
"Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints." (Revelation 19:7-8)
If the Bride is made ready to accompany Christ to the earth at the Second Coming, (while part of the bride is still on earth during the Tribulation) then how does the Bride (the Church) also come with Christ at His Return?
There is the example of Enoch: "And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him." (Genesis 5:24) Not only does Enoch prefigure the Rapture, note that Enoch's Rapture waspre-Flood, and not mid-Flood or post-Flood.
The Scriptures are plain, clear and concise on the topic of a pre-Tribulation Rapture -- provided one interprets the Bible literally, instead of figuratively or symbolically.
While no man knows the day or the hour of the Rapture, the Second Coming can be accurately predicted, since Daniel tells us He returns exactly 1,290 days after the antichrist;
"opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." (2nd Thessalonians 2:4)
"And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days." (Daniel 12:11)
The pre-Tribulation Rapture is often called the "Blessed Hope" by those who look for His return before the Tribulation begins. Those who believe the Church will go through the Tribulation sneeringly call it the 'Great Escape'.
Don't let anybody steal away your Blessed Hope:
"For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised,your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable." (1st Corinthians 15:16-19)
The Rapture happens before the Tribulation, which means that He is coming for us soon! Call it the Blessed Hope or the Great Escape, He IS coming.
And given the current state of global affairs, it can't be too much longer until we hear that trumpet.
Maranatha!
- Jack Kinsella -
SR9
New member
My Pastor, speaking on the Rapture today, said he knows when it will happen. Of course everyone wanted to know. He said it will happen........................
When every last person on Earth that can be saved, has been saved, then Jesus will take us up, and not before. Jesus knows the scoffers(hopeless), and he knows those who repent. Jesus predicted this almost 2000 years ago. He had your number even then.
When every last person on Earth that can be saved, has been saved, then Jesus will take us up, and not before. Jesus knows the scoffers(hopeless), and he knows those who repent. Jesus predicted this almost 2000 years ago. He had your number even then.
XD40scinNC
New member
Very convenient for them, for they can't be accused of setting a date (though many of them were saying last September was "it") and looking like a fool when nothing happens. But still nothing happens and they still look like fools.
Ringo
A WATCHMAN
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
XD40scinNC
New member
Hey Ringo, which is it? Here you agree with SR9 that it will be some obscure and impossible time in the future, but not long ago it was September 2015, you know, LAST month. Remember copy/pasting this?
Rapture believing christians are a curious lot....
SR9
New member
Children are born innocent and sinless and by that will automatically go to Heaven. Being an atheist is a learned sin, only forgivable through repentance. But, as I've said before it cannot be accomplished ate the time Jesus returns in the clouds to call us up. That will happen "In the blink of an eye" as stated in the Bible, and that is between 300-400 milliseconds according to science. We will be gone before you can a word.
SR9
New member
Approx. 151,600 people die every day. Few are saved, by their own fault.
- Status
