Shoot..Or Don't Shoot, Video Shows A Cop...

[gunsite]

... confronted by a Armed robber, i don't agree with his hesitation to shoot allowing the BG to possibly shoot first. Notice the cop drawing as the BG begins his entry, so he must of notice something as the BG approach/entering the door.

I would shoot first, and lock-up second, as soon as the BG pointed the gun... probable cause and fear of life has been establish.

I think the cop was more lucky than good. Do you think an opportunity should be given to a target once the target draws/points a gun at you.


YouTube - Robber runs into armed cop

 

[Bighouse Doc]

That cop was more restrained than I could ever be.

I would never give any of this kind the slightest chance!

-Doc

 

[2beararms]

The whole thing looks like a fake to me.

The supposed "cop" draws, smiling, before the guy is even in the store and before his weapon would be in his line of sight like it is set up for the video. Then he just does not handle the weapon like a trained LEO and he seems way to nonchalant the entire time.

 

[Kronos]

I have to agree it was staged if someone draws on you it's now you or him.

 

[JSDinTexas]

I will make the assumption that most of these robbers are cowards with little gun training - notice the robber ducks and lowers his weapon.
With that said, I see 3 options: 1. do nothing, stand back and let the robber get the money - danger still exists 2. do what the cop did and he is probably saying "Police, drop the weapon and get on the ground" - possibly eliminating danger 3. Blast him - removing danger.

For the cop, apparently the danger was not sufficient for him to fire immediately??? However, for a civilian, yelling "Police" may create liability and charges of impersonating an officer or some crap like that. So the only reasonable option would be to fire and eliminate the danger to everyone.

The question I might have is is a life worth it? And my answer is: Maybe not, but not worth MY life - so I would probably fire.

I have been seriously thinking about things like this as I am getting my CHL on Saturday.

 

[JSDinTexas]

And let me add that I had not considered the fake side - and the cop does seem too laid back. The cops I know would have had no hesitation to waste him and get a bad guy off the streets, and avoid the liability of wounding him.

 

[Kronos]

What is CHL jsdinTexas?

 

[JSDinTexas]

In Texas it's called a Concealed Handgun License - same as a CCW and such

 

[Mountaingoat61]

The whole thing looks like a fake to me.

The supposed "cop" draws, smiling, before the guy is even in the store and before his weapon would be in his line of sight like it is set up for the video. Then he just does not handle the weapon like a trained LEO and he seems way to nonchalant the entire time.

How the heck can you tell the cop's smiling? you must have some kind of super hi-res computer monitor or something... If he was smiling, it was probably from flirting with the clerk. ;-) And it appears that something gets the attention of both the cop and the clerk right before the cop draws, maybe she saw the gun and alerted him.. who knows...

As far as the BG not shooting, there was a story in the local paper here last week about how many convicts are getting look-alike airsoft pistols and painting the orange tip to match the gun cuz they can't get real ones... so it's a possibility this BG didn't have the means to fire... anyways, if that was a real situation, the cop did show a lot of restraint. Gun pointed at me, the BG better shoot cuz I sure the h3!! am going to!

 

[mappow]

Hard to tell, looks like the cop at the counter caught a glimpse of the perp right before he entered. As the cop throws his head to the right so does the the girl behind the counter. Hard to tell if this is all staged or not. BUT it's too late after the perp has you in his sights. Had I been at the counter, saw entry by a perp with a weapon coming up, I'd shoot. Of coarse in two round bursts. PC was established as soon as gun was sighted being drawn.

Way back when their was series of "Shoot, Don't Shoot" training films out there. Will have to search for and review. A bit hooky but maybe there's some updated training formats out there.

1911 MOD 1 45ACP-The only sidearm to out last two World Wars and then some. A Century old next year!

 

[Boomboy007]

One thing to remember....

One must keep in mind that in most jurisdictions police officers are held to a considerably higher standard of self defense. That is why, when confronted with an armed bad guy, you hear "Freeze, police! Drop the weapon!" instead of "bang, bang..... bang!"

 

[murph50]

I thought the cop handled it pretty well (if it was not staged)
He was aware enough to see this dude before he came through the door.
I think he freaked that BG out bigtime and he knew it so there was no need to shoot.
The BG was not ready for that

 

[gunsite]

The whole thing looks like a fake to me.

The supposed "cop" draws, smiling, before the guy is even in the store and before his weapon would be in his line of sight like it is set up for the video. Then he just does not handle the weapon like a trained LEO and he seems way to nonchalant the entire time.

The video was aired on Trutv, so lets just say its real, its authenticity is really irrelevant, its just a visual scenario to comment on stage or not.

 

[gunsite]

I will make the assumption that most of these robbers are cowards with little gun training - notice the robber ducks and lowers his weapon.
With that said, I see 3 options: 1. do nothing, stand back and let the robber get the money - danger still exists 2. do what the cop did and he is probably saying "Police, drop the weapon and get on the ground" - possibly eliminating danger 3. Blast him - removing danger.

For the cop, apparently the danger was not sufficient for him to fire immediately??? However, for a civilian, yelling "Police" may create liability and charges of impersonating an officer or some crap like that. So the only reasonable option would be to fire and eliminate the danger to everyone.

The question I might have is is a life worth it? And my answer is: Maybe not, but not worth MY life - so I would probably fire.

I have been seriously thinking about things like this as I am getting my CHL on Saturday.

There's no greater danger than someone pointing a gun at you during a confrontation/crime.

 

[gunsite]

This is the difference between getting shot or not, ITS HESITATION, this time the cop was lucky, all that TV stuff " drop your weapon... freeze.. you know when the hero and the BG have guns pointed at each other and their exchanging dialogue..BULL SHT that only makes good TV
drama... but in real life when someone points a gun at you during a crime/confrontation... YOU SHOOT. Don't wait to take a hit or hear the crack, this video shows poor training/risk assessment/poor reaction, DO NOT give your target/Bad Guy the opportunity to take the first shot.

There are times you say FREEZE... DROP YOUR WEAPON... but not when a gun is pointed at you, if your face to face with someone and they have a gun in their hand at their side, and they start raising their weapon at you... what do you do...SAY FREEZE...DROP IT... or do you shoot.

This is poor training because the cop subconscious is trained to shoot only when shot at, at some levels thats true... but not here. Proper training in RISK ASSESSMENT... BG points a gun at during a crime at this range... you're in IMMEDIATE FEAR OF YOUR LIFE, the next level is being shot between the eyes by the BG.

If the video showed the cop getting shot and the BG getting away, everyone here would be talking about why the cop didn't shoot... the cop was VERY LUCKY. This particular video shows exactly what NOT TO DO... HESITATE... if you let your emotions dictate your tactical/combat reaction, YOU MAY END UP GETTING SHOT.

 

[JSDinTexas]

Gunsite

I think this is good info - and in a situation where a gun is pointing at me, I would fire, and fire numerous times to be sure.
I appreciate any advice I can get on tactical training - I will need it. I also plan on taking some type of classes on gun training beyond just the CHL class to improve my skills, and of course, practice, practice, practice.
Thanks for the advice ...

 

[PX4storm]

H m m mm ... real or set ?

 

[gunsite]

I think this is good info - and in a situation where a gun is pointing at me, I would fire, and fire numerous times to be sure.
I appreciate any advice I can get on tactical training - I will need it. I also plan on taking some type of classes on gun training beyond just the CHL class to improve my skills, and of course, practice, practice, practice.
Thanks for the advice ...

I going to post another video/thread, take a look at and see what is right or wrong with the risk assessment of the officers. Close quarter shootings (<20 feet) has to be a Muscle memory/natural reaction, like a punch being thrown, you block it and/or move your head, its not a thought process or an emotional thought, someone points a gun/rifle close range (<25 feet) during a confrontation/during a crime, you shoot and talk later, IF someone one points a gun at you with intent to do harm don't wait to take the hit, YOU SHOOT, GOOD LUCK.

 

[JSDinTexas]

Yes, I agree GunSite. I believe I have no mental hesitation in firing because I have already heard a great deal from some of my LEO friends who do say you have to control the situation and tactical info that says stay ahead of the Observation, Orientation, Decision, Action curve.

 

[HardCorps53]

I think it's staged. The girl behind the counter never ducks behind cover. I think natural instinct would be to drop down behind the counter.

If it's not staged, I think the cop made the right call. The BG was aiming at the clerk. Shooting the BG while the BG aimed at the clerk could have been disasterous.