Scary LEO Encounter, Lucedale Mississippi!!

[Benndalebandit]

Scary LEO Encounter: Lucedale, Ms.

On Sunday May 1, 2011 I was out for a ride on my motorcycle. I was carrying (I do have a valid Mississippi Firearms Card) my Colt Defender .45 in an OWB holster. I had on two T-shirts, the outer one was un-tucked and covering my weapon. I stopped at a gas station to get a drink, and when I pulled in I noticed a Mississippi State Patrol as well as a Lucedale City Police sitting in the parking lot of the gas station. I parked the bike and dis-mounted. At that time I noticed my T-shirt was up and my Colt Defender was exposed. Not a big deal supposedly in Mississippi with the whole “Partially Concealed” wording of the Law. When I walked out of the store with my purchase; both Officers were standing outside by the door waiting for me.
The State Officer asked me “Who do you work for”, and I was confused for a second. He was referring to my weapon and whether or not I was affiliated with any type of Law Enforcement Agency. When I informed theses officers that I was not Law Enforcement, they stated that I was” Illegal”, and that I could not carry my weapon in just a holster on my hip.” It HAS TO BE CONCEALED” was what I was told by both the State and Local PD.
If not for knowing the State Officer from my part time job as an EMT in George County, I feel I would have been arrested today! Just 12 hours earlier this SAME State Officer and I were working a car wreck together so He recognized me after a few minutes ( I was in Biker Garb and not my EMT uniform) and then He started to back off a bit.
The State Officer said that he is going to speak directly with the Mississippi State Attorney General and get His view of the Mississippi State Gun Laws, and we would talk again next time we see each other. I asked that whatever the AG decides to say, please get me something in writing, and/or direct me to the specific statue in the Law. Looks like I may get the AG of Mississippi to have to make a stand on this issue one way or another. Not sure how this will work out.

I will post again when I get the results.
-Bandit

 

[S&WM&P40]

Scary LEO Encounter: Lucedale, Ms.

On Sunday May 1, 2011 I was out for a ride on my motorcycle. I was carrying (I do have a valid Mississippi Firearms Card) my Colt Defender .45 in an OWB holster. I had on two T-shirts, the outer one was un-tucked and covering my weapon. I stopped at a gas station to get a drink, and when I pulled in I noticed a Mississippi State Patrol as well as a Lucedale City Police sitting in the parking lot of the gas station. I parked the bike and dis-mounted. At that time I noticed my T-shirt was up and my Colt Defender was exposed. Not a big deal supposedly in Mississippi with the whole “Partially Concealed” wording of the Law. When I walked out of the store with my purchase; both Officers were standing outside by the door waiting for me.
The State Officer asked me “Who do you work for”, and I was confused for a second. He was referring to my weapon and whether or not I was affiliated with any type of Law Enforcement Agency. When I informed theses officers that I was not Law Enforcement, they stated that I was” Illegal”, and that I could not carry my weapon in just a holster on my hip.” It HAS TO BE CONCEALED” was what I was told by both the State and Local PD.
If not for knowing the State Officer from my part time job as an EMT in George County, I feel I would have been arrested today! Just 12 hours earlier this SAME State Officer and I were working a car wreck together so He recognized me after a few minutes ( I was in Biker Garb and not my EMT uniform) and then He started to back off a bit.
The State Officer said that he is going to speak directly with the Mississippi State Attorney General and get His view of the Mississippi State Gun Laws, and we would talk again next time we see each other. I asked that whatever the AG decides to say, please get me something in writing, and/or direct me to the specific statue in the Law. Looks like I may get the AG of Mississippi to have to make a stand on this issue one way or another. Not sure how this will work out.

I will post again when I get the results.
-Bandit

Mississippi is an open carry state and the state constitution appears to guarantee this right. Further, localities are generally preempted under state law from enacting local gun control ordnances that might restrict open carry. However, Miss. Code §§ 97-37-1 & § 45-9-101 operate together to ban carriage of a handgun "concealed in whole or in part" unless the carrier is inside a motor vehicle or possesses a License to Carry a Concealed Pistol or Revolver. As the Mississippi courts have said that a handgun in a holster is concealed in part, a License to Carry a Concealed Pistol or Revolver is required to openly carry a handgun in a holster in Mississippi.

Hope that helps.

 

[Benndalebandit]

I will have a copy of the ENTIRE Mississippi Code on my person from now on while I am carying. I told these Officers of the Miss. Code §§ 97-37-1 & § 45-9-101 and the phrase "concealed in whole or in part" unless the carrier is inside a motor vehicle or possesses a License to Carry a Concealed Pistol or Revolver", and they said that was NOT the case.

 

[S&WM&P40]

I will have a copy of the ENTIRE Mississippi Code on my person from now on while I am carying. I told these Officers of the Miss. Code §§ 97-37-1 & § 45-9-101 and the phrase "concealed in whole or in part" unless the carrier is inside a motor vehicle or possesses a License to Carry a Concealed Pistol or Revolver", and they said that was NOT the case.

They will almost always say that. It's vary rare that an officer will admit they are wrong. You really have to have the hard facts in front of you(copy of the law.) You can always request a supervisor be sent to your location. You can also request that they call the DA/ADA/ their departments legal department.

 

[Benndalebandit]

Thanks for all the encouragement, and I will get a copy of the Code of 1972 to cary with me at all times.

But what if even showing the Officer the Laws and the wording of "Partialy Concealed" he decides to arrest you? Is there anything you can do to avoid the hassle of being arrested? I guess it would take getting arrested then filing suit against the arresting department.

 

[Chap]

Sure wish this issue would get cleared up by our regulation writers. We need a Definition for: ( Concealed ) or ( concealed in whole or in part ) or ( Open )as it relates to carring in Mississippi.


SEC. 45-9-101. License to carry concealed pistol or revolver.
(18) Nothing in this section shall be construed to require or allow the registration, documentation or providing of serial numbers with regard to any firearm. Further, nothing in this section shall be construed to allow the open and unconcealed carrying of any deadly weapon as described in Section 97-37-1, Mississippi Code of 1972.

SEC. 97-37-1. Deadly weapons; carrying while concealed; use or attempt to use; penalties.
(1) Except as otherwise provided in Section 45-9-101, any person who carries, concealed in whole or in part, any bowie knife, dirk knife, butcher knife, switchblade knife, metallic knuckles, blackjack, slingshot, pistol, revolver, or any rifle with a barrel of less than sixteen (16) inches in length, or any shotgun with a barrel of less than eighteen (18) inches in length, machine gun or any fully automatic firearm or deadly weapon, or any muffler or silencer for any firearm, whether or not it is accompanied by a firearm, or uses or attempts to use against another person any imitation firearm, shall upon conviction be punished as follows:

So we can't carry Open in Mississippi.

So does a pistol in a holster meet the definition of Concealed or Concealed in whole or in part or Open? - these are the simple questions I'd like our regulation writers to answer.

Chap

 

[Fallguy]

Thanks for all the encouragement, and I will get a copy of the Code of 1972 to cary with me at all times.

But what if even showing the Officer the Laws and the wording of "Partialy Concealed" he decides to arrest you? Is there anything you can do to avoid the hassle of being arrested? I guess it would take getting arrested then filing suit against the arresting department.

In short....I'd say No.

There is a police saying..."You may beat the charge, but you won't be the ride."

 

[Benndalebandit]

Here is what the Mississippi State Constitution says:

Mississippi: The right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but the legislature may regulate or forbid carrying concealed weapons. Art. III, § 12 (enacted 1890, art. 3, § 12).

1817: "Every citizen has a right to bear arms, in defence of himself and the State." Art. I, § 23.
1832: "Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defence of himself and of the State." Art. I, § 23.
1868: "All persons shall have a right to keep and bear arms for their defence." Art. I, § 15.

[Self-defense right explicitly protected.]

may regulate or forbid carrying concealed weapons. Art. III, § 12 (enacted 1890, art. 3, § 12).[/I] [/U]
That tells me that they sorta expected you to cary your weapon out in the open, but they would regulate it if you wanted to conceal it. And being that they have said a gun in a holster is "Partialy Concealed", then one must have a Firearms Permit to cary a gun in a holster, but that would make it totaly legal to do!

I have printed everything out and I will take it to Mr State Officer and we can hopefuly sit down and talk about this. I still have not heard from the AG, but I also have not seen Mr State Officer either, just a matter of time.

-Bandit

 

[Chap]

Good Luck,

I hope we get clarification on how the courts would rule if an LEO arrested for open carry or pistol in a visible holster. ( some if not most LEO would consider that open carry )

Many others on various Forums I follow have attempted to get Mississippi AG's to comment on this subject. No luck so far. Here is Link Removed its a good read.

Please keep us informed.

Chap

 

[Deanimator]

Thanks for all the encouragement, and I will get a copy of the Code of 1972 to cary with me at all times.

But what if even showing the Officer the Laws and the wording of "Partialy Concealed" he decides to arrest you? Is there anything you can do to avoid the hassle of being arrested? I guess it would take getting arrested then filing suit against the arresting department.

To paraphrase Stalin, "Sue, sue and sue some more."

Nobody has to like the law.

Everybody has to obey it, including cops.

If they feel they don't need to, make it a painful decision for them.

 

[Chap]

Hey Dave ( Benndalebandit )

I posted my #44 post above on another forum. here is the link Link Removed check out Post #49 which explains it pretty well I think. Might be worth reading

Chap

 

[Benndalebandit]

Thnks Chap, good reading indeed!! I think we are on to something here, and the movement is just starting. I want to do an Open Cary Cleanup in Lucedale to show support. I would have plenty of witnesses at least!
-dave

 

[NavyLCDR]

Sure wish this issue would get cleared up by our regulation writers. We need a Definition for: ( Concealed ) or ( concealed in whole or in part ) or ( Open )as it relates to carring in Mississippi.


SEC. 45-9-101. License to carry concealed pistol or revolver.
(18) Nothing in this section shall be construed to require or allow the registration, documentation or providing of serial numbers with regard to any firearm. Further, nothing in this section shall be construed to allow the open and unconcealed carrying of any deadly weapon as described in Section 97-37-1, Mississippi Code of 1972.

SEC. 97-37-1. Deadly weapons; carrying while concealed; use or attempt to use; penalties.
(1) Except as otherwise provided in Section 45-9-101, any person who carries, concealed in whole or in part, any bowie knife, dirk knife, butcher knife, switchblade knife, metallic knuckles, blackjack, slingshot, pistol, revolver, or any rifle with a barrel of less than sixteen (16) inches in length, or any shotgun with a barrel of less than eighteen (18) inches in length, machine gun or any fully automatic firearm or deadly weapon, or any muffler or silencer for any firearm, whether or not it is accompanied by a firearm, or uses or attempts to use against another person any imitation firearm, shall upon conviction be punished as follows:

So we can't carry Open in Mississippi.

So does a pistol in a holster meet the definition of Concealed or Concealed in whole or in part or Open? - these are the simple questions I'd like our regulation writers to answer.

Chap

Where in Mississippi statutes is open carry PROHIBITED? That's the question. You won't find a prohibition on open carry. That's why it is legal. You need a license to carry a gun partially concealed by a holster. But there is no prohibition in MS statute against open carry, and there is no prohibition in MS statutes against carrying a gun "partially concealed" by a holster in full view, if you have the license.

The statute you posted above is correct in that the license does not specifically allow open carry. What allows open carry is the fact that there is no statute prohibiting it. The simple answer to the police is, "Then write me a citation, please, for the statute you think I am violating.

 

[Chap]

True, good point.

Chap

 

[Benndalebandit]

Where in Mississippi statutes is open carry PROHIBITED? That's the question. You won't find a prohibition on open carry. That's why it is legal. You need a license to carry a gun partially concealed by a holster. But there is no prohibition in MS statute against open carry, and there is no prohibition in MS statutes against carrying a gun "partially concealed" by a holster in full view, if you have the license.

The statute you posted above is correct in that the license does not specifically allow open carry. What allows open carry is the fact that there is no statute prohibiting it. The simple answer to the police is, "Then write me a citation, please, for the statute you think I am violating.

This is all they have, and it means nothing if the weapon is "Partialy Concealed" by being in a Holster!!

Further, nothing in this section shall be construed to allow the open and unconcealed carrying of any deadly weapon as described in Section 97-37-1, Mississippi Code of 1972.

 

[NavyLCDR]

This is all they have, and it means nothing if the weapon is "Partialy Concealed" by being in a Holster!!

Further, nothing in this section shall be construed to allow the open and unconcealed carrying of any deadly weapon as described in Section 97-37-1, Mississippi Code of 1972.

Nothing in that section prohibits the open and unconcealed carrying of any deadly weapon, either! If a cop tries to use that particular statute to cite you for open carry, it will have to get thrown out in court because there must be a statute that prohibits an action for that action to be illegal.

So, I agree with you that the statute means nothing if the weapon is "partially concealed" by a holster (with a permit), but I would also say the statute means nothing if the gun is carried in a manner that is considered open and unconcealed.

 

[Chap]

That makes sense NavyLT.

If I'm ever confronted I'll just ask them to write me up, they won't be able to find where in the MS Code to cite me for open carry. (Like you mentioned in post #13 - It doesn't exist)

SEC. 45-9-101. License to carry concealed pistol or revolver. (only deals with Concealed carry) It was never written to speak about Open carry. so they added "Further, nothing in this section shall be construed to allow the open and unconcealed carrying of any deadly weapon as described in Section 97-37-1, Mississippi Code of 1972."

 

[Benndalebandit]

I also see your point NavyLT. Thank you for the Education and the Training Sir!!

For an arrest or citation, LEO would have to reference a statute number and there isn't one for Open Carry. And if he trys Concealed Carry, then I have my Permit.

Case closed.
-Bandit

 

[Firefighterchen]

Just be careful they don't try and screw you over like Fiorino in Philadelphia with reckless endangerment and disorderly conduct. I have been speaking with defense lawyers for another reason (traffic ticket where the trooper lied in court, now have to appeal), and they all told me I should have been ready for the officer to lie, because they ALL do it to make their story sound better.

My family has had zero good encounters with LEO's. Ranging from official stops, to trying to help out a neighbor about to lose their house and the LEO lying, stealing the money, and losing his job because it opened a huge case against him where further evidence was found. Most of the official stops have not been rude or hostile, just blatant lying and unlawful.

 

[Benndalebandit]

reckless endangerment and disorderly conduct.
I don't understand how you can be charged for these when all you are doing is the same actions as the rest of society. The only difference is that you are LEAGALY carrying a firearm.....?
-Dave