Overkill


I thought the NYC cops had Tazers?. That would of worked great in this case instead of killing this guy.
 
Whether it's a cop or a private citizen, you never "shoot to wound". You shoot to stop the threat. Sometimes the threat dies.
 
10 rounds into an unarmored person though? Eeesh... while I agree that you shoot until the threat is stopped I rather doubt the guy was still standing when shot 9 was fired.
 
You shoot until the threat is neutralized. 80% of all hand gun wounds are survivable. 35-40% of knife wounds are survivable. And of the 10 rounds fired, how many either hit the perp or struck in vital regions. The article doesn't address any of that and won't as long as the media is anti LEO. So again, you shoot until the threat is removed.
 
This argument / topic seems to come up often. "They used too much force." The article is from NBC, that creates an issue in itself in my opinion. But really, the guy had a machete sized knife. Police told him to drop it and he didn't. I can't say this enough.... STUPID SHOULD HURT!
You shoot to stop the threat. Two shots center mass. If the threat is still there. Two shots center mass. Continue until the threat stops. The police don't know that he wasn't hopped up on PCP. They did the right thing. Of course this is looking from the outside.

Good grief, there are enough times when the police do seem to over step their authority. This doesn't seem to be one of those times. Since I wasn't there and this is coming from Never Broadcast Correctly, I have to believe the police did the right thing.
 
Iam2Taz said:
This argument / topic seems to come up often. "They used too much force." The article is from NBC, that creates an issue in itself in my opinion. But really, the guy had a machete sized knife. Police told him to drop it and he didn't. I can't say this enough.... STUPID SHOULD HURT!
You shoot to stop the threat. Two shots center mass. If the threat is still there. Two shots center mass. Continue until the threat stops. The police don't know that he wasn't hopped up on PCP. They did the right thing. Of course this is looking from the outside.

Good grief, there are enough times when the police do seem to over step their authority. This doesn't seem to be one of those times. Since I wasn't there and this is coming from Never Broadcast Correctly, I have to believe the police did the right thing.
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"hopped up on PCP" is really not how it works and it is myths like that which lead to such potential overkill.
 
1. Ten rounds were fired. How many hit the suspect?
2. If several officers are shooting, ten rounds could be fired in, literally, a couple of seconds.
3. "'It was scary because a shooting starts here someone could get hurt quickly,' Delgado said." I certainly HOPE so!
 
Numenor said:
10 rounds into an unarmored person though? Eeesh... while I agree that you shoot until the threat is stopped I rather doubt the guy was still standing when shot 9 was fired.
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A foot long knife is considered unarmed, yikes. What do you consider armed, a machete?
 
alextpearson said:
Seeing the article has angered me. There is a problem with over use of force.
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While I agree that such a problem exists, and would even go further and say that it is pervasive, this is not a good example of an "over use" of force. I would also say that "over use" of force is not the right terminology. There are either legal or illegal, justified or unjustifed uses of force. They are determined to be one or the other according to the language of the statutes that control the issue. "Over use" is totally subjective. Reading and applying the law as it is written is much more objective, and in any jurisdiction that I've ever heard of, opening fire on a subject threatening any person, cop or otherwise, is both legal and justified.

alextpearson said:
One bullet was suffice but this is overkill.
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One bullet? Time to sign up for some training of your own. No instructor at any level of training will teach you that one round will be enough to stop every threat. In fact, none of them will teach that it will stop any threat. Double-tap at a minimum, and many teach triple-tap. Some teach always shoot center mass, others teach go for a head shot if possible. No one teaches onesies. That's the best way to ensure you don't survive a shooting incident.

alextpearson said:
Police need to be trained to down individuals not kill.
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I am extremely unforgiving of abusive cops. There are cops on this board that will tell you that. But as far as I'm concerned, when someone threatens me or you or the cop in uniform on the street with a large knife, I will not hesitate to put him down with at least three to center mass, and I'll be darned if I will second guess you or the cop who does the same.

The media will make this out as just a friendly hippie smokin' a little herb was gunned down in cold blood for such a victimless crime. BS. He was shot, according to witnesses, not only the cops, because he threatened them with a knife. It wouldn't bother me at all if we got smart and stopped the so-called "War on Drugs" and made pot, even other heavier drugs, legal, but threatening anyone with a deadly weapon will never be legal, and I pray that it always remains legal to meet deadly threats with deadly defensive force. Bummer for this guy, but he had a lot more to do with causing his own death than the cops did.

Blues
 
I totally agree with you Blues! Bummer for that guy, he should have been doing something constructive with his time, instead of doing something destructive with his time!
 
There seemed to be quite a few folks on the street when this took place. If this guy began to hack people up there would be a mass of people pissed that the cops didn't neutralize this situation. I think they did their job in this case.

If there were no cops on scene, and a man was running up the street (with a machete) towards me and my family, I know I would have to make some life or death decisions real quick, and it doesn't look like the cards would fall in his favor......
 
From the information we have it looks like a good shoot. By the way, wouldn't mere possession of that size knife be a felony in NYC? I'm not familiar with NYC laws but I'm guessing a Fleeing Felon constituting continuing risk might apply here.
 
"He had a machete type knife. He didn't want to stop. Police told him to drop the knife. He didn't. They shot him." quote from a witness. A knife is a lethal weapon and will be met with a lethal response, not a taser. If you don't want to get shot don't pull a knife, machete in this case, on the cops. It's not rocket science. Don't pull one on me either.
 
Also, what kind of clothing was he wearing??? I'm sure the bullet holes were not as apparent to shooting a white Target at a gun range.
 
First off let me say that I fully understand the tone and intent of the original comments/thread and replies that support same. After taking a breath, however, I realize that sitting at your computer and analyzing the story is really very easy---being there and dealing with this situation is something else. Excessive force--guns blazing vs an idiot with a machete/knife---hard to understand. I must say, however, that if I am not at my computer but at the other end of a maniac with a machete and have a presumption of imminent threat of death I will unload every single cartridge in my firearm until he is down and that machete is not in his hands.
 
We had a old retired school teacher and local artist, family said he was in need of help because of a medication problem. He was at his home standing in his front yard just holding a knife. They used a tazzer him first it had no effect, then one cop just pulled his handgun and shot him dead. The cop sure helped this sick man.
 
Turkules77 said:
A foot long knife is considered unarmed, yikes. What do you consider armed, a machete?
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Careless careless careless reread reread what Numenor wrote. You would definitely make a poor eyewitness! He wrote UN ARMORED not unarmed! As in he was not wearing armor not that he did not have a weapon. If you are going to corect someboby BE CORRECT!:warning2:
 
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