Open carry in Texas - does this sound familiar?


FTG-05
You and I have allowed our culture to be stolen from us. Pretending that winning the culture back doesn’t matter and that the mere exercise of flagging rights will fix things is myopic idiocy. No wonder you fail to regain what you once had.
The problem we face has nothing to do with guns or our God-given rights to keep and bear them. The problem is the lost culture, the lost morality, the death of the core that once thrived. Until that culture, morality, and core is regained, nothing you do means anything.
read More:Link Removed

"Life is hard, being stupid makes it harder." J.W.
That link sent me to an article that repeated all the old, tired, and debunked, myths about open carry that concealed carriers love to trot out yet never seem to be able to provide cites and/or links to actual factual proof those are not myths.

And before anyone cites or links to the remarkably rare instances of open carriers having their gun grabbed... or been shot first please understand that those paltry few instances need to be compared to the DECADES! of open carry just in Arizona alone.

By the way... the guy lost me when he said:

Link Removed

Public Open Carry is Stupid

by The Bearded Patriot on February 7, 2014
-snip-
"I’m a fervent gun-rights advocate (just as I’m a free-speech, due process, …and all other Constitutional-rights advocate), but open carry has too much the taint of idiocy and those who advocate it do so while ignoring clear facts about American society. -snip- "

and then he goes on to extoll the virtues of concealed carry... but the thing is... concealed carry requires a permit (except in States that already have Constitutional Carry - which IS gun rights) and a permit means the government is in control of who is allowed, but more importantly who is NOT allowed, to have the government's permission (you do understand that a "permit" means someone gave you permission?) to bear an arm in a concealed manner. So that fellow is NOT a fervent gun-rights advocate but is really a fervent supporter of the government regulating the right to bear arms!

Want to know what open carry, you know, exercising the right to bear arms even when some folks think doing so is "stupid" because society has "changed"... can accomplish? And yes, someone actually openly carried a shotgun into a library. Follow the link below....

CADL vs. MOC - Chronological History | Michigan Open Carry, Inc.

Edited to add: The decision in this case is huge for Michigan because it not only stopped the Lansing libraries from banning guns but also stopped any and all "authorities"... like the Downtown Development "Authority"... any Municipal Transit "Authority".. and so on... from banning guns. All because some folks were so "stupid" they actually dared to open carry.

Also:

The problem is the lost culture, the lost morality, the death of the core that once thrived. Until that culture, morality, and core is regained, nothing you do means anything.
The real problem is that there are too many folks who think nothing can be regained because society has changed... and so they do nothing meaningful.
 

That link sent me to an article that repeated all the old, tired, and debunked, myths about open carry that concealed carriers love to trot out yet never seem to be able to provide cites and/or links to actual factual proof those are not myths.

And before anyone cites or links to the remarkably rare instances of open carriers having their gun grabbed... or been shot first please understand that those paltry few instances need to be compared to the DECADES! of open carry just in Arizona alone.

By the way... the guy lost me when he said:

Link Removed

Public Open Carry is Stupid

by The Bearded Patriot on February 7, 2014
-snip-
"I’m a fervent gun-rights advocate (just as I’m a free-speech, due process, …and all other Constitutional-rights advocate), but open carry has too much the taint of idiocy and those who advocate it do so while ignoring clear facts about American society. -snip- "

and then he goes on to extoll the virtues of concealed carry... but the thing is... concealed carry requires a permit (except in States that already have Constitutional Carry - which IS gun rights) and a permit means the government is in control of who is allowed, but more importantly who is NOT allowed, to have the government's permission (you do understand that a "permit" means someone gave you permission?) to bear an arm in a concealed manner. So that fellow is NOT a fervent gun-rights advocate but is really a fervent supporter of the government regulating the right to bear arms!

Want to know what open carry, you know, exercising the right to bear arms even when some folks think doing so is "stupid" because society has "changed"... can accomplish? And yes, someone actually openly carried a shotgun into a library. Follow the link below....

CADL vs. MOC - Chronological History | Michigan Open Carry, Inc.

Edited to add: The decision in this case is huge for Michigan because it not only stopped the Lansing libraries from banning guns but also stopped any and all "authorities"... like the Downtown Development "Authority"... any Municipal Transit "Authority".. and so on... from banning guns. All because some folks were so "stupid" they actually dared to open carry.

Also:


The real problem is that there are too many folks who think nothing can be regained because society has changed... and so they do nothing meaningful.

Have you ever read a post that is so spot on that you hit the like button even before you're done reading it?
This one above is one of those posts!


Sent from behind Enemy Lines.
 
FTG-05
You and I have allowed our culture to be stolen from us. Pretending that winning the culture back doesn’t matter and that the mere exercise of flagging rights will fix things is myopic idiocy. No wonder you fail to regain what you once had.
The problem we face has nothing to do with guns or our God-given rights to keep and bear them. The problem is the lost culture, the lost morality, the death of the core that once thrived. Until that culture, morality, and core is regained, nothing you do means anything.
read More:Link Removed

"Life is hard, being stupid makes it harder." J.W.

I notice you did not respond to any of the questions I posed. Excellent. It proves your full of you-know-what, just as I thought. Typical of OC Fudds.
 
It is legal to open carry a rifle in Texas. The problem is public acceptance. Some LEOS will talk about they had a call to investigate. Others will just cuff you and cart you to jail. I personally would be supportive of open carry, but i prefer to CC. I will be going to an open rally in Alvin Tx in April.
 
It is legal to open carry a rifle in Texas. The problem is public acceptance.

You'd think, the gun loving state known as Texas, would be the most accepting right? ...well, my beliefs, there is only one good way to help guns become normal, that's too open carry.

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
 
I notice you did not respond to any of the questions I posed. Excellent. It proves your full of you-know-what, just as I thought. Typical of OC Fudds.

Young man, you may do as you please. We all have much to learn. Things are going on in this country that we are ignorant to.
The Government wants to control everything in our lives. And they are getting good at it. Our guns & our intellect, THE SECOND A!
Is the reason we still have little freedom left. We 'the people' need to find common ground to put FREEDOM/LIBERY back together.
Big BRO wants us to fight among each other. Are we feeding the machine? Are we off topic or right on? I don't know?
The Left will play on emotions. Fact & reality is quickly disregarded. I am open to logical conversation. We can't fix the U S A on this
blog. Stay safe, Keep your gun clean, ammo dry & your knife sharp.
 
I noticed that you missed the point. I'm asking you to think for yourself. Take and apply all information. Throw away information that is not useful.
What started our argument? we're in the right chapter, maybe wrong page?
 
FTG-05, Just would like to know how many classes have you taught?

How much have you open carried? If it's not much or none at all like seems fairly evident, perhaps it is you who could learn something from FTG-05. His questions were perfectly valid and responsive to what you said before he asked them. Simple courtesy would dictate that you at least address them, if not actually trying to learn what could be learned if you actually thought about them objectively.

Pulling out the "instructor card" in a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with whatever it is you instruct on is a red herring of the first order. Most of us who have been around here for awhile could point to some of the most brain-dead posts made by people with "Instructor" next to their nicks.

One thing you may not even get is that someone who OC's on a regular basis doesn't require the services of a state certified instructor in most states. We don't need those services here in Alabama even for CC, but it stands to reason that you would prefer everyone sees CC as the only "rational" option. You profit from the permission slip system. OC'ers bypass the need for you in most states.

I have absolutely nothing against profit or well-trained instruction (or instructors), but you will never win a point around here just by flashing your Instructor Badge. Only better, more substantial arguments than the one(s) being responded to win points around here.

Blues
 
FTG-05,
I started teaching Kansas Concealed Carry in 2010 since then I have taught 83 classes & about 500 students.
(Kansas is also an "Open Carry State")
In 2006 I retired from the Air Force as a Master Sargent. I have 28 years of service. Also taught combat arms.
Pistol, Rifle & machine gun. Was Team Captain of the combat rifle team for eleven years. I like this blog to see
other peoples thoughts & opinions & to share mine. I'm not bragging, selling anything, nor am I trying to make
enimies with anyone. I do not open carry... that is my personal choice. YouTube has lots of examples of folks
being harrassed for open carry. Like I said before, I don't need the drama. I'm 58 y/o there has been enough
drama in my life. check out youtube and see for yourself:
Thanks for your input & Ideas.
 
FTG-05,
I started teaching Kansas Concealed Carry in 2010 since then I have taught 83 classes & about 500 students.
(Kansas is also an "Open Carry State")
In 2006 I retired from the Air Force as a Master Sargent. I have 28 years of service. Also taught combat arms.
Pistol, Rifle & machine gun. Was Team Captain of the combat rifle team for eleven years. I like this blog to see
other peoples thoughts & opinions & to share mine.
I'm not bragging, selling anything, nor am I trying to make
enimies with anyone. I do not open carry... that is my personal choice. YouTube has lots of examples of folks
being harrassed for open carry. Like I said before, I don't need the drama. I'm 58 y/o there has been enough
drama in my life. check out youtube and see for yourself:
Thanks for your input & Ideas.
Please note the portion of your post I put in bold just for emphasis because here are my thoughts and opinions....

While I firmly believe the decision to legally carry... either carry openly, concealed, or both at the same time, is a personal decision I wonder why folks would let themselves be intimidated into not exercising the choice to open carry just because they might be hassled. But what is annoying is for someone who says they support the right to bear arms to bash folks who bear arms in a way they don't approve of... which is a back handed way of trying to intimidate folks into not open carrying.

Taking back our ability to exercise the right to bear arms from a restrictive government and an ignorant populace isn't going to get done without enduring some "hassle". After all... if we let our fear of being "hassled" stop us from exercising the right to bear an arm openly then the anti gunners have won without even needing to pass any laws to stop us..... because we ourselves let the fear of being hassled stop us.

By the way.... your link to the video is messed up but I copied and pasted it from your post (shows when quoting) and the video itself doesn't show anyone freaking out. No one ran out of the store screaming.. no children messed their pants... and when the open carriers were asked to leave they immediately complied.... so where was the horrific "hassle"? The part where they were asked to leave? Is that considered "hassle"? If it is then some folks have a very low threshold of what constitutes "hassle" they are willing to endure to support the right to bear arms.

Oh... and our Founding Fathers built this country/wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights knowing full well they were going to be so much more than just "hassled".
 
FTG-05,
I started teaching Kansas Concealed Carry in 2010 since then I have taught 83 classes & about 500 students.
(Kansas is also an "Open Carry State")
In 2006 I retired from the Air Force as a Master Sargent. I have 28 years of service. Also taught combat arms.
Pistol, Rifle & machine gun. Was Team Captain of the combat rifle team for eleven years. I like this blog to see
other peoples thoughts & opinions & to share mine. I'm not bragging, selling anything, nor am I trying to make
enimies with anyone. I do not open carry... that is my personal choice. YouTube has lots of examples of folks
being harrassed for open carry. Like I said before, I don't need the drama. I'm 58 y/o there has been enough
drama in my life. check out youtube and see for yourself:

+1 for everything Bikenut said.

It's weird what people will key on concerning the never-ending OC vs. CC debate. I wanted to remind myself what this thread started with, so I double-checked to refresh my memory. It certainly has nothing to do with one's qualifications to teach gun related skills. It has nothing to do with whether or not someone prefers CC over OC. I was a bit surprised to see a "Like" for the OP from caveatimptor, because it seems to me that what Navy was attempting to highlight and to some degree, mildly mock, that being an open fear of, or hostility towards OC in general, is exactly what caveatimptor has chosen to take the position of in his replies here. Let's all remind ourselves what the OP said:

Private Shooting Range, Texas CHL, Hunter Education Near Flower Mound | Denton County Sports Association - DCSA Blog, Indoor handgun range in DFW metroplex

In conclusion for now as it relates to the 30.06 signage: Currently, in the locations where many of us go on a daily basis, there are just not all that many 30.06 signs. What many of us fear is that if any "Open Carry" legislation happens to get passed and is not very carefully worded in regard to signage (as in NOT tied to the current 30.06 verbiage), it could result in just enough "Man with a Gun" calls to 911 to create an epidemic of wasted police resources, business owners and managers not wanting any more "panic attacks" in their buildings or parking lots and a rash of new 30.06 signs going up at thousands of locations where there are none present today.

Are they really that afraid of the sight of a gun in public in Texas?!? Wow. Feel free to leave comments on their blog....

Seems "panic attacks" and "they freaked out!" are very similar concepts, but both are equally untrue, or at least equally wildly exaggerated. And interestingly, both come from the "pro-gun" side of the argument. I put "pro-gun" in quotes to highlight the seeming oxymoronic nature of the position.

I have to admit to having the same discomfort over always having to explain myself for OC'ing before I actually started doing it. For 35 years I thought that CC was "best." But the fact is, I had no clue what was better or worse because I never gave it a second thought that anything other than what I went to City Hall or the Sheriff's Office to ask permission for was even an option. I don't like cops. Never been particularly comfortable around them, and after a rather eye-opening event with one whom I had become friends with, just don't consider them as trustworthy at all anymore. But I'm a pretty bright guy. I know the law. I know what cops' limitations are under it. I am fairly articulate. And the main thing is, I am convinced that OC is a much better way to deter criminals from seeing me as an easy mark, so if I have to use my skills to articulate the law and assert my rights under it to a cop every now and then, so be it, I will not be cowed by idiots who don't understand that my rights supersede their authority to trample upon them!

That said, I have been OC'ing since last August, and to this day have not had anyone, cop or otherwise, say a single word to me about it. The other day I was walking my dog out in my (unfenced) backyard just after getting home from running errands, and my neighbor came out and started washing his car. We stood maybe 10' from each other chatting for about 10 minutes or so, and he never said a word about why I was carrying a gun or doing it openly.

Point being, my fears over the last 35 years of others knowing that I carry a gun have been wildly overblown. Even if they were wholly accurate though, why would what someone else thinks about me engaging in a perfectly legal activity matter except for the fact that I am cowed by my own fears? When fear of exercising your God-given rights overrides your ability to push through it and actually exercise them, you don't have any rights to begin with. And I'll guaran-damn-tee ya one thing for certain, your concealed carry handgun never deterred a single bad guy from trying to make you a victim. You are just as vulnerable to an attempt to victimize you as any other schlub on the street while CC'ing. Whether or not you're up to the task to defend against it is not the point. The point is that you are only defending against it after the attack has begun. I believe in deterrents. I believe that if a BG sees my head on a swivel, sees me standing upright and confident, and then sees my OC'ed weapon, I am not going to be a likely victim for him, and therefore, am less likely to have to shoot someone, less likely to be injured or killed myself, less likely to spend a minute in jail, less likely to have my financial life ruined, and more likely to be able to respond to an attack effectively should all those other odds be challenged. CC puts you behind the tactical curve. 35 years of my own personal experience proves that to my satisfaction.

Blues
 
I heard this story when I took my CCW training in Delaware. A man went into a Walmart store in Georgetown with a open carry pistol. He was shopping for groceries. A customer saw this and reported it to the store management. The Manager called the local police and and said they had a man in the store with a gun. The officer taking the call asked if he was threatening anyone or had the gun out of the holster. The manager said no, that he was shopping for groceries and some customers were complaining. The officer informed the manager that open carrying a gun in Delaware was legal. The manager was getting a little snitty by then and said he wanted the police to come over and make the man leave. The police said they could not do it because he was within his rights and could sue for false arrest. The manager asked them to come and make him cover the gun up. The police told the manager this. If you throw the man out he can sue you and the store, as he is within his rights by law and there is no posted sign saying it was a "gun free zone'. if the man was told to cover the gun he could not legally do that unless he had a concealed carry permit. There was nothing the police could do and would not be sending an officer over. The manager slammed the phone down in the officers ear. As I am told, Walmart has no national policy against carrying in the store unless it is against state law. Delaware is an open carry law state, with the usual restrictions like, Gov. buildings, schools, Post offices, etc. Now I admit, I have lived here for 50 years and never seen someone open carry in stores. But I sure can tell you I know a lot of us that legally carry concealed every where legal.
 
But I sure can tell you I know a lot of us that legally carry concealed every where legal.

What does "legal" have to do with anything in relation to the topic of the thread or to the event you related prior to saying that? If DE is an OC state, then everyone who does OC does so legally out in the open every where legal, right?

Blues
 
I heard this story when I took my CCW training in Delaware. A man went into a Walmart store in Georgetown with a open carry pistol. He was shopping for groceries. A customer saw this and reported it to the store management. The Manager called the local police and and said they had a man in the store with a gun. The officer taking the call asked if he was threatening anyone or had the gun out of the holster. The manager said no, that he was shopping for groceries and some customers were complaining. The officer informed the manager that open carrying a gun in Delaware was legal. The manager was getting a little snitty by then and said he wanted the police to come over and make the man leave. The police said they could not do it because he was within his rights and could sue for false arrest. The manager asked them to come and make him cover the gun up. The police told the manager this. If you throw the man out he can sue you and the store, as he is within his rights by law and there is no posted sign saying it was a "gun free zone'. if the man was told to cover the gun he could not legally do that unless he had a concealed carry permit. There was nothing the police could do and would not be sending an officer over. The manager slammed the phone down in the officers ear. As I am told, Walmart has no national policy against carrying in the store unless it is against state law. Delaware is an open carry law state, with the usual restrictions like, Gov. buildings, schools, Post offices, etc. Now I admit, I have lived here for 50 years and never seen someone open carry in stores. But I sure can tell you I know a lot of us that legally carry concealed every where legal.
Until about 7 or 8 years ago the only time anyone saw anyone open carrying in Michigan was during hunting season. People just didn't know that open carry has been legal in Michigan since 1837. Then a very few courageous guys got together and decided to actually carry their holstered pistols during their everyday activities. Then more people decided to do it too and... and thus Michigan Open Carry was born.

Michigan Open Carry, Inc. | Nothing to hide!

Some people got hassled by the police, some people got proned out and arrested, and many people sued the police depts and won. The interesting thing is those who sued didn't try to make mega bucks but only wanted to cover their costs and require the police be retrained in the legality of open carry. And things progressed to the point where even Michigan's State Police issued a legal update so all the cops would know open carry was legal.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf

The media jumped on all of this in the usual sensationalizing manner... especially when it came to folks open carrying in schools (a concealed carry pistol free zone)... but the upshot of all that coverage backfired because many folks learned that open carry was legal. And, with the unwitting help of the media, just a few folks with guts enough to go against that silly "just because you can doesn't mean you should" mentality ended up educating a large share of Michigan's population.

And at this time it is rare to have an open carrier hassled in Michigan... all because people actually had the guts to exercise their right to bear arms despite all the fear mongering that people would "freak".

My personal experience open carrying ranges from spirited "discussion" with my local police chief (who now understands and knows open carry is legal) to being harassed by an off duty cop in a bathroom while I was busy emptying my bladder to having a cop stand at my side and tell someone who was harassing me that I was in the right and they were wrong. Not to mention all the positive talks with other folks who were curious about wearing a sidearm along with many compliments for not being afraid to actually exercise the right to bear arms in plain sight.

Oh yes... and as far as that old "don't do it because if you do they will pass a law so you can't do it" stupidity..... please refer to post #21 for a link to how open carry resulted in the courts upholding the right to bear arms in Michigan.... and part of the reason that went to court involved a guy who open carried a shotgun into a library.

All because a few people decided to actually dare to ............ exercise their right to bear arms.
 
In the 50's I was a kid living in El Paso. We used to walk down the block with our 22's slung over our shoulder when we were going to the desert to shoot lizards and rabbits. We were kids with guns walking in our neighborhoods. What in the name of God did you let the loons do to Texas?
 
In the 50's I was a kid living in El Paso. We used to walk down the block with our 22's slung over our shoulder when we were going to the desert to shoot lizards and rabbits. We were kids with guns walking in our neighborhoods. What in the name of God did you let the loons do to Texas?

We did the same thing in CA believe it or not. When I was 15 Kelly Preach and I hitch-hiked out to Carbon Canyon in the Mojave Desert to stay in his dad's primitive cabin over Christmas vacation. We didn't have our guns slung, but they were in soft-shell cases and it was as obvious what they were as if we did have 'em slung. We got talked to 3 separate times by cops, not wanting to check our weapons for being loaded or anything, but to make sure we weren't runaways. Hell, they were all even friendly! I was 15 in 1970. By 1980, it was all over. I moved in and out of CA three times between '74 and '83, and had enough by '92 when we moved here. I'll never set foot in that cesspool again.

Blues
 
FTG-05,
I started teaching Kansas Concealed Carry in 2010 since then I have taught 83 classes & about 500 students.
(Kansas is also an "Open Carry State")
In 2006 I retired from the Air Force as a Master Sargent. I have 28 years of service. Also taught combat arms.
Pistol, Rifle & machine gun. Was Team Captain of the combat rifle team for eleven years. I like this blog to see
other peoples thoughts & opinions & to share mine. I'm not bragging, selling anything, nor am I trying to make
enimies with anyone. I do not open carry... that is my personal choice. YouTube has lots of examples of folks
being harrassed for open carry. Like I said before, I don't need the drama. I'm 58 y/o there has been enough
drama in my life. check out youtube and see for yourself:
Thanks for your input & Ideas.

Cop Threatens Illegal Arrest - Belton, TX - YouTube

Corvallis Police harassment for concealed carry - YouTube

Licensed Conceal Carry Threatened w/ Execution by Canton OH Police - YouTube

Concealed Carry Permit Holder Harassed By Maryland Cop - YouTube

FL Deputy Threatens to Shoot Concealed Carry Licensee and Arrests Him for Lawfully Carried Handgun - YouTube

I surely hope you stop concealed carrying so you don't risk the drama for it. It happens all the time, it's on youtube.
 
A couple questions about the bolded part above:

1. This is based on what, exactly? Since you CC, by your own admission, how do you know that people "are alarmed at the sight of a gun"?

2. So what if people are "alarmed at the sight of a gun"? I'm supposed to give up my right to carry because someone might be "alarmed". Since when did the 2nd amendment get changed to: "... shall not be infringed, unless some metrosexual pansy gets alarmed"....???

3. If you're so enamored with CC, how are you helping our 2nd amendment rights since no one knows your carrying? The only way to get people over from being "alarmed" is, yep you guessed it, is to open carry.

Still waiting for CE to answer these questions.
 

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