OMG - Gun Safety? - Run don't Walk!


2beararms

New member
It's been about three weeks since my spaking new replacement P-3AT came from Kel-Tec and I have not had time to get to the range to put some ammo downrange to check her out, so this morning I had a free hour or so and decided to give it a break in. I took it to one of the local ranges, which has a nice indoor pistol range with about a dozen shooting stalls but normally is very quite on Friday mornings. I bought a 100 rounds of range .380 (which this range requires you use their ammo and use it up during the session - no returns with leftover ammo) and went into the range.

Now this has been a sort of "self policed" range for years with no range master hoovering and telling you what to do, a factor I have actually always liked.

Upon entering I noticed their were three other shooters. The fact that the only equipment on the set-up table was three brand new gun boxes should have been a hint. I went to a stall, hung a target (really just for effect, I was more concerned with did it go bang and did it feed or did it jam. It functioned flawlessly BTW). I loaded up my three magazines with six shells each and fired them downrange. When I stopped to reload I happened to glance back at the set-up table and nearly dropped to the floor.

Now I note, this is my second P-3AT and I also have an LCP so I know these guns well. Standing in front of one of the new gun boxes at the set-up table is a guy, maybe mid forties with a brand new P-3AT in his hand backwards. The top of the gun is in his palm, his thumb is INSIDE THE TRIGGER GUARD, facing the guard at this moment. From my position a few stalls away I could see the magazine was still in the gun and the slide was back about 1/4" from battery ... HELL, that is the standard P-3AT Jam. This idiot has a live round 1/4" from battery and is waving the gun around everywhere trying to figure out what to do. First I watched as the barrel waved past my direction which is when I nearly hit the ground then I watched with amazement as with his finger now ON THE TRIGGER, he began to look down the barrel to see what might be wrong!

I waited until the barrel was pointed at the ceiling and with both hands raised ran over and said STOP... Don't do that, your gonna kill someone or yourself! He looked at me like I was the crazy one. I slowly took the weapon from him and with it pointed at the floor moved carefully back to his stall, aimed the weapon downrange and half-racked the slide placing it into full battery and fired off the round, much to his surprise. Then I removed the magazine and unchambered the next round and tried hard to explain all the signs around that said don't remove a gun from the firing line for jams or to reload, and never remove a loaded gun from the firing line and that if you have a jam you don't understand, lay the gun at the firing line, exit and request help. I also tried to give him the one minute gun safety course ... it's always loaded, don't point it at anything you don't want to kill, etc. And I explained what the jam he was getting was and how to fix it.

I'm not sure if he got the message but I returned to my stall and shot the remainder of my ammo (rather quickly I might add) and decided to leave refinement for another day. I went to the outside area and explained to the shop owner while I was settling up and he said yeah, he will likely have to add an "on-line" range master with all the new guys coming in, even though it will be aggrevating for the old-timers. As we were talking the guy from the stall next to my original freind was putting a red-dot scope on a .22 target pistol. We watched on the video monitor as he put a fresh magazine in, racked the slide and fired two shots then proceeded to take the now loaded and cocked gun back the set-up table with no regard for where it was pointing and started making adjustments to the sight with an allen wrench.

That was when the owner shrugged and said, "gotta go, see ya sometime" and rushed into the range area.

My hope is that these incidents will make them crack down a bit because I am certain that if these two were happening simultaneously they are happening everywhere all the time these days.

It is up to us to stress gun safety to everyone because it will only take one or two accidents to give the anti's all the ammo they need to take ours.

I will not penalize the range yet, and I will go back there to shoot ... primarily because I am usually alone in the range at the times I go... but if newbies are in the range I will be a lot more careful to assess the circumstances next time before I decide if I am going to stay.
 

GeneralSumter

New member
They make you use their ammo in your gun!? :wacko: I hope the price is reasonable. Our indoor range makes you use their ammo if you rent their gun... the ammo is $26/box for .40SW! But I can shoot anything I want through my gun.

Good job on your part for getting involved. Glad it turned out safely. That's scary.
 

2beararms

New member
All the ranges here have the "their" ammo policy in all weapons. They claim it is due to insurance liability and mandated by their insurance company. Of course the real and obvious reason is profit.

Their pricing is mid-line. I can get ammo cheaper at gun shows and sometimes a Wallyworld (if I can get ammo at all). But usually they are pretty much in line with Wally for range ammo.

The, you can't purchase it from them and then bring it back later rule is new and I wonder how that is going to play in the long run.
 

OldOwl

New member
Sounds like there's no required safety course in Florida to own a hand gun huh?

I'd say that range is an accident waiting to happen. Hope they have liability insurance and know a good lawyer. Anyone does something stupid like that at any club I've ever been in, you're gone.
 

2beararms

New member
Sounds like there's no required safety course in Florida to own a hand gun huh?

That would be correct, the first time a course is required is for a carry permit.

Unfortunately, as much as I hate that there are these idiots out there, I feel it is the responsibility of those selling them the gun to at least talk the basics. I would really HATE to recommend MORE government regulation in any way... PERIOD!
 

Wolfling68

New member
I'm kind of torn up about this as well. I really don't think the government should be involved, especially the Feds, but I really wish people would get more training, and I reallty think first time buyers should have to take a safety course..........maybe have the state require a (NRA, etc, not a govmnt run) safety course cert before you can buy your first gun, or something similar.
 

OldOwl

New member
I thought you'd like this. :sarcastic: My buddy who is also an NRA safety instructor emailed this letter to me today. It's not from our gun club. I think he must have gotten the job installing cameras.



Special Note on IDR Safety- or
lack thereof*

<<<<<<<<<<<< ALL SHOOTERS USING
THE IDR >>>>>>>>>>>

During the work party this past weekend_ too many holes were found in
the ceiling tiles and side panels. Some penetrated the duct-work
ventilation_ apparatus in several locations close to mid-range and even
closer to the shooting line. *This is unacceptable and represents
laziness, or total lack of personal firearms safety by some of our
members.* There is no reason whatsoever this should be happening. There
were also many holes found in the side-panels of which the angles
suggested firing "cross-range". AGAIN, UNACCEPTABLE. If ANY MBSC member
is caught doing this henceforth, disciplinary action will be taken
including suspension from the IDR. All holes were either a 40 or 45
caliber. We will be monitoring on a daily basis by cross checking
keyfob entries matching them to the sign-in register in the IDR.

Please, if you can't shoot any better than that or are new students of
instructors using the range for certification, PLEASE USE THE OUTSIDE
RANGES UNTIL YOU CAN HIT THE SIDE OF A BARN! The club will be looking
into cameras and a DVR soon. *_Holes will be patched and the sign-in
book will be monitored to see WHO uses the range when and what caliber
you're firing. If you receive a call from one of the range officers
don't be surprised because this HAS to be nipped in the bud! _* We have
to crack down unfortunately. There is too much damage being done by
careless users and someone is going to get seriously hurt, not to
mention the expense of repairing the duct-work!

*We need to maintain a safe shooting environment at all times.* If the
situation does not improve immediately I am going to recommend the club
close the IDR except for league shoots until members take a MANDATORY
'CLUB SPONSORED' refresher course in firearms safety, $25.00 per
person.* All proceeds go to the club to MAKE REPAIRS!!! *
 
Sounds like there's no required safety course in Florida to own a hand gun huh?

I'd say that range is an accident waiting to happen. Hope they have liability insurance and know a good lawyer. Anyone does something stupid like that at any club I've ever been in, you're gone.


A handgun course is required to acquire a handgun here in the PRHI, but you still see a lot of "unsafe" stuff happening.

A safety course works only if people CHOOSE to follow safe gun handling rules and others LET THEM KNOW when they're doing something unsafe. I've stopped my shooting and tactfully "educated" many folks on various ranges of "unsafe acts" only to get extremely negative responses like "F**K YOU!" or "Don't tell me what to do, I KNOW I'm being safe." I witnessed one guy firing a Desert Eagle (.50AE) in NV who had his thumbs crossed behind the slide :nono: I kindly warned him that this practice could result in serious injury. :eek: After a bunch of hostile words from this man, I decided to allow him to learn via "hands on" experience. After his first shot, he dropped the gun on the bench (probably still had several rounds in the mag) and shook his left hand. There was visible blood on his thumb. He looked at me and said "see, I didn't get hurt". I told him "next one might hurt a little more." Sure enough, next shot caused the slide to break his left thumb! He dropped the gun on the ground and was screaming his head off like a little baby. I stopped my shooting (no need to call "cease fire" only two of us on the firing line), cleared my firearm and walked over to assist. He was hopping around crying and yelling at me. I attempted to calm him down while calling 911 on my cell phone. The gun store personnel came in as I was talking to the guy and helped calm him down as well. The ambulance got to the shop pretty quick and patched the guy up. What got me laughing the most was when he demanded that the store refund his range fee and ammo cost! Once the guy left, the range manager offered me his unused ammo and let me shoot it up. I enjoyed the experience. Who said "A good deed goes unnoticed"?? :biggrin:



gf
 

rdc2co

New member
As an instructor, I see this constantly, even AFTER a safety course. I have had people asked off the range for it. I really don't want to be shot again (yes, I did type AGAIN). If one of my students does it, they're gone- no refund.
I see stupid things like this video:
YouTube - Glock Accident
and cringe. It's NOT funny. Don't be shy about approaching a range safety officer.
 

S&W645

NRA Life Member
Shop and gun range I use always shows the people the need to know things about any gun they are renting or buying. And also has written rules for the range that you must sign after reading. Of course having atleast a couple of people who work there as current LEOs tends to make them a little more safety concerned. They don't require their ammo but will not allow Wolf or Bear ammo or reloads. If you buy their ammo, you get a discount on the range time. The price of their ammo just about matches what you can buy it for online after you include shipping. Example is 230 gr FMJ Remington UMC .45.
Online, 500 rds at $199.99 + $20 s&h + $15 for 1/2hr indoor range time = $234.99
Store, (10) bx/50 @ $22.00 each = $220.00 + $12 for 1/2hr indoor range time = $232.00
 

rdc2co

New member
Shop and gun range I use always shows the people the need to know things about any gun they are renting or buying. And also has written rules for the range that you must sign after reading. Of course having atleast a couple of people who work there as current LEOs tends to make them a little more safety concerned. They don't require their ammo but will not allow Wolf or Bear ammo or reloads. If you buy their ammo, you get a discount on the range time. The price of their ammo just about matches what you can buy it for online after you include shipping. Example is 230 gr FMJ Remington UMC .45.
Online, 500 rds at $199.99 + $20 s&h + $15 for 1/2hr indoor range time = $234.99
Store, (10) bx/50 @ $22.00 each = $220.00 + $12 for 1/2hr indoor range time = $232.00
I'm glad that you are willing and able to help! We all need to stick together, esp nowadays. Wolf, Bear, Tul Ammo, RWS, etc are all steel core, which destroy the backstops and bullet traps. BTW S&W, I know that you already know this, but some other readers probably won't.
I agree with the strict safety rules. I watched a guy changing a magazine all wrong one day. He turned the gun on its side and pointed it right at the stall I had just been in. He jammed the magazine into the well with his finger on the trigger. For those who don't know this, with some guns, when you insert the magazine into a gun with locked-back condition, the slide immediately slams itself closed (thus chambering a round). How the gun didn't discharge, I simply don't know!
 

karle

New member
schools should teach gun classes

as i have said before on another thread...

this is one of the many reasons gun safety should be taught in school....

we have safe sex classes.....we have driving classes......which are not even protected rights in the US ...we should have gun safety or hunter education classes MANDATED for every child.....

should start as early as 3rd grade for basic safety course and graduate up to actual gun handling class later on...

this would also make the "guns are bad" myth go away permanently.....
 

Oldgrunt

Active member
This is my biggest fear of the Glock trigger safety and why I NEVER put my finger on the trigger until I am ready to fire. That seemed to be a young fellow in the film and I hope he realizes what he did wrong so he is able to grow older.:bad:
 
This is my biggest fear of the Glock trigger safety and why I NEVER put my finger on the trigger until I am ready to fire. That seemed to be a young fellow in the film and I hope he realizes what he did wrong so he is able to grow older.:bad:

Roger that Grunt, also if you keep your finger extended along the firearm you're performing POINT-N-SHOOT as demonstrated in another thread. ONLY when ready to fire do you insert finger and squeeze off the rounds.
 

rdc2co

New member
'Glock accident' video

The guy in the video was running with his finger ON THE TRIGGER! It's not the Glocks fault- it's the kids fault for having his finger on the trigger while running. There used to be another video along similar lines involving a 1911. Same thing- finger on the trigger at the wrong time. With these two guys, anytime their finger is NEAR a trigger, it's time for the rest of us to duck for cover....
 

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