Office Carry

[piste]

I tried a few searches but could not find anything on this...but it very well may be out there so feel free to help me find any existing threads on this.

I work in a typical office environment...suits, offices, cubicles, conference rooms, etc. I'm a fairly new CCW holder and trying to figure out how best to carry in the office. I have a great setup in my carry bag to get to and from work with my S&W 642. Once I'm in the office...and I do have an office...the bag is down by the side of my chair. I do have to attend meetings and get about the floor during the day. I have the option to lock up my bag but that just isn't a good solution for me. For one thing my weapon does me no good if I don't have it with me. Most of the time while at work my suit jacket is off so I just have suit pants, shirt, tie, etc. The way I figure my pretty much ONLY option for carry is an ankle rig. Pocket carry would seem just too difficult to conceal...even with a 642. Anything I'm missing here? And any particular ankle holsters come to mind as being best fit for my situation? Any other thoughts or advice. Thx.

 

[stresco]

CrossBreed Super Tuck Holster and a tucked in dark button up shirt. Works for me.

 

[dendrokeeper]

CrossBreed Super Tuck Holster and a tucked in dark button up shirt. Works for me.

Works like a charm. I have a 642 I carry in a super tuck, and I could not be happier.

For ankle I have a Galco ankle rig, the one without the calf strap. It is very comfortable and very concealable.

 

[joelevi]

Most of the time while at work my suit jacket is off so I just have suit pants, shirt, tie, etc. The way I figure my pretty much ONLY option for carry is an ankle rig. Pocket carry would seem just too difficult to conceal...even with a 642. Anything I'm missing here?

Give some serious consideration to "tuckable" inside-the-waistband (IWB) holster, such as the Workman by Mitch Rosen.

With this sort of setup the holster lives between your body and the inside of your pants. Different types of IWBs have different "attachment" mechanisms. The Workman has a leather loop that wraps around your belt to secure it in place. A reinforced strap then drops down along-side the holster, and fastens to the bottom of the holster, allowing a shirt to be tucked in between the holster and the pants/strap. A little blousing of the shirt conceals the bulge and the top of the "loop".

Other IWBs may accomplish the same functionality in a different manner.

In this setup, as long as your shirt is sufficiently thick or dark, you can effectively conceal even a full-frame sidearm.

- JoeLevi.com, Link Removed

 

[spf159753]

Pleated dress pants works very well with a pocket holster and a "J" frame revolver.
It may feel heavy for you at first, but you get used to it.
Don't forget to have a Bianchi speed strip in one of your other pockets.
You can leave your keys in that floor bag.
Get a good belt(Kramer handgun leather) too.
I carry a "J" frame revolver from time to time when in a suit. If I know, I will be taking my Sport Coat off.
Left front Pocket =Revolver
Right front pocket=folding knife.
Left rear pocket=wallet with concealed weapons permit,and I.D.
Right rear pocket= Bianchi speed strip with extra ammo.
But most of the time,I don't take my Jacket off,and carry a 1911 in a IWB holster and rig.

 

[Phreakshew]

Pocket carry, and here's why:

Another vote for pocket carry. Just be sure the holster you pick keeps your gun in your pocket when you are sitting!

Ankle holsters, deep concealment, etc. do not allow for as quick a draw in situations where you might need access, like walking to your car after work at night in a nearly empty parking garage, etc.

Once I was almost accosted by 2 men (both bigger than me) as I was walking alone in downtown San Diego in the middle of the day. As one man tried to distract me by querying me about my watch (which I thought was odd) I noticed in my periphery that another man suddenly started running directly towards us from across the street. Now, being in CA I did not carry a firearm because I was not legally allowed to do so. However, I did have a can of pepper spray in my front pants pocket. I quickly thrust my hand into my pocket, spun around to face both men, on the balls of my feet, in total fight or flight mode. I saw both men's eyes look down, straight to where my hand was - in my pocket, ready to pull out something. Neither man waited around to see what exactly I had. The running man immediately changed course and ran around the block; the first guy waved goodbye, turned around and quickly left also.

It was at that moment that I realized, had I actually been carrying a gun in a deep concealment rig or ankle holster, I may have been screwed. I did not have time to do anything other than quickly reach into my pocket and turn around. I MAY have been able to quickly kneel down, pull up my pants leg, and grab a gun, or I may have been tackled by those a$$holes and risked having a gun taken from me. Whatever you choose as your carry option, practice with it and make sure you can access it QUICKLY.

If your pockets aren't big enough, you can always make them bigger. Are you handy with a sewing machine? If not, I'll bet there's at least a dozen drycleaners in your area that can help you.

If you do decide on pocket carry, DEDICATE that pocket to your weapon and nothing else. No keys, change, etc, that can get in the way of an efficient draw.

Stay safe~
P.

 

[MADnMO]

I have to add my vote for the Crossbreed Super Tuck Deluxe. I carry a full size Glock G-21 in a Super Tuck. It conceals very well and is super comfortable.

 

[fullofdays]

I ride public transportation into my job and work in a high rise. I'm certain that both the train AND the building where I work have a sign that states no concealed weapons. Actually, the train has a sign that says no weapons, smoking, food, loud music, et al... and the building has a sign that says "no concealed weapons" I am very concerned about traveling home late one night and being accosted by a vagrant on the train or en route to my vehicle. Local LEO's apprehended a gang member 3 weeks ago off the train who assaulted a fellow passenger. I was 6 feet away from him and felt in danger for my life. This was all before my permit arrived in the mail this week.

So how can I effectively carry concealed daily with the commute on public transportation and in a high rise where signs prohibit weapons?? Do any forum members carry concealed wherever they please, regardless of validity of the signs??

I'm aware that in my State the laws regarding "no concealed carry" signs have to be very explicit but I'm crossing state lines to work and dont want to loose my job due to a concealed weapon situation...

 

[Wolfling68]

Smartcarry or Thunderwear might also be an option.

 

[Glockster20]

I ride public transportation into my job and work in a high rise. I'm certain that both the train AND the building where I work have a sign that states no concealed weapons. Actually, the train has a sign that says no weapons, smoking, food, loud music, et al... and the building has a sign that says "no concealed weapons" I am very concerned about traveling home late one night and being accosted by a vagrant on the train or en route to my vehicle. Local LEO's apprehended a gang member 3 weeks ago off the train who assaulted a fellow passenger. I was 6 feet away from him and felt in danger for my life. This was all before my permit arrived in the mail this week.

So how can I effectively carry concealed daily with the commute on public transportation and in a high rise where signs prohibit weapons?? Do any forum members carry concealed wherever they please, regardless of validity of the signs??

I'm aware that in my State the laws regarding "no concealed carry" signs have to be very explicit but I'm crossing state lines to work and dont want to loose my job due to a concealed weapon situation...

I generally always thumb my nose at those stupid signs... Unless they have metal detectors at the doors, I'm carrying... they can p*ss off! I recently carried at the Memphs Zoo..IWB...:secret:...:sarcastic: Anyway, if you are working in an office environment as I do, deep concealment is a must. Others have recommended IWB holsters, Thunderwear, Smartcarry, pocket holsters, etc... These are great if you can effectively conceal your weapon. I use an ankle rig with a Glock 27. Not the most popular holster rig among the CCW community, but highly effective when deep concealment is needed. It works great under slacks or dress pants. Not so much under jeans. You can see my rig in my profile photo album. Ultimately the decision is yours whichever rig you decide on. Whatever works best for you.

 

[Daugherty16]

More than one issue here

I ride public transportation into my job and work in a high rise. I'm certain that both the train AND the building where I work have a sign that states no concealed weapons. Actually, the train has a sign that says no weapons, smoking, food, loud music, et al... and the building has a sign that says "no concealed weapons" I am very concerned about traveling home late one night and being accosted by a vagrant on the train or en route to my vehicle. Local LEO's apprehended a gang member 3 weeks ago off the train who assaulted a fellow passenger. I was 6 feet away from him and felt in danger for my life. This was all before my permit arrived in the mail this week.

So how can I effectively carry concealed daily with the commute on public transportation and in a high rise where signs prohibit weapons?? Do any forum members carry concealed wherever they please, regardless of validity of the signs??

I'm aware that in my State the laws regarding "no concealed carry" signs have to be very explicit but I'm crossing state lines to work and dont want to loose my job due to a concealed weapon situation...

First issue: crossing state lines. Presuming you have a resident permit, does your work state provide reciprocity or are you asking if you should carry illegally?
Second Issue: Ignoring the No Weapon signs. I doubt you will find many on this forum who would advise you to ignore the signs, if they are lawful. Find another way. Unfortunately, in some states a stun gun or pepper spray is also considered a banned weapon. How about your hands and feet? Did you attempt to stop the assault? would you have if you had a gun? Are you prepared for those kind of questions and situations? What is your plan to get comfortable carrying, to practice presentation, to learn when you can legally draw and when you can legally shoot?

I personally wouldn't carry across a state line i don't have reciprocity in. Generally it can mean risking a felony charge, and/or loss of your permits, and/or loss of your firearms. Checking the laws for the states in question isn't a good idea, it is mandatory for you, i'd think. I have to "go naked" to work everyday because i work in NYC, and in a Federal Building to boot. I could sneak in my concealed weapon, sure. I hate not having one with me. But above all i am a law-abiding citizen and have to work on changing a law i disagree with, not ignoring it. Besides which, i'm not interested in committing a federal felony. I carry to defend against the criminal that might target me or mine, not to become one.

Maybe i read your post wrong.

 

[billwot]

I ride public transportation into my job and work in a high rise. I'm certain that both the train AND the building where I work have a sign that states no concealed weapons. Actually, the train has a sign that says no weapons, smoking, food, loud music, et al... and the building has a sign that says "no concealed weapons" I am very concerned about traveling home late one night and being accosted by a vagrant on the train or en route to my vehicle. Local LEO's apprehended a gang member 3 weeks ago off the train who assaulted a fellow passenger. I was 6 feet away from him and felt in danger for my life. This was all before my permit arrived in the mail this week.

So how can I effectively carry concealed daily with the commute on public transportation and in a high rise where signs prohibit weapons?? Do any forum members carry concealed wherever they please, regardless of validity of the signs??

I'm aware that in my State the laws regarding "no concealed carry" signs have to be very explicit but I'm crossing state lines to work and dont want to loose my job due to a concealed weapon situation...

I note you're from NC, so I assume your CCW permit is an NC permit. While I'm definitely sympthetic to your problem, you need to bear in mind that carrying in a properly posted "no gun zone" is grounds for revoking your NC permit.

bill

 

[stresco]

First issue: crossing state lines. Presuming you have a resident permit, does your work state provide reciprocity or are you asking if you should carry illegally?
Second Issue: Ignoring the No Weapon signs. I doubt you will find many on this forum who would advise you to ignore the signs, if they are lawful. Find another way. Unfortunately, in some states a stun gun or pepper spray is also considered a banned weapon. How about your hands and feet? Did you attempt to stop the assault? would you have if you had a gun? Are you prepared for those kind of questions and situations? What is your plan to get comfortable carrying, to practice presentation, to learn when you can legally draw and when you can legally shoot?

I personally wouldn't carry across a state line i don't have reciprocity in. Generally it can mean risking a felony charge, and/or loss of your permits, and/or loss of your firearms. Checking the laws for the states in question isn't a good idea, it is mandatory for you, i'd think. I have to "go naked" to work everyday because i work in NYC, and in a Federal Building to boot. I could sneak in my concealed weapon, sure. I hate not having one with me. But above all i am a law-abiding citizen and have to work on changing a law i disagree with, not ignoring it. Besides which, i'm not interested in committing a federal felony. I carry to defend against the criminal that might target me or mine, not to become one.

Maybe i read your post wrong.

+1

I have a CCP in NY but my office is in NJ, so i have to go naked to work all the time myself. I hate it. But I always carry something that I can use to defend myself with: pocket knife (where I can), keys, comb, pen, rolled up magazine, hands and feet, plus what ever is in reach in an emergency.

 

[surfcc]

My S&W 340PD rides well in my right front pocket, in an uncle mike's pocket holster. Pleated pants do the trick. When I go to buy new pants, I always make sure they pass the deep pockets test. Some brands are better than others.

 

[piste]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. Here's some add'l info and thoughts.

Pocket carry: I have a Desantis for my 642...tried it in my suit pants. The pants are just so thin that when I sit down it prints pretty strongly...I am often in meetings with folks sitting next to me. I can't always get to the meeting early to pick a seat of choice...ie. no one on my carry side. Also when sitting I fear the 642 grip might be visible to someone sitting on my right side.

IWB: I long ago decided I much prefer to have all white shirts to have one less piece of clothes to match in the morning . On top of that they are custom made so there's not a lot of extra material. When not at work I carry IWB in street clothes no problem...XD 40 Service in a cheapo Galco cross draw. Works fine. I also have a Supertuck for my XD....maybe one for the 642 might not print even with custom fit white shirts.....something to think about...Minor downside is the transfer from my carry bag to the IWB when I get to and leave work would be more diffictult than with an ankle rig.

Ankle rig: My work environment is not a high risk one so superfast draw is not a priority. I would think the weight would ride better on my ankle than in my suit pocket. Outside the office to/from work is different. But with my work bag set up I can draw and present in 2 seconds or less. I was also thinking...perhaps incorrectly? that an ankle rig is much easier to attach than something like a Supertuck. Could keep the ankle rig in my desk....get to work...sit down...strap it on and load up.

BTW...back story here is I'm a PA resident and just got my CCW about a month ago...what an awesome thing. Took about a week. And to think I lived for years in Commiefornia. I hope to never leave PA...and will do anything in my power to never again live in a state without similar CCW capability.

Appreciate any further thoughts.

 

[Daugherty16]

I hate to be preachy but...

+1

I have a CCP in NY but my office is in NJ, so i have to go naked to work all the time myself. I hate it. But I always carry something that I can use to defend myself with: pocket knife (where I can), keys, comb, pen, rolled up magazine, hands and feet, plus what ever is in reach in an emergency.

You obviously know where i was headed. The post by FullofDays just glared with issues - and I hate to see a legitimate fellow CCW heading off the wrong direction like that. It reflects poorly on all of us, and would just give the anti's more reason to oppose CCW. When i first got my permit, I wasn't anything resembling ready for the awesome responsibility that CCW is - and i'm learning every day how it is more and more responsibility. You can't just strap on a gun and go - that's just the point at which your education really starts. IMHO.

I wondered if FullofDays was actually an anti trying to bait us - and apologize to him/her if i'm wrong. We all believe strongly in the 2nd amendment, but we also have to abide by the state or even local laws that exist. If they are bad laws, we have to get them changed. Doesn't make much sense to go through the (often difficult and expensive) process of obtaining a CCW only to disregard the law afterward.

 

[stresco]

You obviously know where i was headed. The post by FullofDays just glared with issues - and I hate to see a legitimate fellow CCW heading off the wrong direction like that. It reflects poorly on all of us, and would just give the anti's more reason to oppose CCW. When i first got my permit, I wasn't anything resembling ready for the awesome responsibility that CCW is - and i'm learning every day how it is more and more responsibility. You can't just strap on a gun and go - that's just the point at which your education really starts. IMHO.

I wondered if FullofDays was actually an anti trying to bait us - and apologize to him/her if i'm wrong. We all believe strongly in the 2nd amendment, but we also have to abide by the state or even local laws that exist. If they are bad laws, we have to get them changed. Doesn't make much sense to go through the (often difficult and expensive) process of obtaining a CCW only to disregard the law afterward.

Understood! I worked really hard to get my CCP, and it wasn't cheap, 10 months of waiting days off of work, etc. Although I didn't really agree with the judge when he told me that Carrying in NY is a privilege, I can see how it can be and how much responsibility you have to follow the laws once you do carry. I holster my weapon when I am getting dressed in the morning. I goes on my belt before I put my shoes on. Then I take a moment to remind myself of just how much responsibility I am carrying (life or death). It really is a privilege. A privilege that has been given to all of us in the 2nd amendment of US Constitution. One that we should not take for granted because it is one of our inalienable rights. IMHO, it is both a right as an American, and a privilage because we are Americans. Neither should be taken for granted.

I remember when I took the Defensive Driving course for the first time. The instructor told me that having a DL is a privilege that you have to earn every time to get behind the wheel of a car. I was 18 then and didn't really pay him much mind. That was over 20 years ago. I think differently now...

On another note, or back on topic even... I was in Davis Shooting Sports yesterday on RT 17. They are practically across the street from NJ State Line. I asked, "So what do you do when you go into Jersey?" to the guys working behind the counter. They both said "Don't go if you are carrying." One told me "I wont even go over there to buy gas because I am always carrying."

Unless you are crossing over into a state that honors your CCP or you have a non resident permit from them, leave your weapon home.

 

[sambo42xa]

Our new booklet on "Code Of Conduct" just came out, and under Safety And Security it mentions about having a Safe workplace; minimizing the potential for violence on our Company's premises or when engaging in business on the Company's behalf. This means we may not:
Carry of weapons without prior written approval from your local Human Resources and Legal departments. (Firearms require additional approval from the Company's Director.)

I carry my weapon on me concealed here in the shop I work in. It is a small .22LR folding gun/handle that clips on my waistband on the inside of my pants. VERY concealed. I work in a manufacturing repair shop and also do business in the front office at times. There is only a total of like 10 people here. Since this booklet came out recently, I want to get in touch with HR to let them know but on the other hand I May be opening a can of worms too. It states I need written approval to carry a firearm on me. I think by mentioning it, HR is going to start asking me all these questions, ie; "why do you need to carry inside the building; what do you need it for, etc" I can see if it were a Federal Bldg., but we don't even handle any $ over here. We are just a Sales and Service facility. Then what, sorry, we cannot give you written approval? So now my firearm is going to have to stay in the ca,r and the day I need it I don't have it on me? Remember, we don't live in a perfect world and Anything can happen Anytime. Like mentioned on here too, You don't want to break the law because We are the ones who are the law abiding citizen/s.
I hope I didn't go way off topic here but it was also asked about Others concealing in an office enviroment.

 

[fullofdays]

You obviously know where i was headed. The post by FullofDays just glared with issues - and I hate to see a legitimate fellow CCW heading off the wrong direction like that. It reflects poorly on all of us, and would just give the anti's more reason to oppose CCW. When i first got my permit, I wasn't anything resembling ready for the awesome responsibility that CCW is - and i'm learning every day how it is more and more responsibility. You can't just strap on a gun and go - that's just the point at which your education really starts. IMHO.

I wondered if FullofDays was actually an anti trying to bait us - and apologize to him/her if i'm wrong. We all believe strongly in the 2nd amendment, but we also have to abide by the state or even local laws that exist. If they are bad laws, we have to get them changed. Doesn't make much sense to go through the (often difficult and expensive) process of obtaining a CCW only to disregard the law afterward.

I think the substance of my question wasn't clearly communicated in my post yesterday. I was at work dealing with a lot of fire drills and didnt get to spend the appropriate amount of time in crafting my question. I apologize to come across as an anti. I'm carrying my XD M in a crossbreed super tuck rig today as a matter of fact.


Heading in the wrong direction is not my intention. Tha is why I am asking the following: My question has to do more with the interpretation of the following definitions: (In otherwords, does a sign on a train or office building that does not meet these legal requirements carry any weight in a court of law. )

SECTION 23-31-235. Sign requirements.



(A) Notwithstanding any other provision of this article, any requirement of or allowance for the posting of signs prohibiting the carrying of a concealable weapon upon any premises shall only be satisfied by a sign expressing the prohibition in both written language interdict and universal sign language.

(B) All signs must be posted at each entrance into a building where a concealable weapon permit holder is prohibited from carrying a concealable weapon and must be:

(1) clearly visible from outside the building;

(2) eight inches wide by twelve inches tall in size;

(3) contain the words “NO CONCEALABLE WEAPONS ALLOWED” in black one inch tall uppercase type at the bottom of the sign and centered between the lateral edges of the sign;

(4) contain a black silhouette of a handgun inside a circle seven inches in diameter with a diagonal line that runs from the lower left to the upper right at a forty five degree angle from the horizontal;

(5) a diameter of a circle; and

(6) placed not less than forty inches and not more than sixty inches from the bottom of the building’s entrance door.

(C) If the premises where concealable weapons are prohibited does not have doors, then the signs contained in subsection (A) must be:

(1) thirty six inches wide by forty eight inches tall in size;

(2) contain the words “NO CONCEALABLE WEAPONS ALLOWED” in black three inch tall uppercase type at the bottom of the sign and centered between the lateral edges of the sign;

(3) contain a black silhouette of a handgun inside a circle thirty four inches in diameter with a diagonal line that is two inches wide and runs from the lower left to the upper right at a forty five degree angle from the horizontal and must be a diameter of a circle whose circumference is two inches wide;

(4) placed not less than forty inches and not more than ninety six inches above the ground;

(5) posted in sufficient quantities to be clearly visible from any point of entry onto the premises.

Discuss

 

[Guthumba]

Heading in the wrong direction is not my intention. Tha is why I am asking the following: My question has to do more with the interpretation of the following definitions: (In otherwords, does a sign on a train or office building that does not meet these legal requirements carry any weight in a court of law. )




Discuss

I have come across this same issue myself on a number of occasions. In particular, there is a movie theater my wife and I patronize that has a "No Concealed Weapons" sign that does not meet the law's requirements.

Now, in the past, I have carried into this establishment as--the way I see it and interpret the law--their signs have as much legality as one that says "No Redheads Allowed". My wife, who is a prosecutor with the state's Attorney General's office, had stated that she believes that this interpretation is correct and would hold up in court.

HOWEVER, she has also requested that I not carry into these areas as this question of "interpretation" would most likely be addressed in a criminal courtroom and not in the parking lot with a local deputy sheriff. She indicates that she firmly believes an officer would default to making the arrest and letting the Solicitor decide whether or not to file charges.

Having spent years as a defense attorney as well, she has reminded me that this period of time in which the Solicitor is choosing whether or not to pursue charges could range from 4 to 6 months.

This means that if you were arrested in this scenario your weapon would be confiscated, your CWP revoked, and you would be incarcerated. You would have an opportunity to make bail the same day unless it was in the evening, in which case you would spend the night in your local detention center.

If you were unable to make bail you could easily sit in jail for 6 months waiting for this issue to be resolved. This may seem extreme, but my wife reminds me that she had a client who could not make bail and was incarcerated for over a year before his charges were dropped.

It is a very tricky situation and, should you choose to carry into anyplace that has these non-compliant signs you better have 1) very good concealment, 2) a copy of the law in your pocket, and 3) the phone number of your trusty defense attorney "just in case".


It has taken several discussions with the wife to pull me out of the "I'm not doing anything illegal" and "I am carrying fully within my rights" mentality and to make me a little more aware of the practical consequences of my decision to step into the "gray area" of law and intent.