OC' er stops robbery just by being visibly armed.

[Grognard Gunny]

Why do we always end up in the same place with these discussions? It's maddening.

Most of us are reasonable humans. Forget you are a responsible CCer or OCer for a minute. Pretend you're some thug. Are you really going to go pick a fight with someone because he's wearing a pistol? Really? Even being around guns my whole life, seeing one out in public, on a cop or even a mere mortal, always sends the tiniest "danger" message to my brain.

The only people I can see being provoked into attacking an OCer are gangstas looking for trouble anyway, or black-clad ninjitsu-like international jewel thieves who have been planning a million-dollar heist using high-dollar tactical equipment they have been training with for the past eighteen months and who are not going to let Joe Opencarry ruin their perfect getaway.

And don't even throw around the "element of surprise" discussion. The only person who is ever surprised in these situations is YOU. SURPRISE you've got to shoot some dirtbag today, and dammit, you had other, more important things on your agenda. And you know what? You're going to get the job done if you're open carrying, concealed carrying, or carrying a friggin sack of potatoes.

.... and it takes "localgirl" to boil down all the crap to a logical, well considered statement of probable outcomes. WELL done!

GG

 

[Firefighterchen]

Why do we always end up in the same place with these discussions? It's maddening.

Most of us are reasonable humans. Forget you are a responsible CCer or OCer for a minute. Pretend you're some thug. Are you really going to go pick a fight with someone because he's wearing a pistol? Really? Even being around guns my whole life, seeing one out in public, on a cop or even a mere mortal, always sends the tiniest "danger" message to my brain.

The only people I can see being provoked into attacking an OCer are gangstas looking for trouble anyway, or black-clad ninjitsu-like international jewel thieves who have been planning a million-dollar heist using high-dollar tactical equipment they have been training with for the past eighteen months and who are not going to let Joe Opencarry ruin their perfect getaway.

And don't even throw around the "element of surprise" discussion. The only person who is ever surprised in these situations is YOU. SURPRISE you've got to shoot some dirtbag today, and dammit, you had other, more important things on your agenda. And you know what? You're going to get the job done if you're open carrying, concealed carrying, or carrying a friggin sack of potatoes.

.... and it takes "localgirl" to boil down all the crap to a logical, well considered statement of probable outcomes. WELL done!

GG

Im pretty sure Navy, Al, and I have said that repeatedly. The problem is the main proponent to us three is in the type of black clad ninjitsu gang that wants to attack open carriers and from his first hand experience (aka his uncommon sense) will keep telling people it causes more problems (upsets the public, upsets LEO's, targeted first, targeted because of the gun, deterrence value, element of suprise) which are not true. It wasn't too long ago when I trolled with an "element of surprise" post and Localgirl posted a SUPRISE message that SUPRISED a lot of people (not sure if everyone will understand my reference...but they can go find it if they want). I am not sure when she decided to change her mind, but I think she changed it for the better. We are the only ones that will be surprised in an attack, but we will do everything we can to stop it, even if we are naked holding a sack of potatoes. I said this earlier, the only surprise the attacker is going to get is that he didn't pick a victim, and you do not have to be armed to do that.

From what I see, most proponents to gun rights don't hate guns solely because "they are evil," but because they are completely ill informed of what, how, when, and why firearms are used. For instance, I have a coworker that just bought an XD9. I asked him, "why did you choose the 9mm?" Not to spark a debate between calibers, because there are great reasons to get a 9mm. His first response, "Because it shoots farther." He didn't come up with this conclusion on his own, it was another gun owner that told him that. What Navy, Al, and I are trying to accomplish is stopping/correcting the ill information that is being passed around. How will it ever stop if there aren't people like us? I know you have stated you have banged your head against that wall long enough, and I am glad you were banging that stupid wall before. Now its my turn to bang my head against that stupid wall and hope that maybe you cracked it and I can tear it down. Or maybe I will crack it, and someone after will tear it down. But we cant stop, we have to be like a river, and be persistant, because there is a big friggen dam in our way now (thanks Gov! SARCASM) and we are slowly tearing it down.

 

[localgirl]

.... and it takes "localgirl" to boil down all the crap to a logical, well considered statement of probable outcomes. WELL done!

GG

Aw, shucks. (blushing)

 

[Grognard Gunny]

Where did the story have a sheepdog in it? Im not seeing a sheepdog that is actively going out to bust gangs or protect convenient stores. Just a being in the right place at the right time.

Don't know about you, but if I were suddenly thrust into a robbery situation, I'd rather doubt I would consider it being in the right place at the right time. The exact opposite, in fact.

Is THAT the difference between Sheepdogs and non-Sheepdogs? Situational "attitude"?

GG

 

[Firefighterchen]

Where did the story have a sheepdog in it? Im not seeing a sheepdog that is actively going out to bust gangs or protect convenient stores. Just a being in the right place at the right time.

Don't know about you, but if I were suddenly thrust into a robbery situation, I'd rather doubt I would consider it being in the right place at the right time. The exact opposite, in fact.

Is THAT the difference between Sheepdogs and non-Sheepdogs? Situational "attitude"?

GG

I agree if it was during the actual event of the robbery I wouldn't consider it that either. Attitude definitely plays a big role in sheepdogs...I am just wondering why being a sheepdog is so bad. Is it bad for someone to make the decision that they do not want to see people suffer, and that they have to get involved, whether it is a medical emergency, a car crash, a fire, a robbery, a rape?

 

[Grognard Gunny]

Well..... you might have a point there. Someone who doesn't have the common sence enough to know to stay out of other people's wars just MIGHT be of some use..... Maybe to draw the BG's fire long enough to allow the original victim to "bag it" the hell outta there!

Leaving the "hero" as the fall guy, or, at least, the current "target". I'm sure someone will speak highly of you in your eulogy.

Arf. Arf! Said Sandy! (LOL!)

GG

 

[Grognard Gunny]

As for people "suffering".... I have seen it all my life. You know what? For 99.9% of it, there wasn't/isn't a single, solitary thing I, personally, could do about it.

After a while you learn not to fret about it needlessly. It's there. It exists. That is knowledge enough. STILL ain't a thing you can do about it. That is wisdom enough.

You keep your sanity any way you can.

GG

 

[Firefighterchen]

Do you believe police, firefighters, paramedics, the group of people that just saw a car crash and pulled the mother and 2 sons out have no common sense or any purpose since 99.9% of the time there is nothing that could help? I know I am not as old as you are, but in my life, 99.9% of the time there is something that can help. Maybe that's another way of looking at it, sheepdogs feel there is hope left, and those that do not like sheepdogs feel there is no hope left.

 

[Unfettered Might]

Where did the story have a sheepdog in it? Im not seeing a sheepdog that is actively going out to bust gangs or protect convenient stores. Just a being in the right place at the right time.

Don't know about you, but if I were suddenly thrust into a robbery situation, I'd rather doubt I would consider it being in the right place at the right time. The exact opposite, in fact.

Is THAT the difference between Sheepdogs and non-Sheepdogs? Situational "attitude"?

GG

I agree if it was during the actual event of the robbery I wouldn't consider it that either. Attitude definitely plays a big role in sheepdogs...I am just wondering why being a sheepdog is so bad. Is it bad for someone to make the decision that they do not want to see people suffer, and that they have to get involved, whether it is a medical emergency, a car crash, a fire, a robbery, a rape?

There's nothing wrong with sheepdogs. Police, EMTs, firefighters, the military, they are all sheepdogs. If a civilian off the street runs into a burning building to rescue a child, or one holds compression on a bleeding wound of an unconscious persion until paramedics arrive, they are touted as a hero. But if they use a firearm to prevent a murder or robbery, some here would chastise them for their actions and in my opinion, the ones doing the chastising are cowards and look for any reason to belittle that person for their bravery, so they themselves don't have to accept that they, in fact, are cowards.

 

[Grognard Gunny]

OK, we have evolved from armed BG thwarting (object of discussion) to general response by PAID sheepdogs in society.

I believe I am going to call "foul" on that one. We all know the value and the courage of "first responders". Let it be.

My point of discussion is and was centered on a personal response to someone else's "war" involving BGs in a bodily harm mode. There are two "types" of sheepdogs ready and able to handle this sort of "trouble", LEOs and Military. I will more than cheerfully "call them in" to save the day.

As for the rest of it..... I'd rather think my wife would be ticked as hell if a made her a widow by trying to be a "hero". That..... and my "Batman" suit doesn't fit as well as it used to! LOL!

GG

 

[Firefighterchen]

The majority of fire fighters are volunteer. By a large margin. We know there aren't enough police to protect everyone all the time. My wife would be sad if she became a widow when I was trying to help, but that is still a part of my character she fell in love with. Whether it's dying on the job or helping someone off duty, I can say my life has been fulfilling because I made a difference. Like you said, we all need to find ways to keep our sanity, this is my way, helping people. No Batman costume needed.