New to the site and a Shooter


OP and the event described highlights a couple of good learning points:

1. Your world will be turned upside-down following a shooting, and that’s if everything about it was absolutely righteous and in accordance with the law. If any element of it wasn’t, your life will go downhill even faster and bottom out much deeper.

2. Especially while armed, NEVER initiate a confrontation or initiate contact that would likely lead to a confrontation. If you become involved in a situation that is escalating towards a confrontation you should seek to de-escalate and withdraw immediately if at all possible. It’s absolutely not about who’s tougher or whose gonads are bigger and brassier or even who’s right. It’s about one of the cardinal rules of successful gunfights in the civilian sector----AVOID THE GUNFIGHT/GUNPLAY ENTIRELY!!

3. If I understood the narrative presented correctly, there were several opportunities to just retreat to the house, lock the door, and decide how to handle this with the neighbor. Meeting with drunken belligerence at the fence was the first and best time to retreat. Once safely inside at that point, you have options, all much better than shooting someone:
a) call the police and file a noise complaint.

b) call your neighbor and try to work it out then.

c) wait until tomorrow and take it up with your neighbor then (maybe with the police present).

-Meeting with drunken belligerence and threatening speech was DEFINITELY the time to retreat. Get safely inside, call the police.

-Meeting with drunken belligerence, threatening speech, and overt threatening behavior (neighbor up on the fence, one leg over, etc.):

Make an expeditious retreat to the house, facing the threat, until safely inside. Verbalize “we’re going inside, leave us alone, don’t follow.” Let them hoot & holler. Call the police and file a complaint. At that point in time, it is probable Mr. Tough-guy neighbor just might have ended up under arrest for disorderly conduct and menacing behavior.

A little arm-chair analysis here, but I'm convinced, based on the narrative given, that it could have been avoided and handled differently at significantly less risk. According to the narrative as given, I don't think he should have been convicted, but I can certainly understand an arrest and charges. When they first arrive on the scene, the police see someone has been shot and that you were the shooter. With no video to corroborate the action as described, the police are going to go on what they can find out from many disputing witnesses. That may not always come out in your favor. Doesn't automatically mean they're corrupt. Just wrong. It can be exceedingly difficult proving you were right. Hence the advice to proactively avoid the gunplay if at all possible.

Darn close but may I add
Allot of details I provided but this escalated extremely fast.
I was three hundred feet from my door.
I had some abdomen surgery some 6 weeks before, (yes I have the documentation) and running was not possible.
With several drunks on a line of the fence my wife and I were in serious snit 300 feet from the door, just pleading with this guy Not to Come Over the Fence.
I did not stand my ground because I had a gun, it actually was a after thought, oh ya Im armed, Hey I am Armed, Do Not Come Over Here. I am Armed.
 

ok.
sit back its a saga.

2009 Texas shooting incident.
set the scene,
I had been a homeowner at that time of 18 years and of late 40yr age. at a burn in Texas, property backed up to small ranch but close side to side neighbors.
3 years prior a new guy moved in to my side property, apron 28-30 yr old, theres already was a 8 foot privacy fence in place. he moved in three black labs in a aprox. 400 sqft. area backing up to my/our fence. clean cut young professional dude. ok cool.... we had some barking issues but no big deal....there was a Sunday, chilling in my pool with a then female friend the neighbor had a X wife or ??? he seemed to be a arguing loudly for some time causing his dogs to bark non stop, we couldn't chill by the pool and if he was into it with a X I didn't want to mess with him, so I left a note on his door to please address the barking, well he came over at the end of the next day, Knocked, (banged) on the door, ok cool, Neighbor greets with you could tell a little temper, ( This guy is 6'3 and FIT). he informs me he is a local boy wants to be a good neighbor and what can we do., cool solved, Inform's me If there is EVER a Problem to Please Let Him Know So He Could Put the Three Labs in His Back Enclosed Patio. Cool Problem solved, Three years goes buy, chill with the guy at the fence while mowing the lawn No issues. He had told me he played football in school, then in college and current flag ball, side personal trainer and martial arts,ok cool,
2009
I had been re-marrid for 6 months and my wife 12 years my junior is a First officer with a Major Arline, Carries a Federal Badge and a issued H&K in the Cockpit.
I had a CCL and had enjoyed shooting sports since I was 4 years old. some 45 years.
On the evening I had attended a Funeral from a Industry person in the evening in a unfamiliar part of the city so I carried, retuned home late that evening past 11pm, wife waiting up, meets and greets,. boys sleeping. nice,at that time i did not remove my pocket belonging's and secure my Ruger sp101. concealed in a holster in the small of my back.
After the 35+ minute drive home I told my wife I was going out back on the garden patio to chill for a few then coming to bed, Almost Midnight now. I go out back an hear he has some type of bbq gathering, My thought were, cool, dmn I could go for some bbq and a beer right now, wish he invited me, smiling to myself, come to find out there they roasted a pig and were drinking and cooking the pig since before 10:30 am. and it was now midnight, a few guest's were playing a game and cheering, ok cool, this cause the there Labs to bark non stop, not cool, so I left and went inside (a/c on, house closed up) back to that back corner farthest away from them and the barking was not cool. crp, we need to get up before 6 for a yard sale, crap what the heck, Ok he said ANY TIME THERE IS A PROBELM LET HIM KNOW, so I went in the dark to the back fence and called out to the people playing the game, a buddy of his came to the fence and asked "Who The **** Are You" crap. " I'm the Neighbor and Could you please chill on the Dogs?" His reply "How Bout WE Come Over There and Beat Your ASS" crap, "Im Just Asking if you can chill on the dogs" Now several seem to be gathering on the other side of the fence, couple minutes of this going on as someone over there goes to get the home owner, my wife wondering were Im at games out back to see about the time the home owner arrivers at the fence Extremely Agitated, crap, He Jumps up Straddling the Fence with One Leg on each side of the fence threatening to come over and beat me up, Im Like, DUDE Im just asking you to chill the dogs, No good, at this Point with Wife like wtf. I actually realize Im armed and inform him that "I Am Armed DO NOT COME OVER HERE, I DO NOT WANT TO FIGHT YOU" My Pilot First Officer Wife Puts up her arms towards the fence reiterating that I Am Armed We Do Not Want to Fight you Do Not Come Over Here, His Party Goers and Now CHEERING Him On to Come aver and Beat Me Up. Im 300 feet from my back door and and there are now Two ready to come over the fence, My wife had moved in front of me by a couple feet telling them as the cheering and laughing "ITS NOT FUNNY,HES ARMED, DO NOT COME OVER HERE" then the magic word, Someone yells out " YOUR TO ***** TO GO OVER THERE" The Duded screaming "IM GOIN TO BEAT YOUR ASS", **** me, as he drops on to my property and with a step was into my Wife as she backed up into me as he there punches around her to hit me pushing her on her upper arms, backing us up a couple steps a tripped from her feet as he try her to the side and Tackled me from Behind taking me down like a board to the ground, hitting my forehead on a brick at the back side of my pool, he sat on my back and spun around to hold my arms down with his legs while beating me with his fists and screaming "IM GOIN TO ******* KILL YOU" ok now this is passed serious, as he also seems to be trying to locate my weapon, My Only thought wa I had to Roll out and Stop this guy, He was obviously DRUNK ad was going to Hurt Me Real Bad or Kill me, I felt a Moment, I made Two Rolls to My Right, as I got up on my knees he was moving towards me s I drew my Holstered SP101 and Fired One Shot into his Mid Section. STOPPED HIM. Sobered him right up, He said " You Shot Me, You Killed ME" at this point I was angry and said to hime " all I did was ask yo to chill on the dogs' he replied " I Know, I was misinformed, It My Fault and thats What Im Going to Tell Them" as we get 911 on the phone I tell him to shut up and lay there, He repeats and we get this on the phone of him saying this to a 911 operator. HORRIBLE SCENE of Having to Shoot Someone. 158 grain hp hit lower right abdomen exiting out his back. So me , him and my wife are there wtf, his partygoers are throwing death threats as we wait for police,
police arrive in force from his side of the fence and another few from my driveway essentially putting me in-between, holly crap, They call out "Who's the Shooter" I reply "ME" All have Weapons Drawn on me Shot Guns, Pistols and a AR or Two. They also have set themselves up in a crossfire situation if any shots were fired, wtf?
they say "Were is the Weapon" I reply "In My Right Front Pocket", I have two set's of cops giving me commands from each side. they say to bring the weapon out of my pocket, i said " Ok Im taking the Gun Out Of My pocket" The two Sets of Cops are giving commands as i remove the weapon with my two fingers and hold it out straight to my side as directed, again both sets of cops are giving command, I ask "What Do You Want Me to Do? Drop It?, Toss It to the Side? What?" I then Tossed it to the side as I heard a officer gasp as he was about to pull his trigger, Ok some dude that looks like the Ajax man slams me down knee in back, cuffed, ok I know gunna have to go thru a process, I tried to continually inform them I was the home owner who's me and my wife were attacked by this drunk neighbor guy and I was the good guy he attacked me it is my property, he came over the fence and attacked us, no good I was told by a Cop to Shut the **** Up. omg. I said I the home owner he attacked us.
Thrown in the back of the car and Im off to town jail. at some point a officer had accused me and reported I was intoxicated but know type of test's were takin and I hand been drinking, wtf again, I'm uncuffed and proceed by a desk guy, and Im like wtf. I'm placed in a cell, holly ****, wtf, hours go buy 3am or so no sleeping I'm eventually asked if i wan tto give a statement and talk, Im like YES. Big Mistake, I would Never Recommend Under Any Circumstance to give a Statement to the Police Without a Attorney Present.
I told him as i told you, He asked why I brought a gun to the back yard? wtf I informed him repeatedly that I had my weapon still on me from the evening and had not removed it had a ccl and was on my fenced property in Texas, he went down the road as if I had picked up my weapon to go confront the neighbor of his dogs then made it out to be some long standing Feud. wtf this is unreal, nothing could be farther than the truth, I was at a funeral of a women who's husband is a recently retire police officer, Im the good guy, he and all of them are and were drunk, wtf, they life flight the guy guess he felt linked a few times but was to survive, wtf. Im informed I'm in serious trouble. omg what?
Now this is not a 5 something am on Sunday. Im put back in a cell and now getting scared. Collect call phone in cell as I call some family members to what going to to get me out, Sunday there no judges to charge you so you have to sit until they get out of church and have sunday dinner I'm informed, omg i can't believe this, know body to answer any questions. nothing, my back to hurts so I get someone and my forehead had a goos egg on it were it hit the ground, they took pictures of my back and forehead, my back was blak and blue from shoulders to mid back. wtf. I sit all day sin day as my family trys to locate a attorney and or bail bondsman to get me out. Finally late afternoon a female tyuged i overheard on the phone called another judge on the phone and they or the da charged me the Attempted Murder and three other G offense. omfg. and set my bail at $100,000.
I was fortunate to have a friend to me on to a high power high end very expensive attorney, I dint know how these thing work as I have Never Been in Trouble In My Life, I had a 20 years in a corporation in a field of some media exposure.
Attorney make a call and Im out of jail on a $100,000 bail on Sunday Night still covered in Blood. nice scene.
Try sleeping after this, Monday comes I call my corporate HQ as I work from home and travel and inform them ill be taking that day off. ok my corp had been sold by a long time family ownership to a big time Corporation, a while latter hq call me and a HR person was on the phone to me that they had receive "calls" and I was placed on admin, leave without pay, wtf, i then took the time to tell the story toe my Long time coworker then superior old friend, but the HR overruled, then I nee to get downtown to meet with this attorney, family in turmoil, wtf is going on, why m I in trouble.
Ok, meet attorny , good ol Texas Cowboy attorney big time, need the 10% of the $100,000 and $70,000 more and you won't do time. and we need this Now to move forward.HUH?
wft? alright I didn't do anything wrong so this has to work out, gotta ponie up $70,000 to stay out of jai.
continued tomorrow I'm tired this is juts gettting started

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If you can't spot a troll post such as the ops... Then I can't help you.
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I already offered once but ill do it again.
If ya hick this is bs I will sit down in a public place with a any of you and you can go over the mountain of legal paperwork and statements.
Including the civil suit that followed.
Im not going to post the News paper link. Ill print it and bring it.
 
If you can't spot a troll post such as the ops... Then I can't help you.
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Yes, you do have that right. However, I do to. I also have the right to be offended when you ridicule others for no reason. Just because you don't think someone is being truthful doesn't mean that they are lying.
 
The two usually go hand in hand....

I thought you'd know that?

Can you say "Hillary"?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Granted, not being truthful and lying are two ways of saying the same thing. However, merely thinking someone is not being truthful doesn't mean they aren't. You're just using your assumption to deride someone without any proof whatsoever.
 
Granted, not being truthful and lying are two ways of saying the same thing. However, merely thinking someone is not being truthful doesn't mean they aren't. You're just using your assumption to deride someone without any proof whatsoever.

I thought the long, drawn out misspelled and grammatically butchered writings gave them away..

Sorry! My bad!


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There is a reason why I didn't post anything more in this thread after my post #2.

I know people that have shot and wounded or killed others, and I know people that were shot by others and survived. None of them post their stories on the Internet, anonymous or not. All of them tell you their stories in brief statements, once they have decided to actually tell you the story. There are very good legal and privacy reasons for this behavior.

As for the stories told in this thread, I am not interested a bit. I don't read poorly written fiction.
 

That sure answers a lot of my questions.

All of those sources support exactly what "Shootist" says happened after the shooting. He said the media portrayed it as him being the aggressor, and he also said that was BS. Now, his writing style and seeming anxiousness to post every minor detail and ask questions of himself (like "wtf?") over and over again is certainly off-putting, but who among us would disbelieve his version if it were told in a way more palatable to actually reading through the whole story? That the media would believe the wounded party against the word of a shooter, even on his own property, is not only believable to me, but predictable, and the sources above fall right in line with both what "Shootist" said and what I would've predicted would be the media-meme if all I had were the basic facts (neighbor dispute, one neighbor enters the other's property to fight, gets shot, end of story, the shooter's guilty as sin) to go on. It seems to me that Shootist had to go into so much detail in order to counter the wall of media sources that he could obviously count on showing up that told what he believes are lies about what happened from the beginning to when he felt he had to fire his weapon.

Those media sources might just as well be giving a biased view in favor of a wounded assailant as reporting anything resembling an accurate account of what actually happened. No questions are answered for me, except the one I already knew the answer to, which is, if I'm carrying, should I argue with someone for several minutes as threats are being traded back and forth, or should I disengage immediately, go back inside, and just accept that my neighbor's dogs are gonna be barking late into the night? Shootist screwed up by not answering that question correctly within himself, but as far as believing what the media said about the rest of it, I take everything they say with as many grains of salt as I take what Shootist says. It's just two perspectives from different viewpoints of a critical event that obviously did actually happen.

Blues
 

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