Nick Burkhardt
New member
FirefighterChen, is there a difference between Celox Z-fold gauze and QuikClot Z-fold gauze?
New injectable sponges for stopping internal bleeding
- Thread starter Nick Burkhardt
- Start date
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Personal preference. If you go with quick clot, make sure it's quick clot 2 (not the original, the original works but it also had a chance of getting so hot in the wound it will burn healthy tissue, that was fixed in the 2nd generation). Celox also has a longer shelf life (3 years instead of 2 years).
If I had a choice, I would get Celox, but if quick clot is more available at a better price I wouldn't second guess getting quick clot.
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Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Maybe we can get a group buy together?
http://www.itstactical.com/store/medical/
See if we can get a discount on some of their packs (slim, fatboy, tallboy).
Link Removed
We could build kits.
I can get a similar kit to the ITS but with Celox for $70 from a local distributor.
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http://www.itstactical.com/store/medical/
See if we can get a discount on some of their packs (slim, fatboy, tallboy).
Link Removed
We could build kits.
I can get a similar kit to the ITS but with Celox for $70 from a local distributor.
Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
mappow
New member
Appreciate the input but I already feel when I leave my house that I "Gear up". Between extra mag., assisted opening knife, CEL phone I'm now going to need a Ju-Ju bag in case I get hit. Not sure if that next step is prudent or not. If I keep a mind set of non-confrontational engagement and ONLY shoot to defend "ME" I think the odds are on the side of restricting myself to bare minimum needs. Currently what I carry is just that IMHO. NOT saying those that live in high crime areas don't need to gear up further, just saying in my part of NC I should be fine. Again, just my personal choice.
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I sent Luke a PM asking if thought it prudent to add a an emergency first aid topic and have not received a response yet. I would imagine the liability of such a topic would prevent it unless one was to place a disclaimer as this is for informational purposes only. NOT to be taken as sound medical advice from a licensed physician.
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I sent Luke a PM asking if thought it prudent to add a an emergency first aid topic and have not received a response yet. I would imagine the liability of such a topic would prevent it unless one was to place a disclaimer as this is for informational purposes only. NOT to be taken as sound medical advice from a licensed physician.
Nick Burkhardt
New member
In addition to a standard boo-boo first aid kit, I have one of these Link Removed plus a 6" Israeli bandage in each vehicle. I am apprehensive about pouring the "Kitty Litter" or Clotting Granules into someones body since I have heard that doctors have a hard time cutting out and removing it. I need to add a Celox Z-fold gauze with x-ray strip, a Nasopharyngeal Airway, a SAM Splint, and a real Tourniquet to my kits.
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
I'm totally, 100% in agreement that you should defend "you" and not worry about those that do not care enough to defend themselves. But, when the shooting stops, and even if you were not involved, just maybe someone's life could be saved by a simple gauze and pressure or a tourniquet.
From my experience, defending yourself is the most important, followed by living until paramedics arrive. When will paramedics arrive? Well...in any gsw call (gun shot wound) the police will always enter first to secure the scene. Average response 10 minutes (rounded), securing the scene 5 - 60+ minutes (depends on size of scene), trauma assessments as paramedics are allowed in, how many patients are there? Are you the first? Are you critical compared to another? Can you survive 30 minutes minimum to over a few hours? This does not really apply to those who live where the sheriff may be an hour away.
Just some things to think about. I am one of those guys that has a backpack with me, my new bag has an empty side for a new medical kit.
For those that are minimalistic, where even a slim kit is to bulky, May I suggest like Nick, get the kit but leave it in your vehicle?
Just for reference. Hemorrhage is the leading cause of death in trauma (roughly 60%), followed by tension pneumothorax, then airway obstruction.
Rhino
New member
Those aren't available. You can get QuikClot though. It is a quick clotting agent as the name implies, which is available in wound dressings/bandages or syringes. QuikClot uses kaolin as a clotting agent rather than the chitosin that the syringes in your link use because chitosin can cause allergic reactions in some people. However, QuikClot comes in a granular form made with zeolite, and the first generation zeolite units produced heat when it reacted with blood, and that caused problems of it's own. Second generation zeolite has been used since 2008, so you shouldn't find any more of it on the market today, but it pays to be careful anyway.
Another handy item to have, especially if one is worried about bleeding out as the original post suggests, is a Combat Application Tourniquet (CAT). The CAT was developed for the U.S. military and was designed to be usable by one person in an emergency. It revolutionized tourniquets, and you'll find one in almost every medic unit in the USA now. One word of caution though. There have been quite a few cheap knockoffs circulating that could be life threatening if you get one of them instead of the real thing. Make sure you get a CAT from North American Rescue, sometimes marked on the item as NAR.
Really as far as what you can do to save your own life until medics arrive, stopping severe bleeding is going to be your primary goal. Obviously you can't give yourself mouth to mouth. So the two products above are probably the best things, or type of things anyway, to consider. There's shock maybe, but stopping blood loss would be the primary action to prevent or treat that anyway, at least in an immediate, life saving manner.
EDIT: Wow. This was a completely different thread when I started typing my reply.
Rhino
New member
Slight correction for you as well. I've heard neck tourniquets work quite well on liberals. I can't confirm that though........
Rhino
New member
The original QuikClot was also nearly impossible to remove after searing itself into a wound. Talk about some pissed off Docs in the ER!
That was mainly for the first generation QuikClot, but it's a point to consider. You don't want to be dropping anything into a wound that will cause problems for further care down the road. There's very little chance you'll have to do this anyway. It's extremely unlikely that someone without medical training will ever recognize the need for stopping an internal bleed, much less know what to do about it. Even if you did recognize such a situation, the time it would take you to see it, realize what it was, realize the life threatening potential and put yourself into a position to actually do something about it would probably exceed the amount of time it would take first responders to arrive in well over 90% of cases in the U.S. In the remaining cases, you make a choice. Do you risk pissing off a doctor or do you save a life? I think that answer is clear. But as I said, it's extremely unlikely you'd ever see such a scenario.
What are you going to do with a nasopharyngeal airway? Do you know how to use one? SAM splints come in different sizes. You'll need more than one. To equip for emergencies without taking up a lot of space, you might consider air splints too. I wouldn't use them to replace the SAM splint, because it isn't easy to get an air splint over broken limbs sometimes, but they can give added flexibility without taking up much more space.
Rhino
New member
Although I volunteer on a rescue squad, I originally got certified because I do a lot of volunteer work supporting events in rural areas where medical help may be some time in coming. I've got four full size bags in my truck that my rescue squad captain calls my mobile trauma unit.
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Each one of my vehicles has a get home bag with first aid equipment, food, ammo, clothing, fire, and shelter for three people.
My backpack is just the essentials for me.
I volunteer for my wife's gymnastics meets and crossfit competitions as the on duty paramedic now. They each have their own first aid kits due to different kind of injuries.
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Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
I train BLS 100:1 to ALS. In my mind, BLS is what saves lives. Being a paramedic has less to do with the equipment, and more to do with the knowledge. There have been many Basics that I would trust to do a better job than some paramedics. Too many people think lowly of volunteers, when they don't realize 80% or more of the EMS and Fire service are volunteer based. For "just being an EMR" you have a lot of knowledge, and such I look forward to learning from your information you post.
Peggy Reist
New member
Definitely needs further study. I think it'll work.
Nick Burkhardt
New member
Until the injectable sponges are available, this pocket sized kit looks promising Link Removed
Contents: CELOX RAPID, SWAT-T, Pair of Gloves
Designed for truly discrete carry, it is just under 1" thick. Weighing just 5.7 ounces, will fit in the standard back pocket of street clothes, and will not bulge or create any discomfort for the user.
The SWAT-T tourniquet doubles as a pressure dressing cover, while the hemostatic agents enable the responder to deal with major arterial bleeding. A pair of nitrile gloves is included for the user's protection.
Contents: CELOX RAPID, SWAT-T, Pair of Gloves
Designed for truly discrete carry, it is just under 1" thick. Weighing just 5.7 ounces, will fit in the standard back pocket of street clothes, and will not bulge or create any discomfort for the user.
The SWAT-T tourniquet doubles as a pressure dressing cover, while the hemostatic agents enable the responder to deal with major arterial bleeding. A pair of nitrile gloves is included for the user's protection.
Rhino
New member
Looks nice. A few comments.
Celox Rapid is something new. It's still kaolin, but it forms a gel that seals the wound, and apparently it does it faster. It still comes in a Z-fold.
This kit still comes with QuikClot though if you don't want the Celox Rapid. See here:
Link Removed
The SWAT-T tourniquet is also something new. You can see more details about it Link Removed. It looks very functional and easy to use. It can also be used more than once, unlike the CAT. However, I can see one limitation when looking at the picture. It's basically a really wide, elastic restricting band. Being wide has some advantages, but it can have one major disadvantage. There may be some times where you may not have the necessary room to use it. Realistically you can double the band up in tighter spaces, but that might be difficult for some, especially when you see some of the finger dexterity required in the video. I could see my wife having difficulty with it, most especially if it was covered in blood. On the other side of the coin, being wide also allows it to be used as a pressure bandage. Anyway, watch the video at the link, imagine doing it one-handed, while you're wounded and in shock, and covered in blood. Then decide if it would work well for you. You can buy the individual items in this kit from the Rescue Essentials web site without ordering the entire kit. Amazon might have the individual items as well. Ordering things individually would allow you to put together what suits you best.
Oh yeah, the CAT takes up much more room than the SWAT-T, so keep that in mind.
This kit reminds me that nitrile gloves are important too. Lots of bad viruses and germs out there. Not latex because some people are allergic to it. A CPR mask might be a good idea too if you ever anticipate the possibility of giving someone CPR. There's lots of good pocket or key chain CPR kits out there that have both a mask and gloves in them.
