national concealed carry in the news again.

[festus]

Concealed-carry reciprocity loaded in Congress - Washington Times

 

[Nightmare45]

While nice, the 2nd amendment already give us this right. But go for it, make sure you train the officers when and if this passes.

 

[Kaze 11]

My only concern with this is it supports the thought that these rights are given to us by a government. It will set the idea in place that if they can grant these rights then they can also take them away.

 

[Gatherer]

It sounds good and would make things a whole lot easier but.........States rights would be in jeopardy. The Fed has no right to tell States what to do. Sets another dangerous precedent.

 

[njsportsman]

The thing the stinks for people like me is well, let me set the stage first. I live in the Peoples Republic of New Jersey and i am a law abiding citizen I do everything by the book. I have no criminal record but yet I still cannot get a CCW here in communist New Jersey. As I said in other post we are a right denied state period. Yes it's a may issue but, I have never heard of anyone getting one unless your retied LE. A citizen has no shot and if I'm wrong and your from your from NJ please enlighten me. Well enough of that rant let's move on. Everyone but the residents of New Jersey will be able to carry here. That's messed up PLEASE don't get me wrong I hope it passes and more power to the state of Illinois who just got their right to carry the law abiding citizens there deserve it. I just pray that this pushes NJ to do the same. thanks for listening and believe me I am working on moving back ti the U.S. very soon.

 

[2Awarrior]

I can't believe these idiot politicians are even discussing it. It's preposterous right out of the gate. The individual state laws are too different for everybody to suddenly say, oh sure, you got a Wyoming CCW? C'mon in!! Welcome to New Jersey.
Please. We've got a lot to do before we can even mention national reciprocity.

 

[BluesStringer]

My only concern with this is it supports the thought that these rights are given to us by a government. It will set the idea in place that if they can grant these rights then they can also take them away.

BINGO!!!!

I'm an admirer of Emily Miller's tenacity in taking on DC's supposed purchase permit system (still no such thing as a carry permit there), but the fact is, she is a gun-rights neophyte and doesn't understand at all the Pandora's Box she's advocating opening.

Not only is the point Kaze 11 makes exactly right, but who on this board could be stupid enough to believe that carry *privileges* wouldn't be reduced to the most restrictive states' statutes within months of a passed national reciprocity bill?

Here's a clue for anyone who thinks national reciprocity has a single thing in the world to do with gun "rights:" Not one single concealed weapons permit in the nation derives from the 2nd Amendment. Every single one derives from the minds of usurpers and tyrants. So there's some states that "grant" their citizens more *privileges* than others, but none of them grant rights, just *permissions* to exercise your rights. Pick a highly-restricted jurisdiction in this country like NYC, or CT, NJ, MD, CA - wherever - and take a gander at your future if you're for national reciprocity that is dictated to the states by the federal government.

Gun owners need to nip this idea in the bud at every forum where this piece is posted. It is the dumbest idea gun owners ever came up with. Only Republicans shoot themselves in the foot more often, or forget that the Constitution, not them, defines our rights and from where they derive. Please think about this and reject the idea to any of your legislators who are inclined to support it. It will mark the end of carry privileges in this country, and combined with ObamaCare, we'll more closely resemble Great Britain than anything our Framers envisioned when they broke the bonds that chained us to them.

Blues

 

[Cnon]

I can't believe these idiot politicians are even discussing it. It's preposterous right out of the gate. The individual state laws are too different for everybody to suddenly say, oh sure, you got a Wyoming CCW? C'mon in!! Welcome to New Jersey.
Please. We've got a lot to do before we can even mention national reciprocity.

They want the make it like a driver's license.


What's so wrong about that?



Cnon

 

[BluesStringer]

They want the make it like a driver's license.


What's so wrong about that?



Cnon

Article IV, Section 1 of the Constitution to the United States of America says:

Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records and judicial proceedings of every other state. And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the manner in which such acts, records and proceedings shall be proved, and the effect thereof.

There's already a law that mandates licensing "acts, records and judicial proceedings" be recognized across state lines. It's called the Constitution and lawmakers from the height of the federal government down to the lowest elected positions on city or county councils are sworn to uphold it, yet we're supposed to believe that since they don't uphold it that a new law telling them to again will fix the problem?

Beyond that though, if the 2nd Amendment was meant to limit the power of the federal government over infringing on the rights of citizens concerning gun ownership and/or carry practices, and the 10th Amendment was meant to keep the federal government out of state issues, how is a new law that regulates any aspect of a citizen having to get permission to keep and bear from any state not infringing on both those rights?

The law is already in place. Asking government to pass a law that only applies to how states recognize licenses amongst and between themselves is in and of itself asking government to grant permissions concerning an issue for which the Constitution prohibits them having any authority to address.

What's so wrong about just getting government to follow the Constitution instead of getting them to write new laws that are redundant to the Constitution at best, and complete and total usurpations of it at worst?

Blues

 

[wolf_fire]

Point one: National Reciprocity would be dealt with from the Federal level down, not the state level up.
Point two: To keep certain states from bellyaching, they would make the requirements for the new Federal license to carry more restrictive, not less. (Vermont, Alaska, Arizona, do you hear this??)
Point three: Our Constitution guarantees that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. It already is by the states.... do we really want the Federal government mucking it up more? How's healthcare going for them?

Anyone in favor of gun ownership and bearing their firearms should strike down any mention of a National Reciprocity bill. It's worse than what we've got now. Deal with what we have now by beating down your legislators in your states that have trampled on your rights. Let them know that the permit itself is un-Constitutional. Let them know that requirements to get a permit are un-Constitutional.

And for those that are going to scream.."but what about mentally ill people and felons". They should be locked up if they are a danger to society. You never make a penalizing law to the law-abiding citizenry to try to keep a criminal from doing something. The criminal will not read the law, nor abide by it.

 

[SR9]

There have bee bills in the past for this, and they never got off the ground. The last bill of about a year ago was the reciprocity of all states, where as the kept their own carry laws, but recognized other states. That way no state had to make much of a change in their own laws. Good idea, but also went nowhere. I don't think a law that dictates what the statutes are will ever go through.

 

[sdprof]

There have bee bills in the past for this, and they never got off the ground. The last bill of about a year ago was the reciprocity of all states, where as the kept their own carry laws, but recognized other states. That way no state had to make much of a change in their own laws. Good idea, but also went nowhere. I don't think a law that dictates what the statutes are will ever go through.

Actually, HR822 passed in the House and was sent to the Senate, where Dingy Harry let it rot in committee.

I wouldn't call that going nowhere. Just not far enough.

Previously, I was firmly in support of bills like this. Now, I'm leaning more on the keep the fed out of it, win our rights one state at a time, at the state level.

One thing I would like, on the federal level, would repeal of the GFSZA. It serves no real purpose, and effectively defeats the reciprocity and recognition of other states' permits by a state. At a minimum, the exemption to the act for those holding carry permits should include permits issued by states that a given state recognizes.

 

[wolf_fire]

Actually, HR822 passed in the House and was sent to the Senate, where Dingy Harry let it rot in committee.

I wouldn't call that going nowhere. Just not far enough.

Previously, I was firmly in support of bills like this. Now, I'm leaning more on the keep the fed out of it, win our rights one state at a time, at the state level.

One thing I would like, on the federal level, would repeal of the GFSZA. It serves no real purpose, and effectively defeats the reciprocity and recognition of other states' permits by a state. At a minimum, the exemption to the act for those holding carry permits should include permits issued by states that a given state recognizes.

The GFSZ is a state issue (sort of). For example in PA, the law reads that one cannot carry in a school except for legal purposes. Well, define legal purposes? Cops can go into a school armed. PA left it up to the schools itself. Unfortunately, most schools decided to go gun free.

Now the Feds have said that unless you have a permit in that particular state you cannot be within 1000' of a school.

See how the Feds mucked that up. If in PA there is a school that does not prohibit the carrying of a firearm and I do not have a license to carry, I could be carrying open. This is perfectly legal in PA. So, if I went into a school that allows the firearm and I don't have a license, then I've committed no local crime, no state crime, but then there's that stupid Federal 1000' crap.

 

[Gatherer]

As I stated previously, it sounds all well and good but States rights would be trampled on. Definitely some pro's and con's.

 

[r1derbike]

Any time government gets involved in many 2A matters, we, as citizens get fusterclucked.

It never goes our way, we get less than we were pushing for in the first place, and leaves us scratching our heads or asses how we could have been so stupid.

 

[vernsimpson]

Any time government gets involved in many 2A matters, we, as citizens get fusterclucked.

It never goes our way, we get less than we were pushing for in the first place, and leaves us scratching our heads or asses how we could have been so stupid.

You are correct. If a National CCL was the law of the land that does sound like a GOOD idea. But as Gatherer ^ said that would trample states right and would give all the power to our "wonderful and caring" elected morons in DC. Then it would not be long before the lib-o-rats would start tweaking the law so that before long we would ONLY be able to carry on Feb 31 during a full moon in the year of the Rat or some other mumbo-jumbo!

The libs are like magicians they show us one hand but we should watch the other hand. We can NEVER trust most of our elected morons. They always seem to have a hidden agenda. Most of us can see through the BS they spew.

As Will Rogers said, "We have the best politicians that money can buy!" That seems to be even more true today than when he said it!

 

[gandydancer5618]

Not a thing wrong with national reciprocity. It makes your carry permit the same as ur drivers license. Learn the rulesof your state that ur visiting just like u have to with ur car. As soon as states like MD. And NJ. Allows people from other states to carry there they will have to offer the same for their residents. The states will still have their reciprocity agreements on the books so if for some reason it did not work out. U just go back to what we have now. It is not a national license. Nothing to lose but all to gain. Almost passed last time hope it floats now.

 

[vernsimpson]

Not a thing wrong with national reciprocity. It makes your carry permit the same as ur drivers license. Learn the rulesof your state that ur visiting just like u have to with ur car. As soon as states like MD. And NJ. Allows people from other states to carry there they will have to offer the same for their residents. The states will still have their reciprocity agreements on the books so if for some reason it did not work out. U just go back to what we have now. It is not a national license. Nothing to lose but all to gain. Almost passed last time hope it floats now.

I hope and pray you are right. But I have gotten to the point that I do not trust our "wonderful and caring" elected morons. I have seen them bite the hand that keeps them in office to many times! What amazes me is how the low info voters just keep re-electing them and never wake up!

 

[wolf_fire]

Not a thing wrong with national reciprocity. It makes your carry permit the same as ur drivers license. Learn the rulesof your state that ur visiting just like u have to with ur car. As soon as states like MD. And NJ. Allows people from other states to carry there they will have to offer the same for their residents. The states will still have their reciprocity agreements on the books so if for some reason it did not work out. U just go back to what we have now. It is not a national license. Nothing to lose but all to gain. Almost passed last time hope it floats now.

Why should the Federal Government chime in on an issue to try to make a usurpation of a right more palatable???? This makes absolutely no sense.

If you really want the Federal Government to intervene, then they should tell all the states that every infringement is against the 2A and to cease and desist immediately. You don't have them reinforce the idea that a licensing system (which is an infringement) should now be nationalized and controlled by the Federal government.

 

[telpinaro]

I get this being attractive at first glance: "Yay! I get to travel wherever I want and be protected!" Which, of course, is a good thing. However, in order for our rights to be safe we need fewer regulations, not more. In my opinion, the only thing the federal government should enforce is the Constitution... states should have autonomy beyond that, provided they stay within the Constitution. That's just my feelings on the matter.