More on results of open carry demonstartions


alternety

New member
I expressed my concerns of this approach before. Only to have a new anal orifice suggested.

Public displays like this do not provide a positive public attitude improvement. They scare the hell out of them and only provide material for the antis.

I respectfully request you people examine the real world effects of what you are doing to/for the gun community vs what you think you are doing.

Group Petitions Target To Ban Guns Following Open-Carry Demonstrations ? Consumerist
 

I expressed my concerns of this approach before. Only to have a new anal orifice suggested.

Public displays like this do not provide a positive public attitude improvement. They scare the hell out of them and only provide material for the antis.

I respectfully request you people examine the real world effects of what you are doing to/for the gun community vs what you think you are doing.

Group Petitions Target To Ban Guns Following Open-Carry Demonstrations ? Consumerist

I will be DAMNED if I will allow those "Moms demand some action cause they ain't getting it at home" DUCHEBAGS determine what my phucking rights will be!
If your panties are in a bunch I say tough sh!t to you two (2)!
Go kiss ass with the moms who have no life and leave the Patriots alone!
I'm so friggin tired of weak minded Pansy's who are terrified of "offending someone".
PFFFT!!
You have no credibility here any longer! Go back to THR and the Oblammy lovers groups!
I FIGHT for my rights and if you two compromise ridden aholes phuck it up for me with your panty wetting ass kissing of moms who need action and the Blowme clowns.....
I might just start a campaign of my own.
Link Removed


Sent from behind Enemy Lines.
 
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Most of the members in most of the other big gun forums have taken that position. This forum seems to be a haven for absolutists who don't understand or care about propriety as complementing legality, or about perceptions and real life consequences.

So, where is our petition to sign that requests that Target and other retailers ignore Moms Demand Action? Why can we "out petition" MDA? I'll tell you why. Most of the members in most of the other big gun forums aren't doing a damn thing except for hiding their guns and moaning and complaining about the open carry absolutists. They and you are whining just as loud as MDA about the same group of people but doing nothing to counter MDA's actions. MDA doesn't want anyone to carry a gun anywhere - it doesn't matter if you have a permit/license and hide yours - they still don't want you carrying it:

http://framingham.patch.com/groups/...liver-120000-signatures-to-retailers-security

“The presence of firearms creates an inherent and unnecessary risk for Staples shoppers,” said Ann Krantz of Wenham and the communications lead for Moms Demand Action Massachusetts.

Krantz, told Patch, while Staples does not sell guns it does allow customers to carry them in their stores nationwide.
Massachusetts shoppers do not see customers carrying guns, except for law enforcement, due to state laws, said Krantz.

And who was to blame for the Staples petition? A concealed carrier with a permit.
Link Removed

And can people still carry in the KY state capitol?
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...wmaker-discharges-gun-capitol-office/4387559/

Nice going, CC gang! You seem to be hurting our cause more than helping.

Funny how the outcome in Oklahoma was different:
Link Removed
 
The two previous posts show the intelligence level that the antis assume we all share. In Texas we pretty much were assured to have OC during the 2015 leg. Session, now we will just have to wait and see if these strategies have been successful.
 
So I'm just going to start a list of the members of USA Carry who are Honorary Mommies.

Anyone who wants to expand this list can just copy and paste this into another post and add more as they expose themselves.

1) Mommie alternety
2) Mommie nosreme
3) Mommie jdcTX
 
Again, do you really think this will get us what we want?
As of now this is not a shooting war, it is a political / Public relations issue
Logical, mature discussion is of more help to us than 13 year old little boy bathroom humor.
What is the goal? Who do we need on our side? What is the best way to really accomplish our goals?
Not everyone is eager to protect 2A. Some want to take it away. Why help them hurt us?
 
Again, do you really think this will get us what we want?
As of now this is not a shooting war, it is a political / PR issue.
Logical, mature discussion is of more help to us than 13 year old little boy bathroom humor.
What is the goal? Who do we need on our side? What is the best way to really accomplish our goals?
Not everyone is eager to protect 2A. Some want to take it away. Why help them hurt us?

There's not a ray of daylight between your position on the OC'ers in TX, and Moms Demand Action. No one had to nominate you or otherwise draft you as an Honorary Mommie. You enlisted.

There was a time in this country when it was considered concealed carry as being indicative of deviance, sneakiness, and likely criminal intent. Now people wet their panties at the sight of free people exercising their rights right out in front of God and everybody. Since I believe with all my heart that God is the Source of those rights, I think He applauds while the Honorary Mommies wet their panties.

I am decidedly not part of the "we" to which you refer. I am a free man. You criticize free men. We are nothing alike.

Blues
 
Ok then, I tried. I still do not believe this is the way to win, and the win is what matters.
 
Ok then, I tried. I still do not believe this is the way to win, and the win is what matters.

Your opinion has been duly noted..... and dismissed with extreme prejudice.
You can hide your guns and compromise.
I will fight the good fight and maybe, just maybe, I'll let you come along to carry my stuff....
If your lucky..


Sent from behind Enemy Lines.
 
Ok then, I tried. I still do not believe this is the way to win, and the win is what matters.

Some "try" on your part. A lousy three posts, anti-gun posts to boot!
So yeah... Nice "effort" on your part to go SOOO far out of your way to convince me to compromise with a pissant group, "Moms need some action"!
You sir, are dismissed....


Sent from behind Enemy Lines.
 
alternety, nosreme, jdcTX,

What are you doing to fight against Moms Demand Action? All you are doing is nodding your head in agreement with them. We can't win the fight by just agreeing with the enemy and hope they will back down because we agree with them. Where is our petition to sign telling the corporations to ignore Moms Demand Action because the people who support Joe Citizen carrying guns for self-protection are the majority in this country?
 
Ok then, I tried. I still do not believe this is the way to win, and the win is what matters.

What do you really want to win? You are not allowed to OC handguns in TX. Is that the "win" for you, or would it be a "win" if everybody hid their rifles and begged your legislators to, "Please, please Massa, when's you gonna lets us have some o' dat open carry freedom dat otha free states allow their subjects to have?" What if your legislature does pass OC next session? Will you give any credit to Open Carry Texas for gettin' 'er done? And if it doesn't pass, will it be all their fault? What are you doing to get OC passed? They're doing something, right, wrong or indifferent.

Do you care at all that the picture that got all this started was of two guys who had been to that exact location many times before and were invited to be there that time? Or do you even know any more about the circumstances of that picture than the Mommies have told you? Link Removed straight from the horse's mouth in case you're interested in having actual knowledge from which to form comments, rather than knee-jerk bias against OC'ers.

Blues
 
Ya just don't get it. Fine, you will die in your bunker. Statistically, no one will care. But you will have a gun in your hand. Bravo.

Get off the "what will I do tomorrow to terrify the antis" attitude to how will I rationally generate a sustainable education, word of mouth, and political campaign to convince them they have their heads up their ass.

We need to deal with the antis in ways they will understand and that can potentially change their minds. This crap of showing up with lots of guns is not it!

Instead of slapping them up side the head and demanding they switch to our point of view because a bunch of us showed up in their everyday environment brandishing weapons, work the question. Take a simple undergraduate course in group psychology. Try common sense based on overall results. Significant psychological, perception,and distorted statistical issues are in play. And played very successfully be the anti groups. Showing up with guns threatens individuals, but more significantly their families. Family is a genetically ingrained concept. High on Maslow's list of basic needs (File:Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.svg - Wikimedia Commons). It supersedes many other responses.

Open carry in densely populated areas is just stupid. Just because it is your "right" to set fires does not mean you should go around setting them in public places, crowded theaters, assorted stores, restaurants, coffee shops, etc. So you "prove your point". I have never seen any substantiated information that says a family having a quiet meal in a restaurant (or activity of any sort) will suddenly accept carrying firearms because a bunch of "crazy people" (the most likely interpretation by most "civilians") showed up with guns. How can you possible consider this as an educational experience to foster the acceptance of the presence of guns in every day life. It is just ********n crazy.

I fully support 2A. And a whole bunch of the other constitutional components. I defy you to believe otherwise of me. Ignoring scurrilous (and generally incoherent) attempts to do so.

Get you head out of your ass. Supporting the Second Amendment (and a whole bunch of other founding document contents) is a public relations issue. We are right, but we are a minority in some significant areas. There are way more than enough non-supporters to attack the 2A (and other fundamental constitutional rights, defended by us actively or through inaction). Yelling at them and calling them names decreases their numbers by ZERO (probably -zero), and reduces the effectiveness of our utterances. This whole thing is a function of the hearts and minds of the voting population: not our raving and ranting. Votes, in one form or another, are the only things that count. A vote can be bought (gee, really!?) or earned by rational discourse.

We must move the values of the unenlightened (though perhaps brainwashed by the media and assorted big money efforts) citizens. If we can not generate a majority of the popular vote; we are doomed. The popular vote determines how things are going to work. Rational/irrational, informed/uninformed, lied to/the truth explained. It does not matter who is right. Only who has the most popular support. Understand it. Deal with it rationally. Change the public opinion. The public will or will not support the actions of the government (and people with vast sources of money and control of mass media) and the political agendas they are trying to impose on the population.

Stop aggravating the brain washed people we need on our side. It is not enhancing our position or protecting our constitutional rights. Only the "majority" can do that! Annoying the masses and attacking anyone not taking your approach is not going to get us where we need to be. We need an image of Boy (Girl) Scouts; not KKK and isolated groups of fanatics. Yelling won't do it. And we spend some of our efforts arguing internally about open vs concealed carry. The citizens are addressing if we should have guns; not how to carry them. We need to get our crap together and form a united front/image. A meaningful attempt to expose citizens to our constitutional concepts and hobbies. Sort of like the NRA should be doing.
 
Ok then, I tried. I still do not believe this is the way to win, and the win is what matters.

You will never get any of these guys that do the "I'm a patriot" peacocking to admit that these so called open carry demonstrations are not having the desired effect. Texas could adopt Constitutional Carry and you would not be welcome in a Chipotle or apparently a Sonic or any other store that have adopted these policies because of these so called demonstrations. If they were smart they would move their demonstrations to public locations where they can't be banned. They would still get their publicity, get their chance to educate the public and not hand an easy and very public win to the anti groups. But that would interfere with the "don't tell me what the phuck to do", "I'm a patriot" mentality and the sharing of the location where the so called patriots like to store things.
 
Ya just don't get it. Fine, you will die in your bunker. Statistically, no one will care. But you will have a gun in your hand. Bravo.

Get off the "what will I do tomorrow to terrify the antis" attitude to how will I rationally generate a sustainable education, word of mouth, and political campaign to convince them they have their heads up their ass.

We need to deal with the antis in ways they will understand and that can potentially change their minds. This crap of showing up with lots of guns is not it!

Instead of slapping them up side the head and demanding they switch to our point of view because a bunch of us showed up in their everyday environment brandishing weapons, work the question. Take a simple undergraduate course in group psychology. Try common sense based on overall results. Significant psychological, perception,and distorted statistical issues are in play. And played very successfully be the anti groups. Showing up with guns threatens individuals, but more significantly their families. Family is a genetically ingrained concept. High on Maslow's list of basic needs (File:Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.svg - Wikimedia Commons). It supersedes many other responses.

Open carry in densely populated areas is just stupid. Just because it is your "right" to set fires does not mean you should go around setting them in public places, crowded theaters, assorted stores, restaurants, coffee shops, etc. So you "prove your point". I have never seen any substantiated information that says a family having a quiet meal in a restaurant (or activity of any sort) will suddenly accept carrying firearms because a bunch of "crazy people" (the most likely interpretation by most "civilians") showed up with guns. How can you possible consider this as an educational experience to foster the acceptance of the presence of guns in every day life. It is just ********n crazy.

I fully support 2A. And a whole bunch of the other constitutional components. I defy you to believe otherwise of me. Ignoring scurrilous (and generally incoherent) attempts to do so.

Get you head out of your ass. Supporting the Second Amendment (and a whole bunch of other founding document contents) is a public relations issue. We are right, but we are a minority in some significant areas. There are way more than enough non-supporters to attack the 2A (and other fundamental constitutional rights, defended by us actively or through inaction). Yelling at them and calling them names decreases their numbers by ZERO (probably -zero), and reduces the effectiveness of our utterances. This whole thing is a function of the hearts and minds of the voting population: not our raving and ranting. Votes, in one form or another, are the only things that count. A vote can be bought (gee, really!?) or earned by rational discourse.

We must move the values of the unenlightened (though perhaps brainwashed by the media and assorted big money efforts) citizens. If we can not generate a majority of the popular vote; we are doomed. The popular vote determines how things are going to work. Rational/irrational, informed/uninformed, lied to/the truth explained. It does not matter who is right. Only who has the most popular support. Understand it. Deal with it rationally. Change the public opinion. The public will or will not support the actions of the government (and people with vast sources of money and control of mass media) and the political agendas they are trying to impose on the population.

Stop aggravating the brain washed people we need on our side. It is not enhancing our position or protecting our constitutional rights. Only the "majority" can do that! Annoying the masses and attacking anyone not taking your approach is not going to get us where we need to be. We need an image of Boy (Girl) Scouts; not KKK and isolated groups of fanatics. Yelling won't do it. And we spend some of our efforts arguing internally about open vs concealed carry. The citizens are addressing if we should have guns; not how to carry them. We need to get our crap together and form a united front/image. A meaningful attempt to expose citizens to our constitutional concepts and hobbies. Sort of like the NRA should be doing.

You need to grow a spine.
My Rights are not contingent on whether people get scared or not.
YOU need to pull YOUR head out of MDA's collective asses and realize that we live in a Constitutional Republic, NOT a Democracy.
I do not have to cower in fear that the gubment will come and "git my gunz!" Just because a group of bored housewives have too much time on their hands and a collective IQ of seventeen...
You and those just like you are the WORST kind of "anti-gun" tools on the planet!
You claim to be a gun owner and supporter of the Second Amendment.... You sir are a FRAUD!
Your attitude and fear can be smelled from here.
You should just turn in your guns (and your man cards too!!) and head on back to your jobs at Brady Campaign and HCI....
YOUR kind of "help" is not wanted and most definitely not appreciated!
Link Removed


Sent from behind Enemy Lines.
 
You will never get any of these guys that do the "I'm a patriot" peacocking to admit that these so called open carry demonstrations are not having the desired effect. Texas could adopt Constitutional Carry and you would not be welcome in a Chipotle or apparently a Sonic or any other store that have adopted these policies because of these so called demonstrations. If they were smart they would move their demonstrations to public locations where they can't be banned. They would still get their publicity, get their chance to educate the public and not hand an easy and very public win to the anti groups. But that would interfere with the "don't tell me what the phuck to do", "I'm a patriot" mentality and the sharing of the location where the so called patriots like to store things.

Link Removed


Sent from behind Enemy Lines.
 
Get off the "what will I do tomorrow to terrify the antis" attitude to how will I rationally generate a sustainable education, word of mouth, and political campaign to convince them they have their heads up their ass.

We need to deal with the antis in ways they will understand and that can potentially change their minds. This crap of showing up with lots of guns is not it!

Ohhhh.....ok. So we should win Moms Demand Action over to our side by reasoning with them. Ahhh, yeah. I'm sure that will work, you know....because they are such reasonable people. That has about as much chance of success as the restaurant rifle open carry events. And, not to mention, you will be doing more harm than good because you will be wasting your time trying to reason with an unreasonable enemy when you could be doing something useful like actually fighting them in a way that would actually produce a result.
 
Ya just don't get it. Fine, you will die in your bunker. Statistically, no one will care. But you will have a gun in your hand. Bravo.

Assuming this is directed to me in reply to the questions I asked of someone else directly preceding it, first, I don't live in (or even have) a bunker. I open carry every day. I live in the Huntsville, AL area. Not a large town, I guess "medium" about covers it. There is little crime, but it happens every day and some of it is violent. I believe my OC'ed weapon deters criminals from choosing me as a victim. That's the totality of my rationale for OC'ing. I don't take into consideration whether or not the reason criminals don't choose me as their victim is because they're scared. If they are, good, desired effect obtained. If other law-abiding citizens are scared of me, I wish that wouldn't be true because they have absolutely nothing to fear from me, but I really don't care. I'm not trying to convince anyone about what my rights are, I'm exercising the rights I already have simply by virtue of being born, just as you just did by typing a bunch of psycho-babble trying to convince me to acquiesce my rights to panty-waists like you who have acquiesced them to the propaganda campaign of Bloomberg's Mommies. Bravo indeed.

Get off the "what will I do tomorrow to terrify the antis" attitude to how will I rationally generate a sustainable education, word of mouth, and political campaign to convince them they have their heads up their ass.

Great strategy. Convince anti-gunners that they have their heads up their asses by acquiescing to all their demands that we hide our rights. Cognitive dissonance much?

We need to deal with the antis in ways they will understand and that can potentially change their minds. This crap of showing up with lots of guns is not it!

You can't decide if you're talking about the TX demonstrations by Open Carry Texas, or all OC'ers in general anywhere and everywhere. You opened this thread by saying, "I expressed my concerns of this approach before. Only to have a new anal orifice suggested." That is total BS. When you "suggested" anything before, among other glittering jewels of monumental ignorance, you said, "My opinion: open carry does more to hurt the cause of protecting and enforcing 2A than just about anything else we could do." That is what prompted any responses critical of your stated position(s), and no one said anything about any orifice of yours or anyone else's.

Otherwise, in my reply, I acknowledged that one of the guys in the picture that got all of this started made a mistake by having his hands on his weapon and holding it in the low-ready position. But other than that, no one was doing anything wrong or scary or pushy or whatever other behavior you fantasize justifies your hateful rants of free people exercising their freedoms in front of God and everybody.

But let's look at your "suggestion" again, shall we? You said: "My opinion: open carry does more to hurt the cause of protecting and enforcing 2A than just about anything else we could do."

This is truly the most brainless thing I've ever seen anyone say on the subject of OC. In many, if not most states, that either allow OC by statute, or don't disallow it, thus making it perfectly legal, OC does not require a license or permit. The full, unabridged right of The People to keep and bear arms is fully protected and enforced in those jurisdictions. Mine is one such jurisdiction. How could I conceivably be "hurting the cause of protecting and enforcing the 2A" by OC'ing in a state that protects and enforces my full right to do so without having to do so much as ask permission?

All your psycho-babble be damned. If you live in a state where your actual rights are so fragile and threatened that you are constantly on a P.R. campaign to justify the exercise of them, you have failed in your duty to assert your rights to your government. I am not failing you or any other gun owner by first, convincing my state to clarify its laws on OC so that I can engage in it without fear of government intrusion and, second, engaging in it without fear of government intrusion!

I, as a regular OC'er, am not the problem. Serfs who are too afraid to demand their rights be protected and enforced on The People's behalf, just exactly as the Constitution is written, are the problem.

It is clearly you who doesn't get it. Take your psycho-babble and stick it where the sun don't shine.

Open carry in densely populated areas is just stupid. Just because it is your "right" to set fires does not mean you should go around setting them in public places, crowded theaters, assorted stores, restaurants, coffee shops, etc.

Where in the Constitution is this "right" to set fires in public articulated? Good grief, there's more brain-dead fire-setting in this one post that I'm replying to than all the OC'ers in the great, free state of Alabama have ever set!

I fully support 2A.

B u l l s h i t. You support asking permission to conceal your utilization of the 2A, which in and of itself, asking permission, is a requirement that violates it!

Get you head out of your ass. Supporting the Second Amendment (and a whole bunch of other founding document contents) is a public relations issue. We are right, but we are a minority in some significant areas. There are way more than enough non-supporters to attack the 2A (and other fundamental constitutional rights, defended by us actively or through inaction).

How does one go about "defending" something through inaction? More brainless blather.

Yelling at them and calling them names decreases their numbers by ZERO (probably -zero), and reduces the effectiveness of our utterances. This whole thing is a function of the hearts and minds of the voting population: not our raving and ranting. Votes, in one form or another, are the only things that count. A vote can be bought (gee, really!?) or earned by rational discourse.

OK, I can accept this, which is why I voted you an Honorary Mommie. I'm starting to think you're lobbying for a full membership though.

We must move the values of the unenlightened (though perhaps brainwashed by the media and assorted big money efforts) citizens. If we can not generate a majority of the popular vote; we are doomed. The popular vote determines how things are going to work. Rational/irrational, informed/uninformed, lied to/the truth explained. It does not matter who is right. Only who has the most popular support. Understand it. Deal with it rationally. Change the public opinion. The public will or will not support the actions of the government (and people with vast sources of money and control of mass media) and the political agendas they are trying to impose on the population.

Stop aggravating the brain washed people we need on our side. It is not enhancing our position or protecting our constitutional rights. Only the "majority" can do that! Annoying the masses and attacking anyone not taking your approach is not going to get us where we need to be. We need an image of Boy (Girl) Scouts; not KKK and isolated groups of fanatics. Yelling won't do it. And we spend some of our efforts arguing internally about open vs concealed carry. The citizens are addressing if we should have guns; not how to carry them. We need to get our crap together and form a united front/image. A meaningful attempt to expose citizens to our constitutional concepts and hobbies. Sort of like the NRA should be doing.

Umm.....Simply carrying a weapon out in the open equals "attacking" those who don't agree with it? You tell me and others to "get your head out of your ass" and me exercising my rights out in the open is an "attack?" You equate open carry with KKK membership, and we're the ones on the "attack?" You talk about our rights being subject to majority vote, and we're "attacking" the 2A simply by abiding by its precepts?

OK alternety, full membership it is then. You've exceeded the requirements for honorary membership in the Mommies, and gone on a full-fledged dishonest, hyperbolic, offensive and rights-denying propaganda campaign against OC'ers. And you have the unmitigated gall to call what we do an "attack" on anything. Consider yourself exposed - you are a full-fledged shill for Bloomberg and the Mommies, and now everyone with an ounce of intellectual honesty knows it.

Blues
 

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