Lawsuit against Springfield Armory Inc?

[BluesStringer]

So can we assume that you've given up on the idea of suing them for being a week past being pleased about the recall?

Not exactly. I did receive an email from their Lawyer and I am giving the benefit of the doubt. Gives me a little hope anyway. See below:

Brian,

Your email to Dennis Reese has been forwarded to me. As we have discussed, Springfield is finishing the testing on the recall upgrade. Your pistol, which was one of the first received at Springfield, will be one of the very first to receive the upgrade and to be returned. I suggest that you hold off any action for a few more days. Springfield will be providing more specific information no later than Friday October 11[SUP]th[/SUP]. In the interim, feel free to contact me with questions or concerns.

We again apologize for your inconvenience, and thank you for your patience.

 

[CoolClownFish]

........

BluesStringer, Before you go and start bashing people why don't you use you brain and think of it this way. Go tell your boss that you will have everything he needs done in 30 days completed. Then at the 30 day mark tell him your learning how to do it and will now have it done in 10-12 weeks. Oh my, Guess what? your fired dumbass. So you go ahead and feel the way you want but I personally know that SA has screwed the pooch on how they handled this recall.

Edit: Also to tell you a little secret I have already started proceedings and have been contacted several times by their lawyers. I have been asked to hold off for a few days and I am doing so but there is a limit to me waiting for something I already paid for.
Link Removed

 

[BluesStringer]

BluesStringer, Before you go and start bashing people

Yes, of course, I "bashed" you by asking if you had given up your plan to sue SA for being a "week past being pleased with the recall." Perhaps you have already forgotten the sequence of our little "bashing" exchange here. This was it:

Yeah, ummmmm! They are already a week past me being pleased about the recall. I don't know what they are trying to say that "We Will Be Pleased" when we get it back. Guess only time will tell.

So can we assume that you've given up on the idea of suing them for being a week past being pleased about the recall?

Not exactly. I did receive an email from their Lawyer and I am giving the benefit of the doubt. Gives me a little hope anyway. See below:

Brian,

Your email to Dennis Reese has been forwarded to me. As we have discussed, Springfield is finishing the testing on the recall upgrade. Your pistol, which was one of the first received at Springfield, will be one of the very first to receive the upgrade and to be returned. I suggest that you hold off any action for a few more days. Springfield will be providing more specific information no later than Friday October 11[SUP]th[/SUP]. In the interim, feel free to contact me with questions or concerns.

We again apologize for your inconvenience, and thank you for your patience.

I was wondering if you would even understand what point I was trying to make that you missed, but with the following, I have my answer.

why don't you use you brain and think of it this way. Go tell your boss that you will have everything he needs done in 30 days completed. Then at the 30 day mark tell him your learning how to do it and will now have it done in 10-12 weeks.

But wait. The post I responded to said you were upset about only one week's delay, and considering how petty that made you sound, I asked what I asked, and your answer had absolutely nothing to do with the one week delay issue I commented on, thus the graphic about the point going over your head.

Oh my, Guess what? your fired dumbass.

Oh my, guess what? It's against the rules here to engage in name-calling. Rein it in a few notches there, wouldja?

Otherwise, using your own analogy, if I told my boss that I was going to have something done in 30 days and realized after saying that that not all of the R&D had been done and, therefore, the task I was supposed to complete was going to result in thousands of our company's customers were going to be dissatisfied, maybe even injured from using our product, I'd take my chances that telling him that the completion date had to be moved forward several weeks would result in me getting fired, because I wouldn't compromise my own personal integrity, or that of my company's for nothing more than a public relations type of expediency.

It's one of the worst analogies I've ever seen on this board. If I had an SA that was involved in the recall, I would be disappointed, but I would rather they took as long as necessary rather than give me my weapon back when it hadn't been fixed to whatever standards made the recall necessary.

And BTW, I figured that out by "using my brain."

So you go ahead and feel the way you want but I personally know that SA has screwed the pooch on how they handled this recall.

Blah blah.

Edit: Also to tell you a little secret I have already started proceedings and have been contacted several times by their lawyers. I have been asked to hold off for a few days and I am doing so but there is a limit to me waiting for something I already paid for.

It'll be interesting to see what real damages you will claim to have suffered. Courts generally don't order companies to pay for their customer's inconvenience. What actual monetary damages have you suffered? If you can't answer that question here, I'd say "good luck in court" except for one thing, you'll never make it to court if you can't even issue a complaint that describes damages.

Link Removed

Indeed.

Blues

 

[thru]

BIG difference between $200 and a million, pard. Perhaps you hadn't NOTICED? Since it's obvious that you hadn't, then I know you're not fast and accurate. Cause becoming truly skilled takes THOUSANDS of rds, and staying skilled takes quite a bit, too. At 20c a rd, 10,000 rds a year is 2k, which is a HELLUVA lot more than just getting a replacement $200 gun. If you dont like the spld, sell it and get something else. I sold the Charter .38, and just never bought anything else from Charter. But I gave up on revolvers about that same time, too. They just have too much exposure to the elements and debris, are too easily ruined by a blue or a fall to a hard surface, and they have BAD wear of critical parts. (cylinder/barrel alignment stuff like the hand, bolt, ejector star.

 

[walt629]

BIG difference between $200 and a million, pard. Perhaps you hadn't NOTICED? Since it's obvious that you hadn't, then I know you're not fast and accurate. Cause becoming truly skilled takes THOUSANDS of rds, and staying skilled takes quite a bit, too. At 20c a rd, 10,000 rds a year is 2k, which is a HELLUVA lot more than just getting a replacement $200 gun. If you dont like the spld, sell it and get something else. I sold the Charter .38, and just never bought anything else from Charter. But I gave up on revolvers about that same time, too. They just have too much exposure to the elements and debris, are too easily ruined by a blue or a fall to a hard surface, and they have BAD wear of critical parts. (cylinder/barrel alignment stuff like the hand, bolt, ejector star.

Well... we see your care giver still hasn't returned for her hiatus to put you back in your cage.

 

[CoolClownFish]

Yes, of course, I "bashed" you by asking if you had given up your plan to sue SA for being a "week past being pleased with the recall." Perhaps you have already forgotten the sequence of our little "bashing" exchange here. This was it:

I was wondering if you would even understand what point I was trying to make that you missed, but with the following, I have my answer.

why don't you use you brain and think of it this way. Go tell your boss that you will have everything he needs done in 30 days completed. Then at the 30 day mark tell him your learning how to do it and will now have it done in 10-12 weeks.

But wait. The post I responded to said you were upset about only one week's delay, and considering how petty that made you sound, I asked what I asked, and your answer had absolutely nothing to do with the one week delay issue I commented on, thus the graphic about the point going over your head.

Oh my, guess what? It's against the rules here to engage in name-calling. Rein it in a few notches there, wouldja?

Otherwise, using your own analogy, if I told my boss that I was going to have something done in 30 days and realized after saying that that not all of the R&D had been done and, therefore, the task I was supposed to complete was going to result in thousands of our company's customers were going to be dissatisfied, maybe even injured from using our product, I'd take my chances that telling him that the completion date had to be moved forward several weeks would result in me getting fired, because I wouldn't compromise my own personal integrity, or that of my company's for nothing more than PR type of expediency.

It's one of the worst analogies I've ever seen on this board. If I had an SA that was involved in the recall, I would be disappointed, but I would rather they took as long as necessary rather than give me my weapon back when it hadn't been fixed to whatever standards made the recall necessary.

And BTW, I figure that out by "using my brain."
Blah blah.

It'll be interesting to see what real damages you will claim to have suffered. Courts generally don't order companies to pay for their customer's inconvenience. What actual monetary damages have you suffered? If you can't answer that question here, I'd say "good luck in court" except for one thing, you'll never make it to court if you can't even issue a complaint that describes damages.
Indeed. Blues

BluesStringer, I apologize for how I over reacted. You are right I did misunderstand you and I'm sorry. I have had to defend this thread to no end and jumped to conclusions. To answer your question the lawsuit is not to get "Damages" it is to get a refund. But I have included in the lawsuit the legal fees and everything associated with it including my time. As for the "analogy" I was getting at how SA has not been upfront about everything and that it appears to everyone including me that they have not been completely honest about the recall and the details surrounding it. Also not mentioned before I have 2 emails from SA that state they DID NOT have a fix in the first place and they worded it that way to get the guns off the street to keep their customers safe (avoid lawsuits) and one recorded conversation stating the same, including avoiding lawsuits, between me and SA's Lawyer. So please accept my apology for how I acted towards you but I will not apologize for how I feel about SA.

 

[fudo]

You guys should stick to the subject of carrying guns and take the ad hominem attacks to PM'S. All this squabbling makes us all like like a bunch of school kids playing "My father is better than yours."

 

[BluesStringer]

To answer your question the lawsuit is not to get "Damages" it is to get a refund. But I have included in the lawsuit the legal fees and everything associated with it including my time.

So here's what's likely to happen:

1) You get your weapon back from SA with whatever fix they applied to it.

2) Instead of selling it to eliminate all ties with SA, you file a suit for a refund, only the suit will not be just for a refund, but will include "legal fees and everything associated with it including my time."

3) The judge assigned to hearing your suit reads over your complaint and realizes that the "legal fees and everything associated with it including my time" is nothing more than a money grab because if all you wanted was your money out of it, you could've sold the weapon that you voluntarily sent to them and is now fixed. The judge will say something similar to, "This frivolous lawsuit is dismissed with prejudice!"

As I said, courts are not in the business of ordering pay-outs for inconvenience. You claim that's not what you're supposedly suing for, but all you have to do to get your money out of the purchase is to sell it, so anything above and beyond that is nothing more than padding your "damages" just to come up with a higher number to sue for. If you sold your weapon and severed all ties with SA, there would be no need or justification for suing for a refund, or incurring "legal fees and everything associated with it including my time."

Also not mentioned before I have 2 emails from SA that state they DID NOT have a fix in the first place and they worded it that way to get the guns off the street to keep their customers safe

The nerve of them doing something to keep their customers safe! Appalling! Link Removed

If the emails specifically say that they want to keep their customers safe, then avoiding lawsuits is just a valid benefit of implementing such a policy. I don't think you'll get far with that kind of evidence "against" them.

So please accept my apology for how I acted towards you but I will not apologize for how I feel about SA.

I didn't ask for an apology on either count, and I couldn't care any less how you "feel" about SA. I do, however, care about the justice system being used as a weapon for literally nothing more than being inconvenienced for a few weeks. Your idea and my idea of what constitutes a "few" weeks may differ, but even if it's a "bunch" of weeks, or "too many" weeks, whatever, it boils down to nothing more than inconvenience. That's not what our court system is set up to arbitrate. It's set up to arbitrate damages, and based solely on your own descriptions of what has taken place, you're not going to be able to show any. You are 100% free however, to *feel* any way you want to about SA.

Blues

 

[CoolClownFish]

So here's what's likely to happen:

1) You get your weapon back from SA with whatever fix they applied to it. That's presuming that it is back before going to court.

2) Instead of selling it to eliminate all ties with SA, you file a suit for a refund, only the suit will not be just for a refund, but will include "legal fees and everything associated with it including my time." Yes, This is what I said.

3) The judge assigned to hearing your suit reads over your complaint and realizes that the "legal fees and everything associated with it including my time" is nothing more than a money grab because if all you wanted was your money out of it, you could've sold the weapon that you voluntarily sent to them and is now fixed. The judge will say something similar to, "This frivolous lawsuit is dismissed with prejudice!" You watch too much Judge Judy if you think that "My" time and "My" money are not worth anything. Therefore throwing your "This frivolous lawsuit is dismissed with prejudice!" comment right in the trash where you pulled it from.

As I said, courts are not in the business of ordering pay-outs for inconvenience. You claim that's not what you're supposedly suing for, but all you have to do to get your money out of the purchase is to sell it, so anything above and beyond that is nothing more than padding your "damages" just to come up with a higher number to sue for. If you sold your weapon and severed all ties with SA, there would be no need or justification for suing for a refund, or incurring "legal fees and everything associated with it including my time." This is assuming I would be able to get out what I have spent on the gun and its accessories being that it is now used and many people do not trust the gun after the deceptive ways of SA.


The nerve of them doing something to keep their customers safe! Appalling! Link Removed

If the emails specifically say that they want to keep their customers safe, then avoiding lawsuits is just a valid benefit of implementing such a policy. I don't think you'll get far with that kind of evidence "against" them.
I never said that fixing the problem to avoid injury was a bad thing for them to do, but What I did say is that SA has not handled this recall very well from the start and has been deceptive to everyone. I was personally told 1. that the fix was being started when they receive the gun and 2. that they were going to have them back around the 30 day mark. With the emails I have showing this was a deceptive move to cover their ass there won't be a problem showing a court how SA was deceptive to their customers and that's not to mention the fact that I will not be getting back the same thing I bought with parts and function being changed.

I didn't ask for an apology on either count, and I couldn't care any less how you "feel" about SA. I do, however, care about the justice system being used as a weapon for literally nothing more than being inconvenienced for a few weeks. Your idea and my idea of what constitutes a "few" weeks may differ, but even if it's a "bunch" of weeks, or "too many" weeks, whatever, it boils down to nothing more than inconvenience. That's not what our court system is set up to arbitrate. It's set up to arbitrate damages, and based solely on your own descriptions of what has taken place, you're not going to be able to show any. You are 100% free however, to *feel* any way you want to about SA.

Blues

First off I was trying to keep the peace here and enjoy the forums, However you seem to think this is a debate, Very well, The great thing about being an American is that you and I both have the right to have our own opinions and can be free to do whatever we like. Also your comment "you could've sold the weapon that you voluntarily sent to them" Implies that I would be able to get what I paid out for it back by selling it used and not new. And to address the "voluntarily" part yes I sent it to them but I have since made an formal request for return of my personal property. Therefore putting them in possession of my property without my permission. You can keep coming at me with your well worded comments and so forth but I will always defend what I think is right. You may be willing to bend over and take whatever excuses SA wants to give you, Go ahead but I don't personally like how deceptive SA has been. The purpose of small claims court is to allow people to bring relatively minor claims before a judge without incurring considerable expense in the form of attorney's fees and court costs. By its very nature, small claims court is a simple, inexpensive and reasonably fast alternative to a full-blown lawsuit. So get off your "All Hail SA" standpoint and realize I don't give a rats ass if you "Think" a lawsuit will get me anywhere, I know better. And get your facts straight, This kind of situation is exactly what our legal system is for, To settle disputes that neither party can come to a satisfactory conclusion to. Also, nobody forced you to read or respond to this thread, being a jackass is your decision.

 

[BluesStringer]

Also, nobody forced you to read or respond to this thread, being a jackass is your decision.

By simply commenting in this thread, this "jackass" has now somehow inspired you to inappropriate levels of anger and breaking of the forum rules twice. Maybe you shouldn't own a gun at all as quick to anger as you are.

Blues

 

[ezkl2230]

Here is today's update - and it is GOOD NEWS!!! Including 7 round mag w/extension sleeve as well.

[TABLE="width: 800"]
[TR]
[TD]

XD-S™ Voluntary Safety Recall Update Status Updated 10/11/2013

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]This information applies only to XD-S™ pistols in the serial number ranges below

Springfield 3.3 XD-S™ 9mm pistols - serial numbers between XS900000 and XS938700
Springfield 3.3 XD-S™ .45ACP pistols - serial numbers between XS500000 and XS686300

We are pleased to announce that our testing was successful and is complete.

We will receive our first shipment of upgrade parts early next week and will begin shipping upgraded XD-S™ pistols back to our customers the week of October 21 on a first-received/first-upgraded basis.

To ensure our customers are continuously informed of our progress, we will provide website updates every Friday until all of the pistols are back in the hands of their owners.

We are confident that you will be extremely pleased with your upgraded XD-S™ pistol and we wish to express our deep gratitude to all our valued customers who have demonstrated such patience, support and loyalty to Springfield Armory®. As a small token of our thanks, we will be enclosing an XD-S™ extended magazine with X-tension sleeve with each pistol we return.

Please click the FAQ link in the red bar on top of this page to view our updated FAQ for more information about the final upgrade solution, and thank you again for your support.


This Springfield XD-S™ Recall Update will be updated every Friday through the recall process. Please check back for updates.

As a reminder, do not use your 3.3 XD-S™ until the upgrade has been performed.[/TH]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[CoolClownFish]

Finally some GOOD news from SA. I could care less about the Magazine, I just want my gun back before I leave for vacation.

 

[wolf_fire]

BluesStringer, Before you go and start bashing people why don't you use you brain and think of it this way. Go tell your boss that you will have everything he needs done in 30 days completed. Then at the 30 day mark tell him your learning how to do it and will now have it done in 10-12 weeks. Oh my, Guess what? your fired dumbass. So you go ahead and feel the way you want but I personally know that SA has screwed the pooch on how they handled this recall.

Edit: Also to tell you a little secret I have already started proceedings and have been contacted several times by their lawyers. I have been asked to hold off for a few days and I am doing so but there is a limit to me waiting for something I already paid for.
Link Removed

But he won't go on a forum and tell everyone he will sue his boss :wink:

 

[wolf_fire]

You guys should stick to the subject of carrying guns and take the ad hominem attacks to PM'S. All this squabbling makes us all like like a bunch of school kids playing "My father is better than yours."

But mine is. :blink:

 

[telpinaro]

But mine is. :blink:

Nu-huh, mine is!

 

[r1derbike]

Here is today's update - and it is GOOD NEWS!!! Including 7 round mag w/extension sleeve as well.

Outstanding! I have been on again/off again about buying the 7-rounder for a backup mag., and now we get one for free! That will go nicely with the 6 5-rounders I already have! Nice work!

 

[bowserb]

The OP, Coolclownfish, has started at least three threads on this recall. Now I see he has apparently bought a Taurus and started a thread complaining about the trigger. Congrats, Coolclownfish. You've finally figured out that this recall was a great excuse to buy another gun. It's a little surprising, though, that you opted to supplement your Volkswagen...with a Yugo! I hope that works out for you, although you're liable to learn even more about factory warranties. I am confident in my XDM-45 4.5", my EDC, but if I weren't, my next purchase would be a Glock. Ugly, chunky, but light weight, and they work every time. That is why the G19 is the single most popular concealed carry gun among firearms training professionals.


Sent using Tapatalk...so please excuse the typos!

 

[CoolClownFish]

The OP, Coolclownfish, has started at least three threads on this recall. Now I see he has apparently bought a Taurus and started a thread complaining about the trigger. Congrats, Coolclownfish. You've finally figured out that this recall was a great excuse to buy another gun. It's a little surprising, though, that you opted to supplement your Volkswagen...with a Yugo! I hope that works out for you, although you're liable to learn even more about factory warranties. I am confident in my XDM-45 4.5", my EDC, but if I weren't, my next purchase would be a Glock. Ugly, chunky, but light weight, and they work every time. That is why the G19 is the single most popular concealed carry gun among firearms training professionals.


Sent using Tapatalk...so please excuse the typos!

lol, Are you trying to diss me or sell me on buying a glock?

 

[jcreek]

Simply put I want a refund or replacement under their "Lifetime" warranty. But hey if you can't read or understand that this is not a bashing post that's your problem.

First, you need to understand the difference between a warranty and a VOLUNTARY recall. 90% of warranties (including SA's) only apply to products in which a problem is actually discovered, usually by the consumer. A voluntary recall is them saying there MIGHT be a problem with your gun and offering to inspect and repair it if there is.

Second, if you actually read Springfield's warranty policy, you'll see that their offer, just like everybody else's, is to provide a new, repaired, or reconditioned product, AT THEIR DISCRETION. Not only is a refund not mentioned, but whether they give you a new gun (unlikely) or repair yours, is completely up to them.

The recall was voluntary, not only on their part but yours. I understand that it can be frustrating being without a carry weapon, but don't fool yourself into thinking you're the first person to be in the situation. I know of several people, including on this forum, who have had to pawn their only carry weapon to keep their families at one point or another. Springfield is reputable company and will make right by their customers in the end. Just hang in there.

https://www.springfieldwarranty.com/StartWarranty.asp

If, during YOUR ownership of the Product, one or more parts of the Product fail due to defects in
materials or workmanship, Springfield will provide, free of charge, a new, repaired or
reconditioned (decided at our discretion) Product. That new, repaired or reconditioned Product
will be warranted for the remainder of YOUR ownership of the Product under these terms
and conditions.

 

[ezkl2230]

They began shipping firearms back today!!!

Springfield 3.3 XD-S™ 9mm pistols - serial numbers between XS900000 and XS938700
Springfield 3.3 XD-S™ .45ACP pistols - serial numbers between XS500000 and XS686300

We are pleased to announce that the process of upgrading XD-S™ pistols has begun, and we will start shipping TODAY on a first-received/first-upgraded basis.

In our last update, we reported that upgraded pistols would start shipping sometime next week. But our team has been working around the clock and we are thrilled to start shipping today.

We have greatly increased our staff to get upgraded pistols back to customers quickly, and we are committed to achieving the fastest turnaround times possible. For now, we are unable to provide specific return shipping date ranges, but we do expect to share more information next Friday after we've had a full week to gauge how efficiently we will be able to complete this process.

When upgrades are finished on individual firearms, customers will receive a shipping notice and tracking information at the e-mail address they provided for the XD-S™ recall. And as a token of our appreciation for our customers' patience and support, we will also be enclosing an XD-S™ extended magazine with X-tension sleeve with each pistol we return.

As we reported last week, our engineers have redesigned the grip safety and created more positive engagement between the sear and striker on the upgraded XD-S™ pistols. Our solution delivers the advantages of a smoother and more consistent trigger feel with just a slightly increased trigger pull. We chose this option based on the two most important attributes to self-defense firearm owners - safety and reliability - and we are confident that our customers will be extremely pleased with their upgraded pistols.

We want to again express our deep gratitude to all of our valued customers for their loyalty to Springfield Armory®.​

They began shipping firearms back today!!!