It's time for a discussion

[Bikenut]

As well statistical data shows that regulation that prevents violent criminals from access to guns reduces gun violence (Brady Law). Every time I have purchased a firearm I have filled out the paper work could probably fill it our blind folded at this point. I know it takes days to do the paper work with all that countless information information that we have to provide and don't get me started on those algebraic equations. The paperwork block that exist now should apply to all aspects of purchasing firearms.

And your pro gun control agenda has come to light.

 

[alextpearson]

Gun Free Zones

The best way to stop all this crap is to get rid of ALL "Gun Free Zones"!!! But the libs and anti's will double down on "Gun Free Zones" and want to pass more gun control laws because, "They Care"! And we don't!

The shootings at the military base were not gun free zone. Granted that shooting that occur in gun free zone have a exacerbated gun toll. "Removing Gun Free Zones" does not solve the long term problem.

 

[bofh]

Let’s look at something really quick (try your best to come into this without prejudice or prior agenda). A convicted felon (Rapist, Murder Child, Molester and all the other categories) have the ability from the privacy of their home or even a public computer to access a gun exchange network, and can purchase the firearm without and restriction background checks. We cannot ignore the ease of access to firearms by convicted felons using these websites. Recall the incident with Seung Hui Cho killed 32 individuals with firearms purchased online.

Once again, get your facts straight. This is verbatim from Seung-Hui Cho - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On February 9, 2007, Cho purchased his first handgun, a .22 caliber Walther P22 semi-automatic pistol, from TGSCOM Inc., a federally licensed firearms dealer based in Green Bay, Wisconsin and the operator of the website through which Cho ordered the gun.[75][76][77][78] TGSCOM Inc. shipped the Walther P22 to JND Pawnbrokers in Blacksburg, Virginia, where Cho completed the legally required background check for the purchase transaction and took possession of the handgun.[79] Cho bought a second handgun, a 9mm Glock 19 semiautomatic pistol, on March 13, 2007 from Roanoke Firearms, a licensed gun dealer located in Roanoke, Virginia.[75][80]

Cho was able to pass both background checks and successfully complete both handgun purchases after he presented to the gun dealers his U.S. permanent residency card, his Virginia driver's permit to prove legal age and length of Virginia residence and a checkbook showing his Virginia address, in addition to waiting the required 30-day period between each gun purchase. He was successful at completing both handgun purchases because he did not disclose on the background questionnaire that a Virginia court had ordered him to undergo outpatient treatment at a mental health facility.[81][82][83]

He purchased both guns with the required background check and the 30-day waiting period. The purchase was illegal, because he lied on the form about his outpatient treatment at a mental health facility.

Through ballistics examination, law enforcement investigators determined that Cho used the Glock 19 pistol during the attacks at the West Ambler Johnston dormitory and at Norris Hall on the Virginia Tech campus.[98][99][100]

He used the gun that was NOT purchased online to commit the crime.

Cho committed suicide after law enforcement officers breached the doors of the building where the majority of the shooting had taken place.

Again, the shooter shot himself the instant he was confronted by armed resistance. Removing or delaying that armed resistance just means more carnage. Thanks to gun control efforts, Virginia Tech was a gun-fee zone, i.e., only criminals and LEOs carry guns. As in the Ft. Hood shooting, the shooting took place in a target-rich environment for any determined killer as the population has been disarmed and security is based on the "honor principle" and waiting for the police to arrive.

 

[FiremanPaul]

You are sadly mistaken if you believe military bases aren't gun free zones. The only people with loaded weapons on base are military police or contracted police. Once again, this base shooting, like other mass shootings, stopped when the attacker was confronted by someone who was armed and the attacker kills themselves.

 

[alextpearson]

And what paperwork does the criminal fill out when he buys a gun on the street corner? Does that paperwork that the criminal DOESN'T fill out stop him from having access to a gun?

Yes it shows with the Brady Law that it closes the loop-hole that exist for the easy purchase of firearms. Is there a problems with taken guns away from violent offenders? Should we allow child molesters to live next to schools allow physically abuse parents unabated access to children.

Explain to me why it is wrong to close loop-holes that exist that allow for the easy of purchase of untraceable firearms.

 

[CapGun]

The shootings at the military base were not gun free zone. Granted that shooting that occur in gun free zone have a exacerbated gun toll. "Removing Gun Free Zones" does not solve the long term problem.

You are an amazing piece of work. So pompous, so typical!
"Removing gun free zones does not solve the problem."
Now tell your solution. Don't make yourself look stupid and insult us by using the words GUN and REGULATIONS in the same sentence. :wacko:

 

[FiremanPaul]

This thread reminds me of the article showing the government inserting posts into forums and blogs to misdirect and control. I will try to find it.

 

[BluesStringer]

The shootings at the military base were not gun free zone. Granted that shooting that occur in gun free zone have a exacerbated gun toll. "Removing Gun Free Zones" does not solve the long term problem.

Removing a rabid gun-grabber like you would solve our immediate problem. This is a pro-gun site. Literally all viewpoints that can be even remotely connected to a pro-gun, pro-2nd Amendment position is welcomed here by the overwhelming majority of the regular participants. The Brady Bunch does not fit within that description whatsoever. They are gun rights advocates' enemies, and so are you.

 

[bofh]

The shootings at the military base were not gun free zone. Granted that shooting that occur in gun free zone have a exacerbated gun toll. "Removing Gun Free Zones" does not solve the long term problem.

The definition of a "gun free zone" is that carrying firearms is restricted to authorized persons only, and not that there are no firearms. The MP response in the Ft Hood shooting was about 10-15 minutes, giving the shooter ample of time to kill those that were not allowed to carry a firearm on base. The death toll in gun free zones is higher as the response to an active shooter is performed by authorized persons only, and not by the actual victims.

 

[Bikenut]

Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
And what paperwork does the criminal fill out when he buys a gun on the street corner? Does that paperwork that the criminal DOESN'T fill out stop him from having access to a gun?

Yes it shows with the Brady Law that it closes the loop-hole that exist for the easy purchase of firearms. Is there a problems with taken guns away from violent offenders? Should we allow child molesters to live next to schools allow physically abuse parents unabated access to children.

Explain to me why it is wrong to close loop-holes that exist that allow for the easy of purchase of untraceable firearms.

Explain to me how the Brady Law that you are championing so much affects criminals when they buy a gun off the street? You are aware that the only paper involved when a criminal buys a gun from another criminal is paper money.... there are no forms filled out!

Explain to me how the Brady Law will force criminals to fill out forms? You do realize that a "criminal", by the very definition, is someone who does not obey the law... including the Brady Law?

You are basing your arguments on attempts to emotionally sensationalize a problem that isn't there. There is no "loop hole"... there is only an aspect of firearms that YOU think needs to be controlled.

One more time... instead of worry about whether felons or nuts have access to guns why not be adult about it and understand the problem isn't if felons or nuts can get guns legally since they get them illegally anyway.. the problem is felons and nuts have access to innocents they can make their victims.

Lock up the violent in prisons or hospitals and never let them out. Problem solved.

 

[alextpearson]

Once again, get your facts straight. This is verbatim from Seung-Hui Cho - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



He purchased both guns with the required background check and the 30-day waiting period. The purchase was illegal, because he lied on the form about his outpatient treatment at a mental health facility.



He used the gun that was NOT purchased online to commit the crime.

• In 2007, a seriously mentally ill young man named
Seung-Hui Cho killed 32 Virginia Tech students and
faculty and wounded 25 others – the deadliest mass
shooting by a single gunman in U.S. history.26 He
bought the Walther P22 semi-automatic he used
from TGSCOM, a major online firearms retailer.27 Cho
passed state and federal background checks because
records of his severe mental illness – which should
have barred him from gun ownership under federal
law – had never been sent to the NICS database. The
owner of TGSCOM, Eric Thompson, later said, “From
reading the reports, I do believe this was probably
somebody who should not have been able to pass a
background check.”28 Cho also bought at least five
ammunition clips on the auction site eBay.29 Bullets and
ammunition magazines are not subject to background
checks under federal law.

Not taken from Wikipedia but a government study. Wikipedia can be edited by anyone at any time.

Here is the resource thought you might enjoy reading the article.
Link Removed

 

[CapGun]

Translation...

The purpose of starting this discussion is to push a gun control agenda and the only way that can be accomplished is to control the conversation in order to present pro gun control talking points. Any and all attempts to cause the conversation to stray from the talking points presented will be met with ridicule in order to steer the conversation in the direction that best pushes the agenda of .................. gun control. Good luck with that.

Right on! Are you channeling Saul Alinsky?

 

[FiremanPaul]

Here it is. https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
Just sayin.

 

[jameshd]

1000 people a day are killed or injured in auto crashes everyday. nobody has suggested banning private ownership and public usage of motor vehicles

I once did an hour-long presentation about a device that kills and maims, destroys families, is used in committing crimes, and stuff such as that. At the end, I said, "It is time to ban the automobile," and sat down. The two folks who had been dancing around in their seats wanting to tell me that guns weren't dangerous couldn't believe what they heard me say. But I had facts and figures to back up my statements. Don't think I changed any body's mind, though.

 

[BluesStringer]

Oops - double post, no delete option for some reason.

Just let me reiterate since I can't delete this, alextpearson is the enemy of gun rights advocates. Not the "voice of opposition" or just an alternate view of the meaning of the 2nd Amendment, but a real life, honest to goodness enemy, with all the implications that go along with the real meaning of that word.

 

[dstryr]

I believe the discussion was fairly well settled more than a couple hundred years ago by the framers of our constitution and reaffirmed by Heller and McDonald cases that gun ownership is an individual right, and explained by James Madison in Federalist #46.

 

[FiremanPaul]

Come on a gun site and support gun control..... get all hurt when folks react.
Come on a gun site saying going to be a cop soon and ask for the "other sides" perspective.... Get defensive and disappear when that perspective is given loud and clear.

I sense a pattern

 

[alextpearson]

Explain to me how the Brady Law that you are championing so much affects criminals when they buy a gun off the street? You are aware that the only paper involved when a criminal buys a gun from another criminal is paper money.... there are no forms filled out!

Explain to me how the Brady Law will force criminals to fill out forms? You do realize that a "criminal", by the very definition, is someone who does not obey the law... including the Brady Law?

You are basing your arguments on attempts to emotionally sensationalize a problem that isn't there. There is no "loop hole"... there is only an aspect of firearms that YOU think needs to be controlled.

One more time... instead of worry about whether felons or nuts have access to guns why not be adult about it and understand the problem isn't if felons or nuts can get guns legally since they get them illegally anyway.. the problem is felons and nuts have access to innocents they can make their victims.

Lock up the violent in prisons or hospitals and never let them out. Problem solved.

The Brady Law makes the access to a "easy" purchase difficult a felon can no longer just walk into the gun store and get what they want. Look at Armslist a convicted felon can purchase what every they want when ever they want.

Imaging the cost of locking up every individual with a mental illness or every felon. The cost would be in the Billions. Look at the numbeous indiviauls with mental health illnesses its staggering.
NIMH · The Numbers Count: Mental Disorders in America

 

[bofh]

• In 2007, a seriously mentally ill young man named
Seung-Hui Cho killed 32 Virginia Tech students and
faculty and wounded 25 others – the deadliest mass
shooting by a single gunman in U.S. history.26 He
bought the Walther P22 semi-automatic he used
from TGSCOM, a major online firearms retailer.27 Cho
passed state and federal background checks because
records of his severe mental illness – which should
have barred him from gun ownership under federal
law – had never been sent to the NICS database. The
owner of TGSCOM, Eric Thompson, later said, “From
reading the reports, I do believe this was probably
somebody who should not have been able to pass a
background check.”28 Cho also bought at least five
ammunition clips on the auction site eBay.29 Bullets and
ammunition magazines are not subject to background
checks under federal law.

Not taken from Wikipedia but a government study. Wikipedia can be edited by anyone at any time.

Here is the resource thought you might enjoy reading the article.
Link Removed

Thank you for making my point. Existing gun laws were not enforced, so you want to create new ones?

 

[alextpearson]

Come on a gun site and support gun control..... get all hurt when folks react.
Come on a gun site saying going to be a cop soon and ask for the "other sides" perspective.... Get defensive and disappear when that perspective is given loud and clear.

I sense a pattern

No feeling have been hurt here. just trying to gain perspectives and carry on a conversation. I'm still here.