is .380 enough gun?

kerb said:
My observations:

First, there's nothing quite so pathetic as someone who makes threats on the internet. Mistaken for a punching bag, indeed.

Second, my experience with various .380s has shown me that they require a lot more focus on trigger control than my 1911s to get shots on target. Even my P238. And they are a lot snappier due to size and weight.
I question whether in the heat of battle I can attain that degree of trigger control, given the physical reactions that are widely documented to occur at that level of stress.

Third, expecting to reliably deliver a shot to the eye (or ocular cavity) is unrealistic. Refer to point the second.
My plan is to aim center mass. Body armor or no.

Fourth - Yeah, a .22 can kill someone given the correct shot placement. So can a bow and arrow. Or a rock.
I don't carry either one of those for self defense either.

I know my limits; therefore I don't normally carry a .380.
All that said, I sure wouldn't turn my nose up at one if that's all I had at hand!
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When did I threaten him? Never. We all know that idiots like him don't deserve the badge and if the person he offended didnt know he was a cop, yes, he probably would be used as a punching bag.

As for your thoughts on .380, valid. You made an actual argument based on your personal abilities and preference. But in the end, you validated my point, any caliber is sufficient provided you make hits to vital areas. I don't know why SGB, schadenfreude and Stan45 are arguing, probably because I didn't sing praises and bow down to the almighty .45acp cartridge. It's like arguing the about the difference between a maple leaf and the leaf on a palm tree. They do the same thing, one is bigger. Whoopdeeedoo
 
kerb said:
My observations:

First, there's nothing quite so pathetic as someone who makes threats on the internet. Mistaken for a punching bag, indeed.
Click to expand...

It's not the first time it's happened on the 'net and it probably won't be the last. Quite frankly, I can forgive the transgression since it is of no consequence to me.

.
Tricolordad's portrayal of himself through his own words/behavior speaks volumes as to his character and defines him in a way that no one else's actions ever could. All anyone needs to do is look at his persistent name-calling (as recent as the post #266 above) and judge for themselves his true nature. I'll leave it at that.

.

kerb said:
Second, my experience with various .380s has shown me that they require a lot more focus on trigger control than my 1911s to get shots on target. Even my P238. And they are a lot snappier due to size and weight.
I question whether in the heat of battle I can attain that degree of trigger control, given the physical reactions that are widely documented to occur at that level of stress.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I have the same problem with smaller guns- seems my hand needs a larger frame for the extra purchase. Combine that with the reduction in fine motor control that comes with the adrenaline dump and I have no choice but to move up in grip size.

kerb said:
Third, expecting to reliably deliver a shot to the eye (or ocular cavity) is unrealistic. Refer to point the second.
My plan is to aim center mass. Body armor or no.
Click to expand...

That's as good a plan as any other. It's highly unlikely that we are going to face an armored attacker and if we do, the best course of action is a "tactical retreat" if it is at all possible. That might make me a "chicken", but I am a "chicken" who gets to see his loved ones again.

kerb said:
Fourth - Yeah, a .22 can kill someone given the correct shot placement. So can a bow and arrow. Or a rock.
I don't carry either one of those for self defense either.
Click to expand...

That and everyone'll make fun of you carrying that rock around in a holster. :biggrin:

kerb said:
I know my limits; therefore I don't normally carry a .380.
All that said, I sure wouldn't turn my nose up at one if that's all I had at hand!
Click to expand...

Neither would I were it all that I had....beats harsh language and dirty looks.
 
tricolordad said:
When did I threaten him? Never. We all know that idiots like him don't deserve the badge and if the person he offended didnt know he was a cop, yes, he probably would be used as a punching bag.
Click to expand...

That's internet tough guy talk man. Don't stoop to that. Just makes you appear foolish, and I think you really probably aren't.

Ima quit preaching at you now.

As for your thoughts on .380, valid. You made an actual argument based on your personal abilities and preference. But in the end, you validated my point, any caliber is sufficient provided you make hits to vital areas. I don't know why SGB, schadenfreude and Stan45 are arguing, probably because I didn't sing praises and bow down to the almighty .45acp cartridge. It's like arguing the about the difference between a maple leaf and the leaf on a palm tree. They do the same thing, one is bigger. Whoopdeeedoo
Click to expand...


Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
 
You can find a grip extension and backstraps at just about every website that sells firearms...no excuse there. Instead of paying $2000 and upwards for that Kimber, why not pay a little less for a gun with extended magazines, rails, adjustable backstraps that wont cost as much as your bi-annual car insurance and made of actual metal, not that MIM garbage. Don't say you don't have a dept issued Kimber, LEOs everywhere have them, even in Boyceville WI pop 1000, 2 cops. Seen it with my own eyes, budget issues my ass...Sure, I can carry my Trojan around and have 7+1 and the big gun, or I can carry my PK380 with a grip extension and 12+1 with a P22 at backup with another 10+1 ready to rock. Validate that purchase. Your gun is your ***** right? Lmao
 
Bullet Penetration Modeling the Dynamics and Incapacitation Resulting from Wound Trauma by Buncan MacPherson
Was written after the FBI testing. If you are up to date on the Miami shooting that kicked off the search for better bullets. One round was in line with the heart of a bad guy and that round stopped short. This bad guy went om to shoot several people.
Rather than how I feel about a caliber does not matter, we need to look at the data, the shootings, the papers from International Wound Ballistics Assoication (IWBA) and the old test by LaGarde, the IWBA promoted the republishing of that work. They said it was sound and better than most modern work.
That should give is all something to think about. Better to do it now than when the chips are down and lead is flying your way.
 
I've read numerous articles on this topic, concensus seems to be that the .380 is borderline for personal protection, and would carry for backup, but not primary
weapon.
However, a .380 is better than a rock.
I carry a 1911 .45, but will be buying the wife an M&P 9c soon. This month's Guns and Ammo has a compact 9 writeup.
 
so who aims at the arm? What makes you think that an upper arm bone, shattered by a bullet, lets the guy keep attacking? I guarantee that any power that the bullet still has when it strikes the far side skin is NOT usable to stop the guy. :-) I've shot hundreds of animals with the various loads, and most jhps don't expand at ALL in flesh and blood, guys. It's a joke.
 
titon said:
so who aims at the arm?
Click to expand...

No one that I know of. However, if that arm is in the way and in front of the COM/POA when the shooting starts, it will likely be hit. In that case, the bullet better have enough steam to penetrate to the vitals after that.

.


titon said:
What makes you think that an upper arm bone, shattered by a bullet, lets the guy keep attacking?
Click to expand...

His other arm. (unless he's an amputee)

.

titon said:
I guarantee that any power that the bullet still has when it strikes the far side skin is NOT usable to stop the guy. :-) I've shot hundreds of animals with the various loads, and most jhps don't expand at ALL in flesh and blood, guys. It's a joke.
Click to expand...

There are no guarantees.
 
If we have bullets that can penetrate 15 inches, this deeper penetration produces blood vessels that are likely to be ruptured. Here is a key to why we want to use a bullet that will penetrate deep. If we have a bullet that will penetrate 15 inches the final three inches of penetration occurs at velocities less than 250 fps for most bullets. Tissue trauma caused by bullet passage at these low velocities is noticeably less severe.
The problem with the .380 is lack of penetration and lack of speed.
 
In my post, it was not about .380. It was a quote from Bullet Penetration by Duncan MacPherson.
The problem with a .380 is the light bullet if it hits bone. We need a heaver bullet to push through and keep on going.
 
If you load you .380 with Buffalo Bore flat nose rounds you will do one heck of a lot of damage to bone and tissue.
1125 FPS and 281 FT lbs.

:unsure:
 
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