Yet in about 90% of cases that people have told when a police officer has disarmed them "for officer safety", they HAVE run the serial numbers. Their justification (which I think is crap) is that the serial number comes into plain sight once the gun is removed from the holster. Unfortunately, I cannot be a test case for this, because I carry a Taurus PT-145 which has the serial number plastered on the back strap, plainly visible even when the holster.
Inform the officer or not when concealed carry?
- Thread starter Pele
- Start date
Yet in about 90% of cases that people have told when a police officer has disarmed them "for officer safety", they HAVE run the serial numbers. Their justification (which I think is crap) is that the serial number comes into plain sight once the gun is removed from the holster. Unfortunately, I cannot be a test case for this, because I carry a Taurus PT-145 which has the serial number plastered on the back strap, plainly visible even when the holster.
ranger351w
New member
The first thing any legal adviser will tell you is to not even talk to a cop. 5th Amendment is there for you! Say nothing other than to answer a direct question unless it would incriminate you. Yes, No that's it!
You go ahead and spill your guts to them. I will use yes and no!!
I have nothing to hide but am smart enough to keep my mouth shut. Take the ticket and leave. I need not thank anyone for a ticket and will not! That is shear sheeple mentality and what the schools ingrain in the younger sheeple.
No malice intended just an opinion
you all have a great day sirs and mams:biggrin:
You go ahead and spill your guts to them. I will use yes and no!!
I have nothing to hide but am smart enough to keep my mouth shut. Take the ticket and leave. I need not thank anyone for a ticket and will not! That is shear sheeple mentality and what the schools ingrain in the younger sheeple.
No malice intended just an opinion
you all have a great day sirs and mams:biggrin:
Rich7553
New member
Test case? Why would you need to be a test case? You don't need to be arrested. The serial number of your firearm only needs to be checked by the officer and you need to be able to prove that. You can then file a formal complaint and sue under the deprivation of rights under color of law.
Treo
Bullet Proof
But they do it all the time
Treo
Bullet Proof
The thing that really amazes me about this topic is the number of people posting in "I don't know what my state requires." I've had one guy send me a PM stating that CRS 18-12-204 specifically requires that I inform (It doesn't) When I pointed that out to him he countered 'Well, my JAG lawyer said it was a good idea"
Am I the only one who made a point of reading the statute that covers concealed carry for my state?
Am I the only one who made a point of reading the statute that covers concealed carry for my state?
mrjam2jab
New member
Also an issue in the "mandatory classes" some states have...where the instructor says "this is what you do..." without mentioning whether he is stating law or opinion. Most of the students in these classes are newbies...and will take what the instructor says as gospel/law.
I am very familiar with PA's gun laws...and if i don't know an answer I know right where to go to find it...:biggrin:
Except that when carrying my gun, I would not be deprived of my rights, because my serial number is in plain sight when in my holster on my body. Just like your license plates on your car are. Are you deprived of your rights if a cop runs your plates just for the heck of it? The court case for running the serial number of the gun would have to center around the officer taking action (removing the gun from the holster) in order to obtain the serial number to run, just like in Arizona v. Hicks - the officers had to move the stereo to get to the serial number.
Unfortunately for me, they don't have to move anything to see the serial number. I would use this as an excuse to get a new gun, but I can't afford one right now! :laugh:
Treo
Bullet Proof
But, (IMO) regardless of what that instructor says it is still incumbent upon you (in the generic sense) to study and know your state's laws on concealed carry and use of deadly force.
Having said that, I assume from your post that you agree. My response was more for the lurkers
B2Tall
Stirrer of the Pot
Whoa! I actually agree with Antietam on something! :laugh:
This is precisely why if stopped I would be polite and do my best to put the officer at ease. That includes showing my CCW. I've said many times that things like "probable cause" and "officer safety", etc. are huge gray areas that allow a LEO quite a bit of leeway to use his or her discretion. The officer can ruin your day if they want to so I would try to start out on the right foot. In an instance of questionable behavior by a LEO, in the long run you may win the war but on that day you are definitely going to lose the battle. The officer has all the advantages in this situation. For me, winning the war means driving away after a few minutes with, at worst, a traffic citation. My strategies and tactics in that war are a matter of personal choice. They've worked well for me in the past. To the rest of you I say - do what you feel comfortable with.
On that note I will bow out of this discussion and find another thread to be argumentative in. :biggrin:
I wasn't aware that an officer needed probable cause to run a serial number that he simply happened to learn. Of course, PC would be required to request to see a firearm for the purpose of a running the number.
In the New Jersey town I lived in years ago, police would routinely run license plates without PC and without the driver's knowledge. When by using this practice they apprehended several juveniles in a stolen car, there was an outcry from community "activists" that the officers must have been "profiling" and had no right to run plates without PC. As I remember, the court ruled that the police could run plates whenever they so desired. (The point was rendered moot anyway, when all the juveniles were released without sanction.)
I would think that the same principle applies to serial numbers on guns, but maybe it doesn't.
In the New Jersey town I lived in years ago, police would routinely run license plates without PC and without the driver's knowledge. When by using this practice they apprehended several juveniles in a stolen car, there was an outcry from community "activists" that the officers must have been "profiling" and had no right to run plates without PC. As I remember, the court ruled that the police could run plates whenever they so desired. (The point was rendered moot anyway, when all the juveniles were released without sanction.)
I would think that the same principle applies to serial numbers on guns, but maybe it doesn't.
Treo
Bullet Proof
I'm sure I'm not going to get this right but here goes.
Your license plate is posted in public anyone can see it so you have no reasonable expectation of privacy. On most guns you would have to take the gun out of the holster( search / siezure?) to read the serial number.
In Colorado a LEO may inspect the chamber of any long gun in the vehicle to ensure that is isn't loaded ( poaching law)
And yet, they do. Happened to me personally. Ran the motorcycle tag number, checked for outstanding warrants, ran the gun, checked the CCW permit. All for running a stop sign (they said), altho I didn't get a ticket. One disclaimer, FWIW: I was wearing a patch on my back.
So, if the student must double check what the instructor says, why not just hand out a booklet with the laws printed in it with the CCW permit and do away with mandatory training?
Treo
Bullet Proof
Come :biggrin:n dude. You should know by now I don't even think we should be required to get a permit. Do you really think i'm going to disagree on the question of doing away w/ training?
You won't, but someone will be along before today is over that will! (And they will be self-professed "pro-2A", too!)
