Ignoring Gun Buster signage.

[Ruger357SP101]

As to respecting rights, I do not believe in "rights" 1.
A person has only the rights that they are prepared to secure by force 2.
This applies to people as well as governments.
So, if a property owner is prepared to keep me off his property by force 3, I pretty much have a choice to make.
I will probably follow his wishes unless there is something that I REALLY need to do on his property 4 (seldom the case).


I believe that a person only has the "right" to tell me what to do if he has the means to enforce what he is telling me 5.
Otherwise, he can pretty well kiss my hind end.

The more I read this the worse it seems.

This guy believes;
1. We dont have rights.
2. We only have the rights we can FIGHT for.
3. We can only keep him off our property if we are prepared to keep him off by force.
4. He 'probably' will stay off our land UNLESS there is something he 'really needs' to do on our property.
5. He apparently doenst need to recognize anyones rights unless they 'have the means' to back up our rights.


So we can conclude from this that;
1. If he 'really needs' something on your private property 5 and you are not prepared to use force 3 he apparently will NOT 'probably follow' your wishes in the matter.

Hmmm.
So in his mind if he 'really needs' your car...apparently youd better be 'prepared' to 'use force' to stop him.

Or if he gets it in his head to rape your wife or daughter because he 'really needs' it bad, then youd better be prepared to use force to stop him.

Apparently he has no SELF control that most normal people has but is very clearly an antisocial sociopath.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Here is the definition of Public Property:

Public property is property which is owned collectively by the people as a whole. This is in contrast to private property, owned by a individual person or artificial entities that represent the financial interests of persons, such as corporations.[1] State ownership, also called public ownership, government ownership or state property, are property interests that are vested in the state, rather than an individual or communities.[2]

However, even on the corporations private property it is illegal for them to discriminate against a person based on gender, race or religion. The Supreme Court in Heller and McDonald is moving more and more towards placing the right to keep and bear arms on equal footing with race, religion and gender. Once they do, it will be interesting to see if they ban discrimination against firearms the same way discrimination against race, religion and gender is.

I hope that in my lifetime I see a no guns sign to become just as illegal as a no jews, no blacks or no women sign.

 

[Lakeland Man]

However, even on the corporations private property it is illegal for them to discriminate against a person based on gender, race or religion. The Supreme Court in Heller and McDonald is moving more and more towards placing the right to keep and bear arms on equal footing with race, religion and gender. Once they do, it will be interesting to see if they ban discrimination against firearms the same way discrimination against race, religion and gender is.

I hope that in my lifetime I see a no guns sign to become just as illegal as a no jews, no blacks or no women sign.

You are correct that these classes of people cannot be discriminated against on private property. They were specifically mentioned in the Civil Rights Act of 1964. I truly do hope that one day, we, as gun owners, get the same consideration they they do.

 

[NavyLCDR]

You are correct that these classes of people cannot be discriminated against on private property. They were specifically mentioned in the Civil Rights Act of 1964. I truly do hope that one day, we, as gun owners, get the same consideration they they do.

Not directed at you Lakeland Man....

So....are we "trampling" on these poor business owners rights by forcing them to accept blacks, jews and women in their businesses if they don't want them there?!?

 

[Ruger357SP101]

Not directed at you Lakeland Man....

So....are we "trampling" on these poor business owners rights by forcing them to accept blacks, jews and women in their businesses if they don't want them there?!?

You and this asinine idiocy you keep trying to push.

There is a difference between a human beings skin color and not wanting DEADLY WEAPONS on your property.
That you are too ignorant to figure out the difference says multitudes about your ability to reason and form coherent thought processes.

That said, yes, a business owner DOES have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason.
If blacks or whites or whatever feel theyve been violated, there are courts of law to take it up in....sue them if one wants to in civil court.

And you need to learn to READ, poster....this was covered already in these threads.

 

[NavyLCDR]

You and this asinine idiocy you keep trying to push.

There is a difference between a human beings skin color and not wanting DEADLY WEAPONS on your property.
That you are too ignorant to figure out the difference says multitudes about your ability to reason and form coherent thought processes.

That said, yes, a business owner DOES have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason.
If blacks or whites or whatever feel theyve been violated, there are courts of law to take it up in....sue them if one wants to in civil court.

And you need to learn to READ, poster....this was covered already in these threads.

Why is it that it is impossible for you to have a civil conversation? It's like you are an internet sociopath or something. Did your mom beat you as a child and now you think you have to take it out on us? You are a very angry person on the inside.

The 2nd Amendment is just as much a part of the bill of rights as all the others, so why should the right to keep AND BEAR arms be treated with any less equality than any of the rest.

 

[Ruger357SP101]

Why is it that it is impossible for you to have a civil conversation? It's like you are an internet sociopath or something. Did your mom beat you as a child and now you think you have to take it out on us? You are a very angry person on the inside.

yeah yeah yeah....you got a point or what?
I already know what youre up to, N...its been pretty obvious for a day or so.

The 2nd Amendment is just as much a part of the bill of rights as all the others, so why should the right to keep AND BEAR arms be treated with any less equality than any of the rest.

Sorry no one is hindering your right to bear arms, friend.
You can find another store that doesnt have a sign up.

 

[Ruger357SP101]

The 2nd Amendment is just as much a part of the bill of rights as all the others, so why should the right to keep AND BEAR arms be treated with any less equality than any of the rest.

And why should the 1st be any less?

Lets try something.
I want come to YOUR home ....YOUR private property...or hell, YOUR private business even...and when I get there Im going to exercise my freedom of speech in the best way I know how.
Granted your wife and children may not enjoy the colorful language, and if you have any customers and friends they may not be for long....but Im SURE you will overlook all that just so you can let me exercise MY 1st Amendment rights on YOUR private property.

You game?
Because Im VERY certain that my exercising my freedom of speech in your neck of the woods would have you re-evaluating your views as to whether YOU want other folks exercising THEIR rights in YOUR personal space.

See, I contain myself as best I can because this is a forum where I realize moderation doesnt want me saying some of the things to you that I can easily come up with.
See, thats ME trying my best to show a little bit of honor in someone elses space who certainly wont be too appreciative of the sort of things I might have to present.
Now, if I were like you, Id say to hell with the forum owners here and say things to and about some of you and what I really feel and not give a damn about the 'rights' of the owners and moderators here.
But this isnt my house. So I'll do my best to show a little respect and NOT exercise my 1st amendment rights here as Id love to do.

I realize thats a concept some of you cant grasp because this game is all about you baby...

 

[Deanimator]

Why is it that it is impossible for you to have a civil conversation? It's like you are an internet sociopath or something. Did your mom beat you as a child and now you think you have to take it out on us? You are a very angry person on the inside.

Isn't it VERY interesting that the ONLY right that the Man from A.H.S.A. believes in is the "right" for a business owner to ban guns in his business?

4th Amendment? 5th Amendment? They're just for "troublemakers".

Now banning guns, that's IMPORTANT!

 

[Bighouse Doc]

Time to lock this thread

-Doc

 

[Itstjs]

Kickin a dead horse now...

 

[Axeanda45]

Its a common misconception that a business is public property. But the reality is that it is still privately owned so it is private property.

Public property can also be divided up into categories (i.e. parks, public areas, military installations, etc) but in the eyes of the law, it is still public.

Where, in ANY of my posts have I said that Business property was Public property?

I'll give you a hint: NOWHERE!!!!!!!!

You are confusing the concept of "inviting the public into/onto" with the concept of "ownership"

The same rights the people have while they are out there walking along the sidewalk on "public" property is the same rights they have when YOU, as a business owner invite them into/onto YOUR property....


Another poster said this in this thread:

Your "rule" isn't a right. Property rights are defined as the free possession and use of property without interference. By carrying my sidearm into a business, I am not denying them the possession or use, nor am I interfering with other customers being there. However, by attempting to request that I not bring a sidearm in (and it is a request), they are interfering with my property rights.

That statement put it much clearer than I have ever been able to......

 

[lukem]

We do not allow pissing on the forums. You and the others involved have all been warned. Next report will get you a temporary ban. Everyone had their own opinions but we don't need that to turn into pissing matches on the forums.