H.R. 218 L.E.O. Safety Act of 2004


svalent

New member
Hello Everyone.

I am going to pose a question to all the membership, especially Lawyers, Police Chiefs, Police officers, A.G.s, D.A.s and the politicians who wrote this bill.

I am a retired NJ police officer, and since I am not an attorney I am still having problems with the interpretation of this Bill.
I live in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania having retired from a police agency in New Jersey. I possess a PA CCW permit and recently restored my NJ CCW permit for Retired LEOs.

My question is this: Does this now, under H.R. 218, allow me to carry in all 50 states (subject to some restrictions such as Govt bldgs and airplains etc)?

There is still so much vagueness regarding this bill and some states still resist to give any definitive information about this. I don't want to get "jacked up" over carrying in an anti-carry state.

Thanking all of you in advance for any information you can give,

Steve Valent, Cpl
City of Rahway, NJ PD
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
I can answer that since Nevada civilian CFP instructors are in a somewhat unique position of being allowed to do LEOSA range qualifications for Nevada.

In Nevada, civilian CCW instructors can be delegated by State law by the County Sheriff to do the range qualification portion of LEOSA if the county sheriff does not wish to do it themselves internally by their department. LVMPD for Clark County Nevada has delegated that to CCW instructors. The respective county sheriff in Nevada does the background check and verifies LEOSA status then issues the retired LEOSA ID card and the qualification card.

You need to have a retirement LEO ID issued to you by the agency certifying you for LEOSA. The agency that has jurisdiction over LEOSA certification for PA is who you need to talk to. Certification is handled by the agency who has jurisdiction over where the retiree resides. If you were living in Las Vegas Nevada, it would be LVMPD. It may be your county sheriff, your local PD or State police. It greatly varies from State to State.

Just being a retired LEO with 15 years of honorable service with State issued CCWs is not enough, you must have a LEOSA ID card and qualify annually. In Nevada, we have two cards issued by the county sheriff's CCW detail or unit from the county you reside in; one showing you're a retired LEO that meets the service requirements for LEOSA and the other stating you've qualified for the year.
 

Jerseyguy

Jerseyguy
HR 218 Class

There was an H.R. 218 Class at the Essex County Police Academy the other day which answered your questions. There will be another on 14 April. I also know the Chief at Rahway P.D. Call Chief Rodger and ask if the lawyer who taught at the ECPA (which is also a partner to his City lawyer) will have a class at Rahway for current and retired LEOs.:yu:
 
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LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
There was an H.R. 218 Class at the Essex County Police Academy the other day which answered your questions. There will be another on 14 April. I also know the Chief at Rahway P.D. Call Chief Rodger and ask if the lawyer who taught at the ECPA (which is also a partner to his City lawyer) will have a class at Rahway for current and retired LEOs.:yu:
That won't fly. He lives in PA which means he must qualify for LEOSA in PA. Link Removed.

Here's the relevant portion of Link Removed;
(B) a certification issued by the State in which the individual resides that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State to meet the standards established by the State for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.​

The OP has three options;
  • Move back to NJ.
  • Wait for PA to develop a LEOSA certification process until which he's just a civilian who has to get the same CCWs we non-LEOs do.
  • Move to another jurisdiction that does LEOSA certifications.
 

Jerseyguy

Jerseyguy
Retired LEOs

Thx for that update. I must admit that as a current LEO I have not yet focused on the LEOSA details for retirees as much. I do, however, know a retired NJ LEO who lives out of state who does have a HR 218 retired card, but I think he used a relatives address in NJ as a secondary residence.
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
Thx for that update. I must admit that as a current LEO I have not yet focused on the LEOSA details for retirees as much. I do, however, know a retired NJ LEO who lives out of state who does have a HR 218 retired card, but I think he used a relatives address in NJ as a secondary residence.
I would have him consult an attorney who has been admitted to the federal bar to verify that's legal. I don't think it is.

I interpret residency for LEOSA the same as it is for the resident/non-resident CCWs. DL and LEOSA qualification should be issued by the same State.

Here are the typical definitions of residency;
  • The State that issues your DL (primary declaration of residency)
  • The State you're registered to vote in.
  • The State you declare as your address on your federal tax returns.
  • The State that issues license plates for vehicles you drive most of the time.
  • The State you file State income tax in
  • The State where you have filed a declaration of homestead if you own real property
Even the pro-RKBA States will call someone to the carpet if LEOSA isn't followed to the letter. Here in Nevada, it's a category C felony. It's not worth the risk, do it right.
 

Tomas

New member
Question for Netentity

Can you tell me under 218 as a retiree, can I carry my Sig 9mm with 15 rounds in Nevada? Thanks
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
Can you tell me under 218 as a retiree, can I carry my Sig 9mm with 15 rounds in Nevada? Thanks
Nevada has no magazine capacity restrictions. You could legally carry a semi-auto AR-15 or AK-47 pistol with a drums as those meet statutory definition of a handgun per the NRS and LEOSA. I'd be interested to see how you could conceal it though. :laugh:

The only States with magazine capacity restrictions are CA, HI, MA, MD, NJ and NY(C). I do not know if their magazine restriction laws apply to LEOSA qualified retirees. Looking at the laws of those States gives me a bigger headache than the IRS code.
 

Jerseyguy

Jerseyguy
Sheepdog Academy recently supplied the following:

March 2009: Plymouth, MA Police Officer Kevin Coakley was off-duty at home when he was arrested and charged with unlawful possession of a personal high-capacity Glock handgun and unlawful discharge in violation of state law. Coakley fired at a coyote in self-defense. After consultation with Steve Mannion, Esq., his counsel argued LEOSA in response to the possession charge. The Court dismissed the possession charge without decision and continued the remaining charges for one year pending good behavior. People of Massachusetts v. Kevin Coakley, (2009).
 
Nevada has no magazine capacity restrictions. You could legally carry a semi-auto AR-15 or AK-47 pistol with a drums as those meet statutory definition of a handgun per the NRS and LEOSA. I'd be interested to see how you could conceal it though. :laugh:

The only States with magazine capacity restrictions are CA, HI, MA, MD, NJ and NY(C). I do not know if their magazine restriction laws apply to LEOSA qualified retirees. Looking at the laws of those States gives me a bigger headache than the IRS code.


According to my sources here in PRHI, LEOSA applies to the firearm. The magazine restrictions may still apply. I say "may" because it's a gray area that's contingent mostly on the officer and county where you encounter the local LE. Honolulu county will detain the person in question until credentials can be verified unless the person in question has already applied for and received a permit to carry. In the process of verifying the credentials, the LEO may decide to charge under HRS 134-8.




gf
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
According to my sources here in PRHI, LEOSA applies to the firearm. The magazine restrictions may still apply. I say "may" because it's a gray area that's contingent mostly on the officer and county where you encounter the local LE. Honolulu county will detain the person in question until credentials can be verified unless the person in question has already applied for and received a permit to carry. In the process of verifying the credentials, the LEO may decide to charge under HRS 134-8.
Unfortunately we have no case law on this issue.
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
Sheepdog Academy recently supplied the following:

March 2009: Plymouth, MA Police Officer Kevin Coakley was off-duty at home when he was arrested and charged with unlawful possession of a personal high-capacity Glock handgun and unlawful discharge in violation of state law. Coakley fired at a coyote in self-defense. After consultation with Steve Mannion, Esq., his counsel argued LEOSA in response to the possession charge. The Court dismissed the possession charge without decision and continued the remaining charges for one year pending good behavior. People of Massachusetts v. Kevin Coakley, (2009).
It appears that this was heard in a MA and not a US Court unless you can provide more information on the case. While that case law may be applied in other States which magazine capacity restrictions I wouldn't bank on it unless it was heard in a US Court.
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
Thanks for the info. Where does Nevada law preclude you from carrying? eg. casinos etc
The only places under LEOSA you need to worry about are;

Posted buildings or buildings with a metal detector at each entrance; keep in mind under 18 926C signage does have force of law for LEOSA holders even if the property is not statutorily prohibited for NV CFP holders. If a casino is posted for no firearms, I can legally carry there under the authority of my NV CFP however you cannot because of the operative phrase unde Link Removed;

(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that—
(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property​

So if you carry under LEOSA in a posted casino or other establishment you could be charged with a category C felony.

Depending on the language of the sign used, you could legally carry in posted "public buildings" in Nevada. If it's a blanket no firearms sign then no. If the language of the sign specifically references NRS 202.3673 then you should be ok.

The flip side to that is that you can legally carry in licensed child care facilities that are not otherwise posted in Nevada because there's an exemption for peace officers, it makes no differentiation for active duty or retired peace officers. That area is prohibited under NRS 202.265.
 

Jerseyguy

Jerseyguy
Not so quick

Yes LEOs may be exempt under Nevada law on school property, but if off-duty they violate the Fed Gun Free School Zone. LEOSA does not protect against that fed law.:hang3:
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
Yes LEOs may be exempt under Nevada law on school property, but if off-duty they violate the Fed Gun Free School Zone. LEOSA does not protect against that fed law.
I have to fumble sometime, mark this day on your calendar folks. It doesn't happen often. I'm not too narcissistic to say it never happens.

There's however, a legal gray area if you're LEOSA certified. If someone is LEOSA certified in Nevada, does qualify as a federal gun free school zone act exemption for Nevada since the county sheriff had to issue the qualification credentials? That's a question best addressed by BATFE and a member of the US bar. I see a coin toss decision that one.

Of course the easy way around this is to get a CCW in the State you reside then it becomes a moot issue if you expect to be in K-12 schools. You do get the licensed Nevada child care facility prohibition waived though.

It does not, however, affect active duty LEOs. An active duty LEO is a big gray area depending on department policy.
 

Jerseyguy

Jerseyguy
Meaning of Retired In Good Standing

A retired NJ LEO is fighting the denial of his HR 218 carry permit. His former employer raised 2 objections to his retired permit. First, they argue he was fired before he received his State in the line of duty physical disability retirement. Second, they argue he should be disqualified for attending 3 stress therapy sessions. This is a case to watch. Also, the Essex County, NJ Police Academy is holding its next Understanding HR 218-LEOSA seminar on August 26, 2009 from 6p-9p.:pleasantry:
 

G50AE

Active member
LEOSA does not exempt one from magazine capacity restrictions, or other silliness like California's not-unsafe list of acceptable firearms.
 

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