GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE Explained.

[TexasBB]

I will say that in today's climate I agree that all gun sales private and public must go through a FFL to create a paper trail and to make sure that Friend you think you know is legal to own a Firearm. How would you know that if you do a private transfer between 2 friends, if one of you is forbidden from owning firearms due to a criminal record that someone received prior to moving next to you 5, 10, 15 years ago. Do you understand where I am going with this? It's time that you as a gun owner held responsibly to who you sell your gun too. If that person were to commit a crime with that firearm I would agree that you as the seller didn't properly vet the buyer so you should face charges depending on whatever the crime was.
I as a FFL vet everyone very carefully and I discount the fee as I suspect most FFL'S would when it's a transfer between friends, clubmates, etc.

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If the main objective is to keep guns from criminals please explain how this will have ANY impact? Because criminals will follow this one law? The only people this will affect are the people who follow laws. If laws against murder will not deter murderers, do you seriously think a law requiring a background check will?


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[TexasBB]

Amazing how many brainwashed people there are on here thinking they are 2A supporters but in reality they are PROUD OF THE INFRINGEMENTS THEY HAVE TO ABIDE WITH AND RIDICULE THOSE WHO ARE REAL SUPPORTERS OF THE 2A.... and are actually wishing they had MORE infringements to abide by, and that they applied to more of us!!!

+1



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[maybejim]

I will say that in today's climate I agree that all gun sales private and public must go through a FFL to create a paper trail and to make sure that Friend you think you know is legal to own a Firearm. How would you know that if you do a private transfer between 2 friends, if one of you is forbidden from owning firearms due to a criminal record that someone received prior to moving next to you 5, 10, 15 years ago. Do you understand where I am going with this? It's time that you as a gun owner held responsibly to who you sell your gun too. If that person were to commit a crime with that firearm I would agree that you as the seller didn't properly vet the buyer so you should face charges depending on whatever the crime was.
I as a FFL vet everyone very carefully and I discount the fee as I suspect most FFL'S would when it's a transfer between friends, clubmates, etc.

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Gee, do you hold for the same thing for the sale of automobiles (which are involved in more deaths than guns)? The fact is all this "background check" nonsense has not been shown to reduce crime or violence or murders or suicides. It is an unconstitutional infringement on the right to self defense.

 

[vmgram427]

How does it infringe on your self defense? If anything you would want to know that the police would be able to solve crimes because legal guns have a paper trail. Again, I really want to know what is the problem with going through an FFL for your firearm purchases? I have issues with possibly selling a gun to a person who maybe over the last few years had a few bad brakes and things have happened but you have no clue because to you he's your best bud Johnny on the spot. You sell him a gun and he shoots his wife and kids, what should happen to you?

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[bofh]

Amazing how many brainwashed people there are on here thinking they are 2A supporters but in reality they are PROUD OF THE INFRINGEMENTS THEY HAVE TO ABIDE WITH AND RIDICULE THOSE WHO ARE REAL SUPPORTERS OF THE 2A.... and are actually wishing they had MORE infringements to abide by, and that they applied to more of us!!!

+1.

 

[NavyLCDR]

How does it infringe on your self defense? If anything you would want to know that the police would be able to solve crimes because legal guns have a paper trail. Again, I really want to know what is the problem with going through an FFL for your firearm purchases? I have issues with possibly selling a gun to a person who maybe over the last few years had a few bad brakes and things have happened but you have no clue because to you he's your best bud Johnny on the spot. You sell him a gun and he shoots his wife and kids, what should happen to you?

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What if he buys a knife and Walmart and stabs his wife and kids to death? What should happen to Walmart?

 

[bofh]

You know Steve40th you sound like the person we should be looking at for before we get on flights. You sound like a nut. What are you afraid of? I live in the most ****** up state of New York and I registered my guns that this communist state deemed illegal, so what I can still use them. That is why the states need to come together and agree on one rule for a pistol license so we don't have to have a non resident license for a state I would visit I can use home carry conceal license to travel around the country, wouldn't that be great? Maybe we can get the states to agree on what exactly is an assault rifle because I'm getting sick and tired of talking to people who don't have a ******* clue what one is and trying to explain it to them is like talking to a wall but the wall answers back.

How does it infringe on your self defense? If anything you would want to know that the police would be able to solve crimes because legal guns have a paper trail. Again, I really want to know what is the problem with going through an FFL for your firearm purchases? I have issues with possibly selling a gun to a person who maybe over the last few years had a few bad brakes and things have happened but you have no clue because to you he's your best bud Johnny on the spot. You sell him a gun and he shoots his wife and kids, what should happen to you?

Legal guns would have a paper trail. Illegal guns would still not have one. The only purpose of gun registration is eventual confiscation of legally owned ones. Congratulations, you completed part 1 of this scheme.

You can already carry in my state. It is your state that I can not carry in. Your state is the problem, not mine. There is no need for the states to come together to agree on a permit system by taking away freedoms from some states in order to comply with the hostage demands of other states.

The term "assault rifle" is pretty well defined. I am not sure what your problem is.

Your Johnny straw man argument is pretty straight forward as well (as explained by NavyLCDR). If you have a problem with selling someone a firearm, then don't. If you want to make sure that a background check is performed, then use a FFL. It is a personal decision. Just don't force your personal decision on 100,000,000+ gun owners in the US by requiring a FFL for private transfers.

 

[maybejim]

How does it infringe on your self defense? If anything you would want to know that the police would be able to solve crimes because legal guns have a paper trail. Again, I really want to know what is the problem with going through an FFL for your firearm purchases? I have issues with possibly selling a gun to a person who maybe over the last few years had a few bad brakes and things have happened but you have no clue because to you he's your best bud Johnny on the spot. You sell him a gun and he shoots his wife and kids, what should happen to you?

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Police don't solve crimes because a gun has a paper trail. If it's stolen there is no paper trail. If it belongs to the shooter, he didn't leave it at the scene of a crime. You (or the manufacturer in spite of what Hillary wants) are not responsible for what someone does with something that once belonged to you. It's simply more left wing idiocy that wants to try to blame everyone except the perpetrator. Going through an FFL is a charge on a Constitutional right and is simply one more way for the government to price self defense away from the people. It accomplishes nothing except to make sure the poor who live in the most crime ridden neighborhoods can not afford to be able to defend themselves. It is one more Jim Crow law that we can clearly see by the statistics of crime in our inner cities serves no function other than to disarm law abiding citizens.

 

[FNWylde]

I have issues with possibly selling a gun to a person who maybe over the last few years had a few bad brakes and things have happened but you have no clue because to you he's your best bud Johnny on the spot. You sell him a gun and he shoots his wife and kids, what should happen to you?

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Holy **** you go to great lengths to fabricate a scenario to explain a reason to control gun sales. I'm sure you could go on...and on...and on. First, you'd know if your best friend was having troubles. And if you were his best friend, you'd help. Geez, stop acting stupid.

But the answer to your question is, under your assertion that the seller didn't know....nothing.

 

[vmgram427]

FNWylde, how many times do you hear people, friends say "they were such nice people" we didn't see anything wrong. At least with a FFL you have another person who may nothing to do with you or the person who is buying or selling. The responsibility of the FFL is also to evaluate the people who come to pick up a Firearm. I just don't give every moron that can fill out his name a clean slate, I talk to them, ask a lot of questions see what kind of answers I get. I get what you guys in the south enjoy but for us in the northeast it's a different animal. Do I like it hell no but the things that I don't like have nothing to do with the requirements in reference to the FFL requirements. My issues are with the limitations of the magazine capacity, the restrictions on the stock, pistol grip, magazine, threaded barrel, etc. I don't give a **** the fact that I have to send my guns to an FFL or if I want to sell one of my guns again I have to go through my FFL to complete the transaction. The fact that you and a few you do worries me. Do you actually think big brother is actually going to come down and take all your guns?

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[FNWylde]

You only hear people say that on the news, and then it gets repeated so often that you start to believe you hear it all the time. With FFLs, they'll just continue to get more rules and exceptions until no one meets your nursemaid's(government) criteria. Remember the servicemen who are deemed unstable by virtue of their service and shouldn't own guns...that'll be a new rule. The guy who couldn't sleep and was prescribed a sleeping aid...yep, everyone like him will be out too. Like you, I'm sure I could go on for a while.

 

[vernsimpson]

FNWylde, how many times do you hear people, friends say "they were such nice people" we didn't see anything wrong. At least with a FFL you have another person who may nothing to do with you or the person who is buying or selling. The responsibility of the FFL is also to evaluate the people who come to pick up a Firearm. I just don't give every moron that can fill out his name a clean slate, I talk to them, ask a lot of questions see what kind of answers I get. I get what you guys in the south enjoy but for us in the northeast it's a different animal. Do I like it hell no but the things that I don't like have nothing to do with the requirements in reference to the FFL requirements. My issues are with the limitations of the magazine capacity, the restrictions on the stock, pistol grip, magazine, threaded barrel, etc. I don't give a **** the fact that I have to send my guns to an FFL or if I want to sell one of my guns again I have to go through my FFL to complete the transaction. The fact that you and a few you do worries me. Do you actually think big brother is actually going to come down and take all your guns?

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I really doubt that you "talk" to every buyer. Unless you have a degree in psychoanalysis, even if you do talk to them I really do not believe you can pick out some nut case!

 

[vmgram427]

I agree with you, if the liberals keep allowing there will when it comes to the gun laws then I agree we will have a lot of problems.

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[vmgram427]

The average person that comes to me stays from anywhere between a 1/2 hour to 45 minutes, not because I'm still doing the 4473 no we're conversing long after the FBI business is over and no don't have a degree in psychology but I do have common sense and since I've been around guns my whole life.

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[maybejim]

The average person that comes to me stays from anywhere between a 1/2 hour to 45 minutes, not because I'm still doing the 4473 no we're conversing long after the FBI business is over and no don't have a degree in psychology but I do have common sense and since I've been around guns my whole life.

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So you talk to folks and then refuse to sell to them even if their record is clean because you are such a great judge of people? Really? You do realize that multiple studies have shown that criminals almost never get their guns through FFL's and over 90% of the turn downs on background checks are wrong and the sale eventually goes down? The background check is serving no useful purpose except to take money from law abiding citizens and make it more difficult and more expensive for them to buy a gun.

 

[Bikenut]

Originally Posted by vmgram427 View Post
FNWylde, how many times do you hear people, friends say "they were such nice people" we didn't see anything wrong. At least with a FFL you have another person who may nothing to do with you or the person who is buying or selling. The responsibility of the FFL is also to evaluate the people who come to pick up a Firearm. I just don't give every moron that can fill out his name a clean slate, I talk to them, ask a lot of questions see what kind of answers I get. I get what you guys in the south enjoy but for us in the northeast it's a different animal. Do I like it hell no but the things that I don't like have nothing to do with the requirements in reference to the FFL requirements. My issues are with the limitations of the magazine capacity, the restrictions on the stock, pistol grip, magazine, threaded barrel, etc. I don't give a **** the fact that I have to send my guns to an FFL or if I want to sell one of my guns again I have to go through my FFL to complete the transaction. The fact that you and a few you do worries me. Do you actually think big brother is actually going to come down and take all your guns?

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The average person that comes to me stays from anywhere between a 1/2 hour to 45 minutes, not because I'm still doing the 4473 no we're conversing long after the FBI business is over and no don't have a degree in psychology but I do have common sense and since I've been around guns my whole life.

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Why do I get the impression that what you really said was......

I'm so special I want to be in control of who is and, most importantly, who is NOT allowed to have guns. Anyone who I think isn't reasonable, appropriate, or acceptable (to me) should not be allowed to have a gun.

And that is the exact same mentality of every anti gunner everywhere.

See my sig line below and note the parts that are in bold....

 

[golocx4]

My guns are not registered, or will they ever be. Its not illegal to sell in SC to a private seller, and we are both SC residents. I have no legal or moral obligation to go to a FFL with my FIL to ensure his background is good to buy a pistol. He has a CWP, therefore his background is good, and besides, state doesnt require me to initiate a FFL background check.

You have just described what they describe as . "the gun show loophole". Even the section on the 4473 about buying a gun as a gift will be removed.

Before I moved to NY I lived in a "free" state as you do now. What I have seen and experienced in NY makes my blood boil.
I have my CCW and every handgun I own is "registered" with NY State. We cannot have AR-15's and can only have a max of 10 boolits in a magazine in the North side of the state and 7 in the South side. I am simply trying to warn you all be be alert and fight these bastards because the Democrat politicians are once again dancing in the blood of shooting victims demanding what they call "reasonable gun control" and preaching closing the gun show loophole.

They really want to see NY type laws go nationwide. They are also delusional because once you get out side of the eastern seaboard states like NY NJ Maryland, Mass and DC these gun control laws won't fly. (or at least they shouldn't)

I am simply trying to warn the other states to be on guard and fight the BS coming from these NE metrosexual genitalia obsessed baby chopping gender confused hoplophobic progressives. Don't trust Chris Chirsty either he is one of them.

 

[RonM0710]

I don't want to have to go thru an FFL to sell my firearm to my neighbor. But what I see as the GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE is that anybody with cash can buy a gun outside any gunshow in the parking lot. This means Aucmed the terrorist, or a convicted violent felon as long as he is from that state. The parking lot salesman at most checks to see if he is from that state. THAT IS THE REAL GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE!

 

[BluesStringer]

I don't want to have to go thru an FFL to sell my firearm to my neighbor. But what I see as the GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE is that anybody with cash can buy a gun outside any gunshow in the parking lot. This means Aucmed the terrorist, or a convicted violent felon as long as he is from that state. The parking lot salesman at most checks to see if he is from that state. THAT IS THE REAL GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE!

The "parking lot salesman" is nearly always parked either at his own house or his buyer's house. If you're going to do a private sale, why go to a gun show in the first place? You can advertise for free with Penny Saver type publications almost everywhere, and there's no admission charge to meet either at one of your homes or in the local Walmart (or any other public) parking lot. If your private buyer is indeed an in-state resident, there's nothing illegal about selling him/her your weapon, nor is there anything illegal about deciding not to sell him/her your weapon should your "spidey-sense" go all haywire once you meet them. You would like all weapons transfers to go through an FFL because you're concerned that you aren't a good enough judge of character to decide whether or not to sell weapons privately to anyone you choose to within the current law?

Fortunately, I do not suffer from such a deficiency, and neither do the private sellers that I choose to do business with.

Blues

 

[todwatts]

Personally, if they are going to require FFls broker sales between two American citizens ... then we should really stiffen the laws governing FFL's ... maybe make them get a PhD in law enforcement BEFORE they are allowed to be FFLs ... maybe quadruple (or more) the FFL license fee, make the fee annual... have FFL's pay to get a notarized signature or appear between a civic judge for approval of each sale ... tightened government oversight of FFL's ... requiring a licensing renewal test ... require FFL overseers visit each FFL at least once a month.

Yeah, that would work great.

I am shocked that some FFLs here sincerely believe they can tell a crazy person from a sane person. Ted Bundy? John Wayne Gacy?

Come on, get a grip FFLs rather than start counting your increased fees ....