Gun owner unarmed, unwelcome in Maryland

[apvbguy]

I'm definitely not picking on either of you here... but, does NSA spying ring a bell? The authoritarians in our midst are sharing everything with every law enforcement and regulatory agency - any official body, anywhere, in whom you may come in contact is going to know virtually everything about you. Legal or not, rightfully shared or unlawfully acquired, the security/police state will only continue to extend its power and influence.
(If anyone has a police officer buddy you can trust - ask them if you can see the file they receive when they look you up on their monitors. Even now the info is freighting and they're only going to have more in the future)

the super duty tin foil hats can be found in aisle 8

 

[Rhino]

fla cwfl are not connected to any dmv records, a cop would need to access the DOACS files in order to obtain such records and I can be fairly certain that a MD tunnel cop does not have direct access to that data base

I don't know what DOACS is and Google doesn't tell, but I'm told Florida FCIC does link concealed carry status to the registered owner of a vehicle, much the same as LEADS does here in Ohio. I've found links to other Florida traffic stops that bear that out, i.e. the officer making the stop knew the registered owner of the vehicle had a concealed carry permit. It is a permit in Florida, right? It's a license here.

 

[apvbguy]

I don't know what DOACS is and Google doesn't tell, but I'm told Florida FCIC does link concealed carry status to the registered owner of a vehicle, much the same as LEADS does here in Ohio. I've found links to other Florida traffic stops that bear that out, i.e. the officer making the stop knew the registered owner of the vehicle had a concealed carry permit. It is a permit in Florida, right? It's a license here.

I don't know who told you what, and when I google DOACS it comes up #1.
I can state unequivocally that a FLA CWFL (concealed weapons and firearms license) is not tied into any DMV database, DOACS, dept of agricultural and consumer affairs is the issuing agency and they maintain their own data base which can be access by law enforcement but it is not readily available on a motor vehicle stop. In other words a check on a D/L or Plate will not generate the fact that the driver has a CWFL.
I don't give a rats butt how things are done in other states, and listening to morons who dispense piss poor info will only get you more problems.
It is not a permit in FLA, see above.
A MD tunnel cop would not be able to gain easy access to the FLA DOACS cwfl database on a normal traffic stop.

 

[MI .45]

the super duty tin foil hats can be found in aisle 8

Indeed:

- https://www.aclu.org/spy-files
- Link Removed (see N-DEx - to believe that these LE agencies will strictly confine themselves to the legal boundries is simply foolish.)
- Link Removed (note: LE's "Parallel Construction" investigative methods.)

None of the above may provide positive proof to anyone's complete liking but if one connects the dots it's a close reach that virtually any information on anyone can (and will) be made available to those designated as "needing to know". In today's data technology processing, in just a few minutes, any decent programmer can write a permanant program that can arrange for anyone to be seen by any cop in any state. What's to stop this - some law in some obscure state HR?

Elected officials, bureaucrats, various LE agencies, some LEO's, etc. in every part and at every level of our country have been proven to be power hungry, untrustworthy, venal, and selfserving. How is it conspiracy theory to believe that these entities will be anything other than what they have proven themselves to be all along?

 

[apvbguy]

Indeed:

- https://www.aclu.org/spy-files
- Link Removed (see N-DEx - to believe that these LE agencies will strictly confine themselves to the legal boundries is simply foolish.)
- Link Removed (note: LE's "Parallel Construction" investigative methods.)

None of the above may provide positive proof to anyone's complete liking but if one connects the dots it's a close reach that virtually any information on anyone can (and will) be made available to those designated as "needing to know". In today's data technology processing, in just a few minutes, any decent programmer can write a permanant program that can arrange for anyone to be seen by any cop in any state. What's to stop this - some law in some obscure state HR?

Elected officials, bureaucrats, various LE agencies, some LEO's, etc. in every part and at every level of our country have been proven to be power hungry, untrustworthy, venal, and selfserving. How is it conspiracy theory to believe that these entities will be anything other than what they have proven themselves to be all along?

that's all well a good, but a tunnel cop in MD has no need to know if someone has a FLA permit, cops in FLA have a hard enough time getting access to the proper database

 

[Rhino]

I don't know who told you what, and when I google DOACS it comes up #1.

The department comes up, yes, but I thought you were referring to a database called DOACS. That's what I couldn't find.

I can state unequivocally that a FLA CWFL (concealed weapons and firearms license) is not tied into any DMV database, DOACS, dept of agricultural and consumer affairs is the issuing agency and they maintain their own data base which can be access by law enforcement but it is not readily available on a motor vehicle stop. In other words a check on a D/L or Plate will not generate the fact that the driver has a CWFL.
I don't give a rats butt how things are done in other states, and listening to morons who dispense piss poor info will only get you more problems.

I was just going by accounts of other stops in Florida where people said the officer had foreknowledge of their license status and/or it came up with registration. Some are just as adamant as you.

It is not a permit in FLA, see above.

Thanks.

A MD tunnel cop would not be able to gain easy access to the FLA DOACS cwfl database on a normal traffic stop.

This one seems to have gotten it somewhere. Either that or we aren't getting the correct story. What's a tunnel cop?

 

[apvbguy]

..

1. the DOACS is the agency that issues and maintains the CWFL database, while the database of CWFL holders is available to law enforcement it is not attached to any DMV records and a cop making a traffic stop would have to access the DOACS system and most cops on the road do not have direct access to their database, they would have to have their dispatcher access the database.
2. whomever said that the cop in FLA knew he had a CWFL is not being truthful, I have never heard anyone who has had a similar experience.
3. a tunnel cop is a cop that works for a tunnel operating agency these are found in MD, VA, NY/NJ, PA/NJ and I believe boston
4. I don't think that the real story is being told

 

[AllanM]

Question on carrying in hostile states

Trouble, in fact, was the last thing on his mind a few weeks back as the Filippidises packed for Christmas and a family wedding in Woodridge, N.J., so he left the pistol locked in the safe. The state of Florida might have codified his Second Amendment rights, but he knew he’d be passing through states where recent U.S. Supreme Court decisions affirming the rights of individuals to keep and bear arms have been met by hostile legislatures and local officials.

“I know the laws and I know the rules,” Filippidis says. There are, after all, ways gun owners can travel legally with firearms through hostile states. “But I just think it’s a better idea to leave it home.”
Link Removed

I'm new here, and going to a 6 hour concealed carry class a week from today, so forgive me if this is adequately covered somewhere as I try to learn and search around. What are proper, legal ways to carry any firearm while traveling in states that don't honor permits from other states? Clearly based on the very useful concealed carry reciprocity map here, for all states where a permit is not honored the weapon must be somewhere other than concealed on the owner carrying / transporting the weapon. Must it be unloaded and stored in a lockable case in the trunk for example?

I'm not new to shooting, but I am new to concealed carry in the US so I have a lot to learn. I came from Africa 15 years ago, where the law was that we were to carry concealed at all times. Rifles and shotguns had to be in proper bags or cases. I'm sure my question will be answered when I get to the concealed carry class, but I'm already looking for anything I can. In the short time since I discovered and signed up with USA Carry I've already learned a lot, especially with all the recent articles from Col. Ben Findley and Jason Hanson in particular, among others.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I'm new here, and going to a 6 hour concealed carry class a week from today, so forgive me if this is adequately covered somewhere as I try to learn and search around. What are proper, legal ways to carry any firearm while traveling in states that don't honor permits from other states? Clearly based on the very useful concealed carry reciprocity map here, for all states where a permit is not honored the weapon must be somewhere other than concealed on the owner carrying / transporting the weapon. Must it be unloaded and stored in a lockable case in the trunk for example?

I'm not new to shooting, but I am new to concealed carry in the US so I have a lot to learn. I came from Africa 15 years ago, where the law was that we were to carry concealed at all times. Rifles and shotguns had to be in proper bags or cases. I'm sure my question will be answered when I get to the concealed carry class, but I'm already looking for anything I can. In the short time since I discovered and signed up with USA Carry I've already learned a lot, especially with all the recent articles from Col. Ben Findley and Jason Hanson in particular, among others.

When you are transporting a firearm through a state that does not recognize your permit, you have two choices. 1. You can transport the firearm according to the state law you are traveling through at the time. That can vary wildly from state to state from in the glove box loaded, in plain sight loaded, anywhere in the vehicle just not concealed on the person as long as the gun is unloaded, or unloaded and in a locked container, etc.

OR

2. You can transport the firearm through the state in accordance with 18 USC 926A which is known as the Firearm Owners' Protection Act. The firearm must be unloaded, and the firearm and ammunition must be separated from the occupants of the vehicle by a lock - an exterior compartment such as a trunk if the vehicle has one or a locked storage container if the vehicle does not have an exterior compartment. The glove box and/or center console do NOT count as locked containers.

18 U.S. Code § 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms | LII / Legal Information Institute

If the state that does not recognize your permit is your destination for any reason (visiting, sightseeing, etc), then you must follow the law of the state while you are there.

 

[GHF]

My read on how the MD Tunnel Gestapo got the information he got goes like this.

1. Florida license plate on vehicle.
2. When the driver pulled his driver's license out of his wallet, the cop saw the Florida FCWL, and recognized it (perhaps Officer Himmler has one). Mine is in my Alumua Wallet right behind my driver's license, and in front of my Armed and unarmed security guard licenses. I give mine with my driver's license, because I carry my cell phone in a holder that is based on a Miami Classic shoulder holster rig.

The officer's goal was an excuse to search the car to find something that would allow an arrest.

Pardon the sarcasm, but I get stopped every other year or so for the phone rig, and traffic stops are always a possibility. It was a county sheriff that stopped me one time that suggested I hand over the FCWL with the license, for no other reason than to calm a rookie officer about the rig, and of course break the ice.

 

[bootsdeal]

The moral of the story -- never, ever trust a cop or believe that they have our safety as their first priority. Most of them simply are out looking for ways to harass private citizens just for their own sick kind of fun. This fella's Florida license plate was all it took -- a bunch of yankee cops out to make it hard on a southerner (surely he's armed, after all he's from a southern state). I just got home to Texas after a road trip and 4 week stay in Connecticut visiting our daughter. In addition to Connecticut, I had to drive through a short stretch of Maryland and New York. Of course, no chl recognition in those 3 states. I don't mind admitting that I was more fearful of the cops than the criminals. I've never been in trouble with the law in my 74 years of life, and never even talked to a cop except for a very few speeding tickets in my 60+ years of driving, and I hope I never have to talk to another one. I don't trust them and surely will never rely on one for any kind of help or protection.

 

[FlatFrog]

Painting all cops with a pretty wide brush aren't we?

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

 

[wolf_fire]

The moral of the story -- never, ever trust a cop or believe that they have our safety as their first priority. Most of them simply are out looking for ways to harass private citizens just for their own sick kind of fun. This fella's Florida license plate was all it took -- a bunch of yankee cops out to make it hard on a southerner (surely he's armed, after all he's from a southern state). I just got home to Texas after a road trip and 4 week stay in Connecticut visiting our daughter. In addition to Connecticut, I had to drive through a short stretch of Maryland and New York. Of course, no chl recognition in those 3 states. I don't mind admitting that I was more fearful of the cops than the criminals. I've never been in trouble with the law in my 74 years of life, and never even talked to a cop except for a very few speeding tickets in my 60+ years of driving, and I hope I never have to talk to another one. I don't trust them and surely will never rely on one for any kind of help or protection.

Just a few details to point out:

The Civil War in America ended in 1865. It is now 2014.

The Mason-Dixon line separated PA from MD as a dividing line between the north and the south. MD was a Confederate state.

Therefore, the cop was not a "yankee" cop.

Also, I've yet to hear anyone in the north call anyone from the south a Johnny Reb, but have heard many a southerner refer to anyone that they think is not from the south a Yankee, unless of course that person decided to move to a southern state, then they referred to them as a "damned Yankee".

Not sure what any of this has to do with the situation that this thread is referring to, but figured I'd clear things up since you referred to the MD cop as a yankee.

You also mention that you are from TX. A little tidbit of information for you. Did you realize that PA (an actual Yankee state, since those things seem important to you) has more registered hunters than any other state. Yes, even including TX. Not all Yankees dislike guns or southerners. Get over your outdated stereotypes.

 

[Deanimator]

The moral of the story

The REAL moral of the story:
Do NOT talk to the police beyond that which is REQUIRED BY LAW.

Are all cops bad? No.

Are all cops good? DEFINITELY NOT.

How do you tell which are which before one does something bad? Is there an Android app for that?

Since I don't know that cop OR his motivations, ANY interaction with them is guided STRICTLY by law and the need to protect myself from them.

I treat cops like hitchhikers.

Not all hitchhikers are serial killers. SOME are.

Not all cops are corrupt, violent, racist sociopaths. SOME are.

Since I can't just look at a hitchhiker or a cop and tell whether they're on the up and up, I:

• don't pick up hitchhikers.
• don't interact with police when it can at all be avoided; nor do I volunteer information or speak to them more than is REQUIRED BY LAW.

And I ALWAYS have a voice recorder of some kind running when I'm armed, and am prepared to record any police interaction, whether armed or not.

 

[Deanimator]

The Mason-Dixon line separated PA from MD as a dividing line between the north and the south. MD was a Confederate state.

Damn that Yankee Stonewall Jackson! :biggrin:

Therefore, the cop was not a "yankee" cop.

You could argue that today's Maryland is probably more "Yankee" than Southern Ohio.

Of course I think "jackbooted thug" or "fascist" would be better adjectives to describe the cop in question...

 

[apvbguy]

Just a few details to point out:

The Civil War in America ended in 1865. It is now 2014.

the shooting may have stopped the animosity has lingered and recently because of the slant of the DC crowd the south is getting restless again

The Mason-Dixon line separated PA from MD as a dividing line between the north and the south. MD was a Confederate state. therefore, the cop was not a "yankee" cop.

you get an F for history. MD was a union state, it had many confederate sympathizers and the mason dixon line was drawn in the 1760's before the nation was born your claim that it showed the division between north and south is nonsense that

Also, I've yet to hear anyone in the north call anyone from the south a Johnny Reb, but have heard many a southerner refer to anyone that they think is not from the south a Yankee, unless of course that person decided to move to a southern state, then they referred to them as a "damned Yankee".

you never hear bubba, cracker, red neck etc??

You also mention that you are from TX. A little tidbit of information for you. Did you realize that PA (an actual Yankee state, since those things seem important to you) has more registered hunters than any other state. Yes, even including TX. Not all Yankees dislike guns or southerners. Get over your outdated stereotypes.

you should get better educated about things you are lecturing others on!

 

[Rhino]

......Not sure what any of this has to do with the situation that this thread is referring to, but figured I'd clear things up since you referred to the MD cop as a yankee.

He didn't. bootsdeal did, which is why wolf_fire pointed it out as being ridiculous. So, if anything, you should be agreeing with him on that point at least. Regardless of where lines were drawn or what side states were on, attempting to claim this particular incident as a north v. south thing is indeed ridiculous.

 

[wolf_fire]

the shooting may have stopped the animosity has lingered and recently because of the slant of the DC crowd the south is getting restless again


you get an F for history. MD was a union state, it had many confederate sympathizers and the mason dixon line was drawn in the 1760's before the nation was born your claim that it showed the division between north and south is nonsense that



you never hear bubba, cracker, red neck etc??



you should get better educated about things you are lecturing others on!

The animosity may still linger.. but to have it linger for someone from MD is indeed absurd. To have it be the reason why someone is afraid of a cop in MD is ridiculous. You should be afraid of a cop because you have no idea if you will get the badge-empowered one, or one that understands his job, not because you are in "Yankee" territory... or not. The only reason MD did not secede from the Union, was due to Gen Butler bringing 1000 Federal troops to Baltimore and declaring martial law. This put pressure on Gov Hicks to have a special session with the legislators and have a quick vote against secession even though Hicks was pro-slavery. The vote was 53-13 against seceding. You think the martial law had anything to do with it? There was division in the state, but they were very much "Confederate" in mindset. Most would agree that the Mason-Dixon line and the extenuation through the split of West Virginia and Virginia would be considered the boundaries between North and South in that war.

Yes, I've heard of "bubba, cracker, and red neck"... none of them suggests "Confederate" to me. The first two, generally are derogatory toward race, and the last one came from a union strike in West Virginia where the union strikers wore red bandanas in the early 1900's. So redneck would actually be a Yankee term. OH NO... the disgrace!!! If any of those terms screams "Confederate" to you, I'm at a loss.