Gun clearing drills

[grmerrill]

I have seen a lot of gun clearing drills on the Web. tap...rack...bang is very useful and easy. I have seen others that handle stove pipes and double feeds. How do you teach someone to handle or detect a squib load or a barrel obstruction? On the range is a no brainer but what do you teach purple to do under stress?

 

[ProShooter]

Under a rapid fire/stress situation, the only clue may be the sound of the shot or the lack of muzzle rise/recoil. Even then, you will probably miss it if you are in a SHTF situation.

I would add that in a SHTF sit, you should be moving to cover/concealment. If you have a true barrel obstruction and there's no bulge in the barrel, you may try to find something to push it out....or switch to your NY reload.

 

[grmerrill]

Under a rapid fire/stress situation, the only clue may be the sound of the shot or the lack of muzzle rise/recoil. Even then, you will probably miss it if you are in a SHTF situation.

I would add that in a SHTF sit, you should be moving to cover/concealment. If you have a true barrel obstruction and there's no bulge in the barrel, you may try to find something to push it out....or switch to your NY reload.

Is it taught to watch for a squib load? Or is it rare enough that it isn't covered. It seems like the typical training in reaction to a squib would be a Tap.. Rack.... More bang than you wanted.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Squib round...I have never had one. Could you answer me this so I understand better.

Do squib rounds
Feel different?
Sound different?
Cycle the pistol completely? (or cause a double feed/stovepipe/ftf/fte normally)
If it does't cycle the pistol, how can you tell it was a squib and not another failure? (Is that were the bulge comes into play?)

Like GRM said...if its a very minute change in the feel, would you even notice it in a SHTF moment before your handgun possibly explodes in your hand?

How do you even fix it when its not a SHTF moment? Simply remove barrel and push a soft rod through?

I have read that the HK USP is one pistol that can be fired with an obstructed barrel. Not saying its a good idea...but if SHTF and that's all you have left to defend your life, pulling the trigger might be the only thing possible.

I like proshooters advice. I carry a p238 backup, so if some reason I have a catastrophic failure on my primary, I have a secondary.

 

[grmerrill]

Squib round...I have never had one. Could you answer me this so I understand better.

Do squib rounds
Feel different?
Sound different?
Cycle the pistol completely? (or cause a double feed/stovepipe/ftf/fte normally)
If it does't cycle the pistol, how can you tell it was a squib and not another failure? (Is that were the bulge comes into play?)

Like GRM said...if its a very minute change in the feel, would you even notice it in a SHTF moment before your handgun possibly explodes in your hand?

How do you even fix it when its not a SHTF moment? Simply remove barrel and push a soft rod through?

A squib round is when no powder is in the round. It is a failure during the manufacturing process. It is very rare and as far as I know the only way to detect it is to weigh every round (which is why some handloaders do so). When a squib load goes off there is very little recoil, but the primer has enough force to drive the round part way down the barrel and the slide will not cycle.

I have never had a squib yet... knock on wood, crossing fingers... but i did have someone load a magazine for me and somehow a 9mm round made it into my 40. It did fire, and the smaller round left the barrel, but as soon as i felt the light recoil (the heavier slide of my 40 absorbed the energy) and the slide didn't cycle I made the gun safe and tore it apart. The too small brass in teh chamber gave away my problem, but had it been a squib load nothing short of looking down the barrel would have identified the problem.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Squib round...I have never had one. Could you answer me this so I understand better.

Do squib rounds
Feel different?
Sound different?
Cycle the pistol completely? (or cause a double feed/stovepipe/ftf/fte normally)
If it does't cycle the pistol, how can you tell it was a squib and not another failure? (Is that were the bulge comes into play?)

Like GRM said...if its a very minute change in the feel, would you even notice it in a SHTF moment before your handgun possibly explodes in your hand?

How do you even fix it when its not a SHTF moment? Simply remove barrel and push a soft rod through?

A squib round is when no powder is in the round. It is a failure during the manufacturing process. It is very rare and as far as I know the only way to detect it is to weigh every round (which is why some handloaders do so). When a squib load goes off there is very little recoil, but the primer has enough force to drive the round part way down the barrel and the slide will not cycle.

I have never had a squib yet... knock on wood, crossing fingers... but i did have someone load a magazine for me and somehow a 9mm round made it into my 40. It did fire, and the smaller round left the barrel, but as soon as i felt the light recoil (the heavier slide of my 40 absorbed the energy) and the slide didn't cycle I made the gun safe and tore it apart. The too small brass in teh chamber gave away my problem, but had it been a squib load nothing short of looking down the barrel would have identified the problem.

I didn't know the primer had that much force. I have heard of them but have not experienced one either. So the procedure is, Tap rack and hope it doesn't explode? If you don't carry a backup, what other option do you have when seconds count? Get to cover, drop the mag, rack rack, look down barrel? Seems wrong and dangerous. Possibly lock slide back, shove a stick in the front and see if it appears on the other side of the barrel? Since it seems like a very rare occurrence, I probably don't need to carry around a padded stick

If it happens during training, and you safety the gun, take it home, tear it down, how hard is it usually to un-jam a barrel obstruction? Usually need a hammer to tap the stick? Or easier than that?

 

[grmerrill]

Here is an example of what can happen if you don't detect a squib load. Luckily it wasn't so bad.

The Gun Zone -- Stupidity on the Range

 

[Firefighterchen]

im going to try and get a picture of a friends ar15 that he believes either had an undetected squib round or a hunting 5.56 (higher pressure) that caused his ar to explode in his hands. Hopefully he will be able to send it to me by tomorrow and give me permission to post the picture.

That was a freaky call since he called me right after the incident, for advice if his symptoms and swelling were worthy of a drive to the hospital. What' amazing is the speed at which he sent high definition pictures to me so i could see the damage and make a call. Technology is awesome.

 

[MONTANA]

Gun clearing drills? If you guys would stick to Glocks, you would not need drills or dremel tools to clear your guns. A simple drop the mag and rack the slide would do.

So it is impossible to have a squib load with a Glock? Huh? And if not, I believe you would definitely want to clear your weapon before proceeding.