Good Citizens of New York

[CRAZYISH]

I'm a newbie to the pistol world. Permit is still in the works, although, it's been almost a year. Can't get an answer to this question. Bought and paid in full for my pistol in 3/12, application into sherrif 4/12. Have my interview with the judge on 2/28/13. LGS says he may not be able to allow me to have the mags for my pistol. They are 10 round. Anyone able to she'd some insight would be great. In my opinion, I bought and paid for ownership of this pistol and mags in 3/12, it's mine and ill load it with 7 if I have to, but no one makes a 7 round mag for it... So I get a useless pistol in 3 weeks? WTF?

newbie62-
This is not legal advice, but let me at least take a stab at some of your questions -

First off, NY government sites have been posting at lot of info on the new law, such as here - Link Removed

What troubles me right out of the gate is the year-long wait you mention, partly because:

PL 400.4-A *"Except upon written notice to the applicant specifically stating the reasons for any delay, in each case the licensing officer shall act upon any application for a license pursuant to this section within six months of the date of presentment of such an application to the appropriate authority. Such delay may only be for good cause and with respect to the applicant."
If it takes longer than six months, they are technically obligated to provide you with the reasons for the delay in writing. But it is still NY, so you can ask but don't get your hopes up.

Although you have "bought and paid in full", any reputable dealer will refund your money if the state doesn't grant your permit.

Here's where it gets interesting...

"Paid in full" may not allow you to take possession of the weapon til the permit is granted, but in NY you can purchase ammo and legal magazines without a permit, and 10 round mags can be legally purchased til the middle of April. If it were me, I would argue that you already own the mags. As such, you can take delivery of them after the 10 round ban takes place. This is also implied in the FAQs, where they mention that a dealer can still deliver an assault weapon to a buyer after the ban took place if the purchase took place before the ban ( and in the case of an assault weapon, you would then have a year to register it).
I would straighten this out with the dealer sooner than later. You bought the weapon and the mags. Taking delivery after the ban should not be an issue.

And finally, allow me to stick my neck WAAAAYY out by saying -

Don't lose too much sleep over the ban, at least as it applies to your entry into handgun ownership. Your pistol is not an assault weapon (since it would already have been banned in NY even before the SAFE act).
And I will eat my car

2A

LoL u might have to Eat that Car . ;-)
As huomo(cuomo) doesn't give up to easy

 

[gunnerbob]

Aaaahhh beautiful New York...
So where is my ten grand a year in taxes going...?

Well, at least there's ONE good thing...all that money they make selling lottery tickets goes RIGHT to education.
That's why we're so smart about everything else.

To enforcing those Unconstitional laws you have...

 

[2Awarrior]

LoL u might have to Eat that Car . ;-)
As huomo(cuomo) doesn't give up to easy

Yeah this could be a promise I regret.
You'd think I'd learn...I've already downed 4 hats and 3 pair of underwear over the years...

 

[BC1]

To enforcing those Unconstitional laws you have...

New state motto... "the welfare state." Put it on our license plates.

 

[2Awarrior]

Yeah this could be a promise I regret.
You'd think I'd learn...I've already downed 4 hats and 3 pair of underwear over the years...

Fortunately, this is my car.

Link Removed

And frankly, if we don't get this god-awful SAFE Act repealed, the rest of the country is going to insist ALL New yorkers drive a "Weenie Mobile".

 

[Sir Diealotz]

Yeah this could be a promise I regret.
You'd think I'd learn...I've already downed 4 hats and 3 pair of underwear over the years...

Fortunately, this is my car.

Link Removed

And frankly, if we don't get this god-awful SAFE Act repealed, the rest of the country is going to insist ALL New yorkers drive a "Weenie Mobile".

Now that's FUNNY! Both quotes

So glad I don't live in NY. If so, I'd cut my loses and move...

 

[CRAZYISH]

Yeah this could be a promise I regret.
You'd think I'd learn...I've already downed 4 hats and 3 pair of underwear over the years...

Fortunately, this is my car.

Link Removed

And frankly, if we don't get this god-awful SAFE Act repealed, the rest of the country is going to insist ALL New yorkers drive a "Weenie Mobile".

Now that's FUNNY! Both quotes

So glad I don't live in NY. If so, I'd cut my loses and move...

Why should we run and move. This is our state and we need to voice, fight and show them who is the BoSS

 

[BluesStringer]

Those that tell us to vote with our feet aren't being realistic. Ties to NY include career, salary, real-estate and family. It isn't so easy to just leave.

Leaving what you know, whether home, a job, your friends, whatever, is rarely an easy decision to make. However, people do it daily by the thousands.

And losing hundreds of thousands in real estate values just to move to a more gun-friendly state is a rediculous concept.

Why would anyone have to lose the real estate values? You already said you're looking at buying property in NC while still being based in NY. Why is it so ridiculous a concept to do it the other way around and keep your income properties in NY? Not to mention that most states south of the Mason-Dixon line have property values and costs of living WAY below that of NY, and you'd probably come out ahead or break even if you did liquidate in NY before leaving.

Regardless of your answers to those couple of questions though, I would submit that the suggestion is not "just"about moving to a gun-friendly state. The meme of "vote with your feet" was mentioned in an article that I found on The Truth About Guns, so it seems reasonable to me that their focus would be on guns and related laws, but it's not my singular focus when talking about it, or suggesting it to you a day or two ago. High taxes is anti-freedom. State government that runs up debt that they can never catch up with is anti-freedom. Exorbitant licensing fees such as business, vehicle registration, construction permits, whatever, stifle the freedom to prosper and grow economically. I don't claim to know details of NY's laws in these regards, but I knew a lot about CA's before leaving that anti-freedom cesspool 21 years ago, and though it's hard to imagine which state is more leftist/socialist, what does it matter? They're both highly leftist/socialist, so I think my experience is relevant in considering what life is probably like in NY.

And where will we go. I'm looking at large tracts of land in Western NC. But I see it's illegal to carry in a restaurant.

Man, you fixate on some weird stuff, BC. It always comes down to defending laws which control the exercising of your rights, whether we're talking about NY or NC. That said, I looked, and you're mistaken that there's a carry restriction in restaurants, unless the restaurant serves alcohol. Not that it makes much difference to me, but if you're going to juggle the importance of one state's carry restrictions over another, let's at least state it accurately. But recognize that the simple requirement for a permission slip to exercise your "rights" is, in and of itself, an infringement on your rights. Bragging about how NY infringes on rights in a more acceptable way than any other state does seems a weird fixation to me.

So you don't like being restricted to non-alcohol-serving restaurants. OK, maybe NC ain't the best choice. Alabama doesn't have that restriction. Lots of states don't. Still, in the South it matters a lot less, because the only restaurants you're likely to be going to don't serve alcohol anyway. You know, Shoney's, Cracker Barrel, Waffle House or the Busy Bee Cafe down on the corner of the small towns dotting the maps of every southern state. (I say that somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but it's also mostly true) And you will definitely encounter dry counties down here too, where no alcohol can be bought, sold or served by any store or restaurant. "Freedoms" are controlled in every state, BC, and I hardly think NY's restrictions are "better" than in most other states.

So what do I do leave it in the car? Another Luby's shooting? I'm accustomed to carrying that gun in NY without such restrictions .

You're also accustomed to paying exorbitant property taxes and highly-inflated real estate prices. Your vehicle registration fees are likely at least twice that of mine. It was much more than twice as expensive to register our cars in CA than it is here. My '76 Ford Econoline van cost $378 the last time I registered it in CA. It cost $62 bucks the first time I registered it here. My '91 Harley cost $243 in CA. It cost $35 bucks here. The last house we rented in CA cost $1250 a month. We bought a house down here within two months of arriving on an acre of property, about 300 more sq. ft., and the mortgage was only $540 per month.

Regardless, Luby's in TX doesn't serve alcohol, so in NC you wouldn't be faced with a situation like that. Saying you're "accustomed" to the level of control foisted upon the free exercise of your rights, is no different than saying that your overseer has gone to great lengths to make the chains of your enslavement as comfortable as possible. The sad truth is, that is true. Free your mind, and the rest will follow.....

Blues

 

[One78Shovel]

Leaving what you know, whether home, a job, your friends, whatever, is rarely an easy decision to make. However, people do it daily by the thousands.



Why would anyone have to lose the real estate values? You already said you're looking at buying property in NC while still being based in NY. Why is it so ridiculous a concept to do it the other way around and keep your income properties in NY? Not to mention that most states south of the Mason-Dixon line have property values and costs of living WAY below that of NY, and you'd probably come out ahead or break even if you did liquidate in NY before leaving.

Regardless of your answers to those couple of questions though, I would submit that the suggestion is not "just"about moving to a gun-friendly state. The meme of "vote with your feet" was mentioned in an article that I found on The Truth About Guns, so it seems reasonable to me that their focus would be on guns and related laws, but it's not my singular focus when talking about it, or suggesting it to you a day or two ago. High taxes is anti-freedom. State government that runs up debt that they can never catch up with is anti-freedom. Exorbitant licensing fees such as business, vehicle registration, construction permits, whatever, stifle the freedom to prosper and grow economically. I don't claim to know details of NY's laws in these regards, but I knew a lot about CA's before leaving that anti-freedom cesspool 21 years ago, and though it's hard to imagine which state is more leftist/socialist, what does it matter? They're both highly leftist/socialist, so I think my experience is relevant in considering what life is probably like in NY.



Man, you fixate on some weird stuff, BC. It always comes down to defending laws which control the exercising of your rights, whether we're talking about NY or NC. That said, I looked, and you're mistaken that there's a carry restriction in restaurants, unless the restaurant serves alcohol. Not that it makes much difference to me, but if you're going to juggle the importance of one state's carry restrictions over another, let's at least state it accurately. But recognize that the simple requirement for a permission slip to exercise your "rights" is, in and of itself, an infringement on your rights. Bragging about how NY infringes on rights in a more acceptable way than any other state does seems a weird fixation to me.

So you don't like being restricted to non-alcohol-serving restaurants. OK, maybe NC ain't the best choice. Alabama doesn't have that restriction. Lots of states don't. Still, in the South it matters a lot less, because the only restaurants you're likely to be going to don't serve alcohol anyway. You know, Shoney's, Cracker Barrel, Waffle House or the Busy Bee Cafe down on the corner of the small towns dotting the maps of every southern state. (I say that somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but it's also mostly true) And you will definitely encounter dry counties down here too, where no alcohol can be bought, sold or served by any store or restaurant. "Freedoms" are controlled in every state, BC, and I hardly think NY's restrictions are "better" than in most other states.



You're also accustomed to paying exorbitant property taxes and highly-inflated real estate prices. Your vehicle registration fees are likely at least twice that of mine. It was much more than twice as expensive to register our cars in CA than it is here. My '76 Ford Econoline van cost $378 the last time I registered it in CA. It cost $62 bucks the first time I registered it here. My '91 Harley cost $243 in CA. It cost $35 bucks here. The last house we rented in CA cost $1250 a month. We bought a house down here within two months of arriving on an acre of property, about 300 more sq. ft., and the mortgage was only $540 per month.

Regardless, Luby's in TX doesn't serve alcohol, so in NC you wouldn't be faced with a situation like that. Saying you're "accustomed" to the level of control foisted upon the free exercise of your rights, is no different than saying that your overseer has gone to great lengths to make the chains of your enslavement as comfortable as possible. The sad truth is, that is true. Free your mind, and the rest will follow.....

Blues

I agree with most of your comments as I can attest directly to the differences in southern culture versus that of East/West Oppressed States. One reason is I left the exact location you are at, based on your profile, Madison Al in 1979. I grew up in Huntsville and we moved out to Madison when I was 9th grade.

In some Southern states like TN per say, they have no state tax but try to get revenue via other sources. One example is an Education Wheel Tax, etc if they still have it.

Living in the South has advantages but I can identify with BC about pulling up roots and moving on. A little harder for some depending on where they are in their carrers and the promise of continued employment so as to provide for family.

I'm down with both your views.

-178S

 

[Nightmare45]

Anyone entering my property in violation of my property rights and the constitution will be going to the hospital at a minimum. The morgue has a very poor survival rate.

 

[Sir Diealotz]

Yeah this could be a promise I regret.
You'd think I'd learn...I've already downed 4 hats and 3 pair of underwear over the years...

Fortunately, this is my car.

Link Removed

And frankly, if we don't get this god-awful SAFE Act repealed, the rest of the country is going to insist ALL New yorkers drive a "Weenie Mobile".

Now that's FUNNY! Both quotes

So glad I don't live in NY. If so, I'd cut my loses and move...

Why should we run and move. This is our state and we need to voice, fight and show them who is the BoSS

I does not equal we
I would chose to move, the boat is sinking, time to Jump ship

 

[Newbie62]

2Awarrior- thanks for the advise and pep talk. The p.l. You referred to is kind of a dicey issue. A guy at the club I'm a member of pushed his "6 month" issue and got his reply.....declined. He's approx 2 years and over 2 grand in the legal battle and who knows where it goes from here. His fault, in my opinion, he got a bit pushy with his presentation and has some mention of temperament in his declined letter. Thought it best to just ride the wave out on this one. Mags for most anything are near impossible to find anywhere. If you have a suggestion for a 40/357 sig S&W M&P full size, I'm all ears.
The LGS owner told me in mid jan that the mags may not be possible, been looking for my own since.
Thanks again.

 

[nogods]

Anyone entering my property in violation of my property rights and the constitution will be going to the hospital at a minimum. The morgue has a very poor survival rate.

Pretty big talk...does that include a 6-year old child who wanders onto your property chasing a butter fly? A delivery person at the wrong address?

If you ever do shoot someone you better be 100% correct because a good DA will be all over your computer records and will find your post.

Now imagine your quote on a big white board in front of the jury during closing arguments in which they have to decide whether or not you acted in self defense or are guilty of criminally negligent homicide or some other lesser crime.

 

[2Awarrior]

2Awarrior- thanks for the advise and pep talk. The p.l. You referred to is kind of a dicey issue. A guy at the club I'm a member of pushed his "6 month" issue and got his reply.....declined. He's approx 2 years and over 2 grand in the legal battle and who knows where it goes from here. His fault, in my opinion, he got a bit pushy with his presentation and has some mention of temperament in his declined letter. Thought it best to just ride the wave out on this one.

Yow. I admit I would never have thought to warn someone not to get pushy with the county clerk or sheriff. You can't get pushy with the DMV, for cryin out loud.
Based on the law, I do still disagree with the LGS owner about the mags. It's cut and dry.

If I may ask, judging by the resistance you're getting all around, can I assume you're in one of the southern counties? Westchester, Rockland, Nassau, Suffolk? They are notoriously tough.

 

[Newbie62]

Schenectady county

 

[gunnerbob]

Anyone entering my property in violation of my property rights and the constitution will be going to the hospital at a minimum. The morgue has a very poor survival rate.

Pretty big talk...does that include a 6-year old child who wanders onto your property chasing a butter fly? A delivery person at the wrong address?

If you ever do shoot someone you better be 100% correct because a good DA will be all over your computer records and will find your post.

Now imagine your quote on a big white board in front of the jury during closing arguments in which they have to decide whether or not you acted in self defense or are guilty of criminally negligent homicide or some other lesser crime.

nogods, while you raise a good point about a DA using comments on such places as an internet forum to nail Nightmare to the wall... as I read his comments I see he is cleary saying NOT that he'll shoot anyone simply walking onto his property but, IF they do in fact violate HIS property/Constitutional RIGHTS... such as not leaving when requested or any other manner of ILLEGAL activity being conducted on his land. Nightmare would be within his rights to fire upon someone if they refuse to leave his property and he feels he is in immediate danger b/c of it. Everything is situtation dependent but I think you read his statement with the intention of picking it apart b/c he's perhaps a little harsh for your liking.

What say you?

 

[2Awarrior]

Schenectady county

Thanks. I would have never expected any trouble up in that area. Guess the fact that they're swamped really is dragging things out. Good luck, let us know how you make out.

 

[JohnD13]

Thanks. I would have never expected any trouble up in that area. Guess the fact that they're swamped really is dragging things out. Good luck, let us know how you make out.

Schenectady county has been tough to deal with for a long time, and at one time the judge would only allow you 1 pistol on your license. Hopefully that has changed, but a 2 year wait is still amazing, even in NY. Rensselaer county used to have them back to you in 30 days, but that was 30 years ago. Now I'm told it's not quite 6 months. You have a lot of patience Newbie.

 

[2Awarrior]

Schenectady county has been tough to deal with for a long time, and at one time the judge would only allow you 1 pistol on your license. Hopefully that has changed, but a 2 year wait is still amazing, even in NY. Rensselaer county used to have them back to you in 30 days, but that was 30 years ago. Now I'm told it's not quite 6 months. You have a lot of patience Newbie.

See, that's the kind of thing that concerns me, personally, every bit as much as the AWB debacle. All the counties of NYS, and individual cities in some cases, are sewn together like a quilt made of toilet paper. One judge decides you can only have a single pistol on your permit. Another just doesn't give them out at all. NY City determines that no one is in sufficient peril to be allowed to protect themselves.
I'd give (almost) anything if NY could get into the twenty-first century (or the twentieth, for that matter) on this issue. And I feel any state that is "may issue" as we are needs to get their act together. You have to jump through all these hoops to get your permit, but in "may issue" states, there's no promise at the end of the process. That is wrong.

 

[BC1]

Leaving what you know, whether home, a job, your friends, whatever, is rarely an easy decision to make. However, people do it daily by the thousands.



Why would anyone have to lose the real estate values? You already said you're looking at buying property in NC while still being based in NY. Why is it so ridiculous a concept to do it the other way around and keep your income properties in NY? Not to mention that most states south of the Mason-Dixon line have property values and costs of living WAY below that of NY, and you'd probably come out ahead or break even if you did liquidate in NY before leaving.

Regardless of your answers to those couple of questions though, I would submit that the suggestion is not "just"about moving to a gun-friendly state. The meme of "vote with your feet" was mentioned in an article that I found on The Truth About Guns, so it seems reasonable to me that their focus would be on guns and related laws, but it's not my singular focus when talking about it, or suggesting it to you a day or two ago. High taxes is anti-freedom. State government that runs up debt that they can never catch up with is anti-freedom. Exorbitant licensing fees such as business, vehicle registration, construction permits, whatever, stifle the freedom to prosper and grow economically. I don't claim to know details of NY's laws in these regards, but I knew a lot about CA's before leaving that anti-freedom cesspool 21 years ago, and though it's hard to imagine which state is more leftist/socialist, what does it matter? They're both highly leftist/socialist, so I think my experience is relevant in considering what life is probably like in NY.



Man, you fixate on some weird stuff, BC. It always comes down to defending laws which control the exercising of your rights, whether we're talking about NY or NC. That said, I looked, and you're mistaken that there's a carry restriction in restaurants, unless the restaurant serves alcohol. Not that it makes much difference to me, but if you're going to juggle the importance of one state's carry restrictions over another, let's at least state it accurately. But recognize that the simple requirement for a permission slip to exercise your "rights" is, in and of itself, an infringement on your rights. Bragging about how NY infringes on rights in a more acceptable way than any other state does seems a weird fixation to me.

So you don't like being restricted to non-alcohol-serving restaurants. OK, maybe NC ain't the best choice. Alabama doesn't have that restriction. Lots of states don't. Still, in the South it matters a lot less, because the only restaurants you're likely to be going to don't serve alcohol anyway. You know, Shoney's, Cracker Barrel, Waffle House or the Busy Bee Cafe down on the corner of the small towns dotting the maps of every southern state. (I say that somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but it's also mostly true) And you will definitely encounter dry counties down here too, where no alcohol can be bought, sold or served by any store or restaurant. "Freedoms" are controlled in every state, BC, and I hardly think NY's restrictions are "better" than in most other states.



You're also accustomed to paying exorbitant property taxes and highly-inflated real estate prices. Your vehicle registration fees are likely at least twice that of mine. It was much more than twice as expensive to register our cars in CA than it is here. My '76 Ford Econoline van cost $378 the last time I registered it in CA. It cost $62 bucks the first time I registered it here. My '91 Harley cost $243 in CA. It cost $35 bucks here. The last house we rented in CA cost $1250 a month. We bought a house down here within two months of arriving on an acre of property, about 300 more sq. ft., and the mortgage was only $540 per month.

Regardless, Luby's in TX doesn't serve alcohol, so in NC you wouldn't be faced with a situation like that. Saying you're "accustomed" to the level of control foisted upon the free exercise of your rights, is no different than saying that your overseer has gone to great lengths to make the chains of your enslavement as comfortable as possible. The sad truth is, that is true. Free your mind, and the rest will follow.....

Blues

I hear ya. But I can't manage properties from 1,300 miles away. I do the work and pick the tenants myself to save money. Property management companies cost way too much. And although taxes are high so are rents and other business revenue. Although I'm looking for land in NC the cost of building a post and beam lodge has increased even though real estate values decreased. Material prices have increased on everything from raw materials (wood/logs) to electrical, plumbing, etc. So I sell low in NY and build high in NC.