God & the Bible, squaring belief with reality

[NotTwoShure]

You have peompted me to tell my own "supernataural" story in support of your revealing yours. I drive tractor trailer. Late one night traveling through Pa. one a long stretch of four lane under construction I was presented the proof of the reality of God. I had struggled with doubts of the truth of the Bible. This section of road had two lanes closed off and north/south traffic put together on the other two lanes. there were no barriers betweent just the yellow line. I and another driver were headed south and a tractor trailer was aproaching going north when as he aproached, he suddenly crossed the yellow line. I had only time to cry out to God/Jesus as his drivers side parking light dissapeared over my hood, and everything went black and suddenly he was going away in my rearview mirror. I thought it was only my tired perception of a near headon collision, untill the driver behind me called on the CB to ask if I was OK. He was addament that we had collided. He insisted over and over that the other truck went right through half of my truck. He was only a couple hundred feet behind me. The other driver called and apologized because he dropped his lit cigerette in his lap and never even saw me untill he too looked back in his mirror. God has our days numbered. It aint over till He says it is over. I'm living proof.

Lots of great testimonies. I too have a few; the last was August 2011, in the V.A. hospital, asked Him for help and was cured of a very bad issue. Life has been so much better with all of my senses greatly attuned to living. The old tapes sometimes come up but The Word is there for me. This is only one of my testimonies. Thanks Brothers and Sisters.:happy:

 

[NotTwoShure]

Ok so you think god saved you from a traffic accident? This is the same god who lets people rape and kill children? The same god who let the Germans kill millions? The same god who has allowed the mass killing of peoples all over the world? The same god who allows churches to collect monies form people who starve because the church says they must give to god? The god who allowed the people who are charged with spreading his work IE priests to molest children repeatedly then allows the church to cover it up? This god saved YOU from a traffic accident? You sir must be a very important person in this world.. Of course as a OTR driver of my own trucks for many years and spending many nights hammer down and lights blazing maybe your just a good driver and avoided the accident as most all good drivers do? I drove 1.28 million accident free miles no god needed.

God did not commit anything, He is not the author of evil, evil occurs as a result of man not following His LAWS and rejecting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Evil occurs as a result of man free will. Religion is man’s way to God, Christ is God’s way to man. Simple.

 

[NotTwoShure]

Wow! 38 pages. It took me hours to read it all. Thanks to Ringo for all the information, it has been a huge spiritual uplift to me. To answer the original post. The Bible squares itself with reality. We live in a fallen and sinful world. Mankind in it's own strength in this sinful condition of life can never square up. The only hope for all is given in scriptures, Jesus Christ and the forgiveness He gives with our acceptance of Him as Lord and savior. Those who refuse any Lordship over them have refused Christ, and will debate and argue endlessly.There is none so blind as those that refuse to see. I am glad I stopped by here. Now I will "dust my heels" Blessings all Please pardon the spelling errors here and my previous post. I flunked typing ing highschool

I have struggled with spelling and grammar for years even though my career and schooling demanded that I spell correctly. I use Office Word 2010 to correct my mistakes, cut and paste and try to save face. In the old days, I carried a pocket dictionary, then an electronic spell check now this is my crutch. But, I am too pretty good of a speller. :flirt:

 

[maine04619]

Blaming God for man's inhumanity to man is pretty weak.

But praising him for man's good deeds and fortunate events is fine though right?

 

[Mountain man]

Ok so you think god saved you from a traffic accident? This is the same god who lets people rape and kill children? The same god who let the Germans kill millions? The same god who has allowed the mass killing of peoples all over the world? The same god who allows churches to collect monies form people who starve because the church says they must give to god? The god who allowed the people who are charged with spreading his work IE priests to molest children repeatedly then allows the church to cover it up? This god saved YOU from a traffic accident? You sir must be a very important person in this world.. Of course as a OTR driver of my own trucks for many years and spending many nights hammer down and lights blazing maybe your just a good driver and avoided the accident as most all good drivers do? I drove 1.28 million accident free miles no god needed.

What I think and the Bible tells me is that God has offered His son to pay the price for sin and evil. The hitlers and pedophiles and murderers are acting out in evil, having rejected God. Evil is, God offers salvation through Jesus Christ.. By your statement I have to ask If The murderers, child molesters and pedophiles all reject God are you going to reject Him because they do?

 

[maine04619]

Maine: Have you ever considered that you are also a very important person to God? Maybe that is why you were able to drive all those accident free miles. All the events you are blaming God for were performed by MEN, not God. There again, free will enters the picture and God allows men to their perversions. Yes, He could stop all of it in the blink of an eye but then you would no longer have free will. You would be a robot and only allowed to do what God would dictate. God has given us all the opportunity to worship and love Him. He has, in return, promised Paradise to us at the end of our time here on earth for doing that. He knows that there will be many who will fall by the wayside but he can't interfere without taking away our free will. It is a simple decision, where would you care to reside for eternity? Our time on earth is said to be "as a wisp of smoke." Using that analogy, that isn't long at all. Eternity, however, will continue for........eternity, a never ending period of time. Those who commit the crimes and perversions you are blaming God for will never see His face or be in His presence. That, in itself, will be a horrible punishment but to add being in the burning lake of fire with Satan and his angels will add even more anguish. You may not believe that but that is your choice. I hope that one day you will be able

Ok I just do not get it either god created ALL or he did not. IF you are going to believe the bible then god IS responsible for EVERYTHING that is and that occurs. So IF you believe in free will and that is the way god works then he does not SAVE anybody they do it themselves with free will just a evil doers do! So PICK ONE either he screws with our lives or he does not! I myself will never be able to believe as I have a logical mind that sees what is. Faith is the ignorance of all facts. You can not have both. Either you have faith or you go with this reality and what you can touch, see smell, and taste.

 

[Oldgrunt]

In a round about way, you are right. God has created man with a mind that allows him to choose between good and evil. He offers heaven to those who choose to love and worship Him. If, at some time in your life, you choose not to follow God and live in rebellion against Him, YOU have made your choice, while at the same time knowing the consequences for your decision. YOU will have made the selection all by yourself. No, God does not screw with our lives, we all make a mess all on our own. You may, indeed, have a logical mind but your intelligence compared to that of God is like comparing an earthworm to man. No comparison, is there? You are deluding yourself if you try to compare your intelligence to God. Contrary to your opinion, faith is not the ignorance of all facts, it is acquired through knowledge and belief of the facts. You know, that dusty old book called the Bible holds all the facts needed for faith. If you try to approach it through your own perceived wisdom, you won't understand it. God says you have to approach it as a little child and believing. That may be why some people have a hard time with it, they feel too intelligent to make that approach. Now that is reality.

 

[fuhr52]

But praising him for man's good deeds and fortunate events is fine though right?

Yes it is. leasantry:

 

[msimmons]

What I think and the Bible tells me is that God has offered His son to pay the price for sin and evil. The hitlers and pedophiles and murderers are acting out in evil, having rejected God. Evil is, God offers salvation through Jesus Christ.. By your statement I have to ask If The murderers, child molesters and pedophiles all reject God are you going to reject Him because they do?

If god is omniscient and omnipotent then all this would have been known before, and even if you say man is with "free will" that still implies that god knowingly created each person with a predetermined path. So if god "knew" that when he sprouted hitler into existence that he would in fact lead millions to their death...just pointing out the contradictions.

 

[tcox4freedom]

If god is omniscient and omnipotent then all this would have been known before, and even if you say man is with "free will" that still implies that god knowingly created each person with a predetermined path. So if god "knew" that when he sprouted hitler into existence that he would in fact lead millions to their death...just pointing out the contradictions.

The problem with unbelievers is that they really don't understand death. For a believer in the MESSIAH, death is nothing more than the doorway through which one enters into the eternal presence of God.

-

 

[Ringo]

The problem with unbelievers is that they really don't understand death. For a believer in the MESSIAH, death is nothing more than the doorway through which one enters into the eternal presence of God.

-

Unbelievers don't understand anything about the Bible and they don't want to understand. Unbelievers thrive by being a parasite on Christianity. They have no religion of their own, so the sole purpose of their existence revolves around attacking the validity of the Holy Bible. Unbelievers are only able to issue negative commentary. Unbelievers operate much like chickens, as long as they have plenty of food, they will get along with each other. You deprive them of this requirement, and they will peck each other to death and turn into cannibals. If we don't feed them they will intellectually starve, and seek food elsewhere.

 

[Mountain man]

If god is omniscient and omnipotent then all this would have been known before, and even if you say man is with "free will" that still implies that god knowingly created each person with a predetermined path. So if god "knew" that when he sprouted hitler into existence that he would in fact lead millions to their death...just pointing out the contradictions.

Not really a contradiction as much as evidence of a loving God who knowing many will reject, still allows free will and the opportunity for all to be saved. I can't quote chapter and verse, but I have read in the Bible that God wants no one to perish, but wants all to be saved, He has done all He can without taking away free will to provide salvation. You know that old saying, if you love someone set them free, if they return to you, they are yours, if not, they never were. The angels were made without that free will. God gave mankind more than the angels. Freewill is at the core of our being. He wants mankind to turn to Him, He won't force us. He knows many will reject Him, yet He cannot take away our freewill. The choice is yours, but choose wisely.Our path is up to us. He knows our makeup and attitude, and knows our mind, yet He loves us enough to let us choose.

 

[Ringo]

The angels were made without that free will. God gave mankind more than the angels. I can't quote chapter and verse, but I have read in the Bible that God wants no one to perish

Knowing that 1/3 of the angels "chose" to rebel against God along with Lucifer and be cast out of Heaven, it's fair to say that angels do have "free will". And knowing that man was created "lower than the angels", man having more is questionable. leasantry:

John 3:16..For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

2 Peter 3:9.. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

 

[maine04619]

You may, indeed, have a logical mind but your intelligence compared to that of God is like comparing an earthworm to man. No comparison, is there? You are deluding yourself if you try to compare your intelligence to God. Contrary to your opinion, faith is not the ignorance of all facts, it is acquired through knowledge and belief of the facts.

I would not ever compare the intelligence of a human to a mythical being. Faith is in fact ignorance of all facts. If you believe the bible then you have to ignore facts saying it is WRONG this is faith. From dinosaurs to creating the earth in 7 days to the great flood. You can NOT accept the provable facts in this world and have faith the bible is true. You can take either road but not both. They directly contradict each other. The fact is anytime you try to debate fats with a person of religion they have no choice but to ignore the facts and the way they do this is claiming faith. Faith requires belief but requires no proof.

 

[The_Outlaw]

I would not ever compare the intelligence of a human to a mythical being. Faith is in fact ignorance of all facts. If you believe the bible then you have to ignore facts saying it is WRONG this is faith. From dinosaurs to creating the earth in 7 days to the great flood. You can NOT accept the provable facts in this world and have faith the bible is true. You can take either road but not both. They directly contradict each other. The fact is anytime you try to debate fats with a person of religion they have no choice but to ignore the facts and the way they do this is claiming faith. Faith requires belief but requires no proof.

You are wrong on so many counts.

1) Yahweh & Yeshua are not 'mythical beings', one day you will assuredly bow your knees before Them both amigo.
2) Faith is not 'ignorant'. If I was to ask you does your mother love you, you would reply 'yes'. If I said 'prove it'. You would say, "I don't have to prove it, because I know that she loves me."
Hence, you have 'faith' that your mother loves you.
3) Creating the Earth in 7 days according to Yahweh's timeline, not mankinds timeline.
4) There are many theologins who agree that the Bible does actually talk about dinosaurs within the book of 'Job' (See Leviathon & Behemoth).
5) There is evidence of a great flood, the grand canyon was forged out of massive amounts of water flow according to many experts.
6) What so called 'provable facts' are you bloviating about??
7) "Science without religion is Lame, Religion without science is is BLIND" -Albert Einstein-
(Are you more intelligent than Albert Einstein or Isaac Newton)? I don't think so pal.
8) The only contradictions that I can see are all coming from both weak & flawed mankind and the enemies of Yahweh.
9) The fact is, that anytime you try to debate creationism with athiests & agnostics, those same athiests & agnostics have no choice but to ignore the spiritual facts that have been placed within their hearts & minds with the biased opinions of non believers.
10) Faith requires 'belief'.
11) Hypocritical self centered elitism only requires ignorance.

 

[msimmons]

Not really a contradiction as much as evidence of a loving God who knowing many will reject, still allows free will and the opportunity for all to be saved. I can't quote chapter and verse, but I have read in the Bible that God wants no one to perish, but wants all to be saved, He has done all He can without taking away free will to provide salvation. You know that old saying, if you love someone set them free, if they return to you, they are yours, if not, they never were. The angels were made without that free will. God gave mankind more than the angels. Freewill is at the core of our being. He wants mankind to turn to Him, He won't force us. He knows many will reject Him, yet He cannot take away our freewill. The choice is yours, but choose wisely.Our path is up to us. He knows our makeup and attitude, and knows our mind, yet He loves us enough to let us choose.

Your missing the point, even with "free will" if god was really "a god" or omnipotent and omniscient.. he would "know" the path you take before you exist being "all knowing" and what not, if he is popping people into existence with this knowledge then there would be no reason to "choose" anything since our path is predetermined anyways.

- Omnipotent- all powerful
- Omniscient - all knowing

There is no forcing, your right, but with the whole "god" idea we would be living in a predetermined path regardless.

 

[tcox4freedom]

Your missing the point, even with "free will" if god was really "a god" or omnipotent and omniscient.. he would "know" the path you take before you exist being "all knowing" and what not, if he is popping people into existence with this knowledge then there would be no reason to "choose" anything since our path is predetermined anyways.

- Omnipotent- all powerful
- Omniscient - all knowing

There is no forcing, your right, but with the whole "god" idea we would be living in a predetermined path regardless.

You are right in part and I almost liked your post. I'm one that does believe we are living a pre-determined path.

Ephesians 1:3-11 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

HOWEVER! Those that God foresaw as living life as an unbeliever HE still offers "Freedom to choose". Because God still loves the unbeliever, HE offers "free will" to all men in hopes that they will come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:8-9 (NKJV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

-

 

[fuhr52]

Your missing the point, even with "free will" if god was really "a god" or omnipotent and omniscient.. he would "know" the path you take before you exist being "all knowing" and what not, if he is popping people into existence with this knowledge then there would be no reason to "choose" anything since our path is predetermined anyways.

- Omnipotent- all powerful
- Omniscient - all knowing

There is no forcing, your right, but with the whole "god" idea we would be living in a predetermined path regardless.

Just one of those mysteries that mortal humans will never understand. Hasn't stopped me from believing there's a better life waiting all believers, in the spirit world that awaits us.

 

[msimmons]

Or! there could be nothing, fact is we really don't know until "you know". I'm certainly not going to run around inciting hate and fear just because people have separate beliefs, its understandable people would want an afterlife we cant control death, its fear of the unknown, and it helps bring peace of mind if you know your going somewhere. I have accepted the fact that maybe their might be nothing and if that's the case then it wont matter, I wont care either way. It's when a religion goes to far, by inciting fear and hate from people of different beliefs...we weren't all created the same and we will probably always have different views, one religion or any religion shouldn't get the right to choose how mankind lives.

 

[AppliedPerspective]

Your missing the point, even with "free will" if god was really "a god" or omnipotent and omniscient.. he would "know" the path you take before you exist being "all knowing" and what not, if he is popping people into existence with this knowledge then there would be no reason to "choose" anything since our path is predetermined anyways.

- Omnipotent- all powerful
- Omniscient - all knowing

There is no forcing, your right, but with the whole "god" idea we would be living in a predetermined path regardless.

That's only true if you place God within the constraints of our universe. From our perception, we have 3 dimensions; height, width and depth. According to relativity, time is the 4th dimension. Indeed, science has shown up to 17 dimensions, and likely many more. From our point of view, time is a never changing constant, but Einstein and others have shown that's not really true. If we believe that God created the universe, then logically, he must also exist outside of the universe. If God exists outside of the universe, but has influence over it, then God by necessity must also exist outside of time. I believe this is why the Bible says God is the same yesterday, today and forever. This is also the only logical explanation for an eternal heaven and hell. If heaven or hell were a place that existed within our universe, it would have to follow the laws of physics as they exist in this universe. And the laws of physics indicate that if our universe truly is eternal, then it will either slowly die out (search "heat death of the universe" for more on that) or will collapse in on itself. Neither of those scenarios allows for a place where eternal souls go and not only survive, but flourish. So if God is real, he exists outside of the universe, and by extension, so do heaven and hell. It is then completely possible that God both knows our future, and lets us determine it for ourselves through our choices. The simple explanation is that God is essentially a time traveler (in the sci-fi sense). Just because Doc Brown hops in a Delorean and cracks off 30 years in the future, doesn't mean that everything he saw in the future was pre-determined to happen that way. The people involved still made all of the choices to get to that point, he just skipped the middle chapters and went straight to the end.

So the point is, you can take a defeatist attitude that nothing really matters and it's all going to happen how it's going to happen, OR you can lay claim to your fate, accept God for what he is and live your life with a purpose greater than your 80 or so years. Just because at some point your book gets written, doesn't mean you don't have to do the writing. It's up to you to make it worth reading.