Bill Cavalieri
New member
Off Topic. You even capitalized it. It's obviously of interest to a lot of folks.
Ok you got me. I forced Jim to click this link. I'll stop.
This has been one of the more interesting threads on this site.
God & the Bible, squaring belief with reality
- Thread starter PestControl02
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Off Topic. You even capitalized it. It's obviously of interest to a lot of folks.
Ok you got me. I forced Jim to click this link. I'll stop.
This has been one of the more interesting threads on this site.
fstroupe
New member
tcox4freedom
New member
The last time I looked this is the "Off Topic" sub-forum; and I thought that's what it's for.
fstroupe
New member
But, if you read most of what has been portrayed by the media in the past 15 years or so, that number is more like 25%-30%.
It is neither natural nor normal, an occasional accident of nature. In nature they usually do not survive, and never get to reproduce. They do survive in domesticated animals....until they are eaten by humans.
You have it entirely wrong. The media and the gay activist community (not the average gay person) are the ones that want you to think that "they are taking over the world", in order to make homosexuality appear more normal. What you are seeing, partially anyway, is the reaction to their success. The stories about President Buchanan mentioned in this thread, there are other stories about President Lincoln, and other figures throughout history now claimed to be gay, the lies about the popularity of gay marriage, teaching homosexuality culture to first graders, etc, etc, are all part of this deluge of homosexuality forced upon the American people.
I personally have no problem with gays. I have known many throughout my life, even before when being out of the closet was acceptable. I have always respected and gotten along with them.....because I see them as people and not as gays.
The media and the gay activists are not happy with that, they want to saturate society with it, a typical Alinskyan tactic, and right in line with the Link Removed
But, as most people, I really don't care for anyone forcing anything down my throat, especially when I know the ulterior motive.
Christ portrayed Levitical Law as mostly man's law and not God's law, and time and time again we see in the Gospel that He had no problem violating it. Jesus' disregard for the Law was the original reason that the Jewish government decided to kill Him (Mark 3: 1-6)
Sodom and Gomorrah were evil places. There were people that had prayed to 20 Then the Lord said, "How great is the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah and how very grave their sin! 21 I must go down and see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry that has come to me; and if not, I will know." about them and that is why they were destroyed. (Abram and his family were not the only people from Southern Mesopotamia that worshiped Him)
At that point in time, there was no Law, it would not be given to Moses for another 400 or so years.
Shoobee
Banned
In Jesus' times, the Roman Empire and its occupying troops were apparently doing a really good job of preventing major crime. Therefore Jesus had the immediate luxury of being able to say love your neighbors. I am guessing he did not have too many sicko perv neighbors, or hoodies, or gang bangers with assault weapons (Stoner's choice of wording not mine), etc.
Right now, today, the police cannot do much if anything for you. So you can pray for your enemies all you want and love them too, but that is not going to keep them from killing you. At best it will only get you into God's Heaven faster.
Gotta love the Roman Empire for some things. Their taxes were high too, but at least the people got something for their tax dollars in return, like roads and aquaducts and control of crime.
PestControl02
New member
yeah, I don't know. I'm not too worried. I try to respect everyone...in the "bug business" I had the good fortune of crossing paths with a wide diversity of people..very,very rich to dirt poor.. including perverts, gang bangers & drug addicts..the insects didn't care..lol
99.9% of the folks I met were decent people.
so I just assume the best in people and let them change my mind. I've been burned a few times but never had any serious issues with anyone.
I would only kill in self defense and only after all other options were spent, I consider my brain as my main carry weapon, my firearm is secondary.
I believe killing humans is only justified in self defense, anything else is murder.
taking the life of someones father or brother, even in self defense, is definitely a last option for me.
I believe there is judgement in the end and we better be square with God before we get there.
Shoobee
Banned
It's not just "God" that will torture you. Your own conscience will torture you too, sometimes worse than God would.
God here having the meaning of the deity or deities that govern the universe however it is partitioned amoung them, galexy by galexy, or however.
3 such "Gods" coming to mind in our own Milky Way Galexy, they being "the Father" whom Jesus always referred to, and who the Pharisees presumed he meant YHVH as; he himself as "the Son"; and another one who came along later, called variously "the Paraclete" or comforter or Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost. These each seem to have different personalities and traits and co-rule together.
Ergo the Judaic notion of "monotheism" seems to be contradicted and dead in Christianity. I know how Rome has tried to worm out of the issue, but from the plain reading of the Greek New Testament, there is no way around the issue. Jesus had a dad and a mom, just like any other kid. And after Jesus left Bethany, Jesus sent "another Comforter" to take his place here on the Earth until his return sometime in the future.
PestControl02
New member
My thanks to your family for their service, we may not agree about the usefulness of war, but I have great respect for those standing guard over our Constitution...they are a big part of why I oppose war so much, I would much rather they were home with you instead.
You have my prayers for their safe & quick return.
PestControl02
New member
Well thats fine shoobee, it's not something I would consider to be of my Faith but I'm glad you've incorporated spiritual values into your life. I think it's important ..mind, body & soul need to be utilized for a proper human experience.
thanks for your comments.
rdp357
New member
This thread has been a very interesting read to say the least! I love to learn about history and recently been reading about the Tudor Dynasty which was nothing but Kings and their Lords, fighting the Roman Catholic church. Kings, Politicians and Religion = war!!! Which is just like it is in the present day. I also found out one very interesting thing about the King James Ver of the Bible. Which is the Bible I've always read and grew up with. For those that might not know: the Tudor Dynast was during the late 14th through the early 16th centurys, I'm sure everyone has heard of King Henry VIII, Queen Bloody Mary, Queen Elizabeth I ??? They all were hell bent on changing the Church of England to what they wanted it to be and changed things to read the way they wanted them.
When Queen Elizabeth I, died she turned over her thrown to King James VI of Scotland which was one of her relatives (she never had a child). Well, it was King James VI and I, King of Scotland, England and Ireland that actually set out to re-write the Bible to his own liking, which is what we know as the "King James Version". I for one, always wondered why the called it the King James Version?? I thought it had to written by some king from a long time ago in Biblical days (BC) But, it wasn't.
Revelations 22: states. "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
Now they have the "New King James Version" and I have no idea who wrote that one but do know it is a modern day version re-written within the last 20 years by people that wanted to change a few more scriptures to fit their needs or liking.
The point I'm trying to make is that "People of Power" Kings, Lords, Politicians, Presidents, Pope's, etc., through out history, have always changed the Bible to what they wanted it to mean. And, those same "People of Power" create all the wars, economic problems and turmoil we have in the world today.
We the people, are common folk, we try to elect the politicians that will speak for us and look out for our rights. But, the way it really is they look out for themselves and the next million their going to make, they really could care less about the people, other then having people to use. The "People of Power" as history states, are the ones that have always distroyed the kingdom.
I might of got a little off track but this is my contribution to the thread!
Authorized King James Version - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
When Queen Elizabeth I, died she turned over her thrown to King James VI of Scotland which was one of her relatives (she never had a child). Well, it was King James VI and I, King of Scotland, England and Ireland that actually set out to re-write the Bible to his own liking, which is what we know as the "King James Version". I for one, always wondered why the called it the King James Version?? I thought it had to written by some king from a long time ago in Biblical days (BC) But, it wasn't.
Revelations 22: states. "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
Now they have the "New King James Version" and I have no idea who wrote that one but do know it is a modern day version re-written within the last 20 years by people that wanted to change a few more scriptures to fit their needs or liking.
The point I'm trying to make is that "People of Power" Kings, Lords, Politicians, Presidents, Pope's, etc., through out history, have always changed the Bible to what they wanted it to mean. And, those same "People of Power" create all the wars, economic problems and turmoil we have in the world today.
We the people, are common folk, we try to elect the politicians that will speak for us and look out for our rights. But, the way it really is they look out for themselves and the next million their going to make, they really could care less about the people, other then having people to use. The "People of Power" as history states, are the ones that have always distroyed the kingdom.
I might of got a little off track but this is my contribution to the thread!
Authorized King James Version - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
PestControl02
New member
I dont thinks it's off track it all, it's a great point actually..
I mean why do we elect people that we know are thieves? that have lied to us over & over again.
I wouldn't let that person in my house or near my family...I'm all for loving my neighbor but some people just can't be trusted.
so we take the least trustworthy and grant them privilege to lord over us..it's a strange backwardness, for lack of a better a term & maybe not even a word..lol
This is definitely a reality that can be changed. the political class needs to be brought more in line with most peoples beliefs about honesty & theft.
thanks for your input
This is why I was taught by my parents and continue to consider the Bible as a guide to life. Not something that should be taken literally. The Bible is a great reference tool. To take it literally is a mistake. It has been written and translated by humans that are fallible. I do believe the Bible is inspired by God. But humans being humans wrote it.
Shoobee
Banned
You can indeed definitely tell that the original KJV has a strong Anglican slant to it.
Same as the Douay Rheims as a strong Catholic slant to it.
These two are among the earliest English translations from the Latin. So they are a re-translation of a Latin translation of what was originally in Hebrew and Greek.
The best thing is to learn Greek and just read it in Greek yourself, although the modern Greek versions are a hybrid of about 15 different Greek manuscripts which also contain their differences from each other.
The thing to remember about the various authors is that they are historical characters as well, and they bring their own life's experiences with them, as they speak from their own historical perspectives. Many protestants especially in the USA deep south believe that the hand of God hisself reached down and wrote the Bible with pen and ink in English from cover to cover.
Thus it is true that you cannot accurately wrestle words and phrases out of the Bible, in any language. You can only draw a general inference from it.
Still, Jesus' advice in the New Testament, and Moses' and the other prophets' advice in the Old Testament, are valuable instruments for improving the mind, and giving it the most distinct idea of any problem or proposition, as well as enabling it to solve the same.
Thou shalt not murder. When properly translated from the Hebrew, this allows self defense and defensive wars.
Love thine enemies. This is ok when it is safe to do so, to the end that you might convert them into your friends. Not exactly applicable to jihadists in shanty towns out to shoot you with an AK or Mosin Nagant.
Shoobee
Banned
By having grown up and lived in society, watched it on the news every day on tv, attended schools and university, stood watch with an M16 and 1911A1 in uniform for 4 years, worked in the business world of fraud and theft, and watched criminals try to burglarize and rob in the cities and suburbs of our cities, I have learned that civilization is both ancient and wicked.
How this will all affect each of us depends on what we have been taught and what we have read and listened to.
Anytime you have 2 or more people on a planet, you need rules.
Anytime you have 3 or more people on a planet, you will have politics as well.
1% of the population anywhere is born psychotic.
So you need to formulate your own rules, whether you get them from Jesus or Moses or Allah or Buddha or Confucius or Shinto.
For the Muslims and the Shinto and Judaic who are regularly taught that they are better than everyone else, I would question this doctrine if I were you. I do not believe "God" has any chosen people. All people seem to be equally chosen or not chosen.
Live and let live, help another if you can, protect yourself, and do nothing that you would not want anyone to do to you, and I trust you will then have good karma.
And don't blame God if you didn't become as rich as Mitt Romney, with over $20 million per year, and only 15% tax rate. At the same time, just because he is rich would not also make him a good president alone. Or else Perot and Forbes would also have made a great president as well, which I doubt.
God seems to have very little to do with what you get or don't get.
tcox4freedom
New member
Not exactly true there Shoo. The Bible tells us that God has everything to do with putting our political leaders in place.
I know it's scary ain't it? :fie:
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PestControl02
New member
I agree that the Bible was Divinely inspired.
I think you have a legitimate point of view... written/interpreted by men is a reality that can't be denied. I honestly get lost in all the different kinds of Bibles & different denominations.??/ I don't know why it's like that.
I'm a simple man. My Uncle gave me my Bible so I feel it's the one God wanted me to have.
I would say that if a person believes in God they should at least take the 10 Commandments literally.
I've said before, the Bible is stair..not a chair
in my opinion..Its meant, with work, to lift up & inspire new & wonderful things. Faith should never be stale & stationary...but flowing & alive, looking for opportunity to grow and spread.
Thanks for your comments.
PestControl02
New member
good post. I agree with you.
except about romneys money...LOL...I have no love of money...I only collect it because I have to in order to survive..it will never get you what really matters..health & love.
Shoobee
Banned
The 10 Commandments were given to the Israelites (Judaic and 11 other tribes) by Moses fairly early on, when he brought them out of Egypt.
They must have needed these commandments, it is quite a graphic view of their particular condition, to consider all 10 of them with soberness.
No idols, no graven images, no profanity, and devotion on the 7th day. Sounds like they had become quite a heathen mess, like the Greeks and Romans too, in different lands.
The youth must have been very rebellious and disobedient, so Moses gave them the 5th as well, to "honor" their parents, lest the Levitical law cause them to be stoned for not doing so.
Now to the really interesting parts. Do no murder and do no swapping with your wives. That is what the original Hebrew words say. Obviously St Jerome cleaned this up, into Latin, and changed it to "killing" and "adultery." But in Hebrew it says murder and swapping. Why did JHVH choose these people then? If those were two of their favorite passtimes.
No stealing and no lying, comes next. False witness being the worst form of lying, which is lying while under oath to tell the truth. Basically a false accusation.
No coveting, which is envy, coupled with trying to get for yourself something that is your neighbor's. Either his wife, his property, or anthing that is your neighbors.
It is no wonder that this whole generation of Israelites died wandering in the deserts of Sinai, except for Caleb and Joshua, who then led the next generation across the Jordan River to take over the lands of the snake and fire worshippers there already.
So basically only 2 people out of all those whom Moses led out of Egypt survived. Not even Moses, not even Aaron his brother, and not even Miriam their sister, survived the trek through the deserts. Fortunately for the world, Moses was a well educated prince of Egypt, and wrote down everything, which became the start of what later in 400 AD became by the hand of Jerome the Latin Bible, Old and New Testaments. From then on it was translated into the other languages as well.
It is easy for simpleton protestants to think that God hisself wrote the Bible with his own hand in English from the heavens, and that it was specifically written for John Doe Protestant, who is born again, who has said he has accepted Jesus, and now therefore thinks he is eternally saved, since that's what he hears preached in protestant church every week of every year of his life.
Jesus on the other hand emphasized *good works*.
"Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
Treo
Bullet Proof
If God's all powerfull don't you think He can watch over his word to make sure it says what He wants it to say?
In what way do you mean that?
Romans 3: 19 & 20 tells us that the purpose of the Law is to show that the entire world is guilty
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
The purpose of the Law is to show us that apart from Christ we have no hope of entering Heaven by our good deeds
Ringo
A WATCHMAN
Correct Treo, the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls prove beyond any doubt that the scriptures of the Bible have not been altered from the original scriptures.
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