Getting "Intimate" with Violence Poll
- Thread starter Barney
- Start date
doming83
New member
i think violence is human nature in fact i belive every one is capable of violent actions and probaly has used violence against someone at some point in thier life. Im not trying to excuse violence, we can all control ourselves, and not resort to it. Yet some people just dont want to, and just continue doing it.
Wolfling68
New member
Nature definately plays a role, but I think how we express our violent tendancies is based on nurture.
We are becomming more violent because violence is both suppressed and encouraged by our society.
I was watching CNN Anger in America yesterday. They had a guy on who was trying to get guns off the street in his community. He expressed it perfectly, he said the biggest guy with the biggest gun is the most important in the neighborhood. Violence results in elevated social status, this is a very powerful motivator, ask any anthropologist. Add to this our myths (Stories designed to transmit culture, in the US conveyed through movies, TV and video games) involve violent people doing violent things, without the tempering influences of the past that come from Religeon and more traditional morality stories and myths, and the leveling influences of adults (most kids do not spend much time around adults who will not tolerate their crap).
50 years ago, Bob and Tim get into a fight. Teacher, Priest, Minister or other local adult takes boys out back and has them fight it out (in a supervised setting, with boxing gloves if available). When the fight is over, the adult makes Bob and Tim shake hands and make up. Lessons learned: Fighting does not solve problems, but it does deal with the emotions of the situation. There are rules to fighting and they do not include killing each other. When the fight is over, you still have to learn to get along and resolve your problems. Adults are in control (enforcing the rules), especially when the kids are not.
If Bob is bigger than Tim, the adult would smack him and say what the hell are you doing picking on someone half your size, and the rest of the kids would look down on him. And God help Bob if it is Jill instead of Tim.
Today, Bob hits Tim, Tim Hits Bob back, both are suspended. Tim is lectured about how he has to tell a teacher if Bob hits him. After suspension, Bob hits Tim, tim tries to tell teacher but teacher is busy, Bob continues to hit Tim until Tim hits Bob Back. Both are suspended again. (Story related by a school employee I know). What have they learned? Tim has learned he cannot resolve his problems for himself. If he has a problem, he has to go to an authority figure to resolve it for him, and they will just ignore him. The system sucks and is stacked against him. What has Bob learned? That he can get away with just about anything with minimal punishment. And the other kids probably look up to Bob for being a badda$$
You want to address violence, sublimation (correct expression) is the key. Taking away weapons doesn't do a damn thing. Suppression makes it worse, just like anything else we try to suppress. We need to transmit a better cultural example to our kids (of any age), and provide a way for kids to express their violent tendencies in a controlled and supervised way (such as hunting, boxing and other martial arts, etc). And we need to remove the cultural incentives to violence (girls, are you listening?).
We are becomming more violent because violence is both suppressed and encouraged by our society.
I was watching CNN Anger in America yesterday. They had a guy on who was trying to get guns off the street in his community. He expressed it perfectly, he said the biggest guy with the biggest gun is the most important in the neighborhood. Violence results in elevated social status, this is a very powerful motivator, ask any anthropologist. Add to this our myths (Stories designed to transmit culture, in the US conveyed through movies, TV and video games) involve violent people doing violent things, without the tempering influences of the past that come from Religeon and more traditional morality stories and myths, and the leveling influences of adults (most kids do not spend much time around adults who will not tolerate their crap).
50 years ago, Bob and Tim get into a fight. Teacher, Priest, Minister or other local adult takes boys out back and has them fight it out (in a supervised setting, with boxing gloves if available). When the fight is over, the adult makes Bob and Tim shake hands and make up. Lessons learned: Fighting does not solve problems, but it does deal with the emotions of the situation. There are rules to fighting and they do not include killing each other. When the fight is over, you still have to learn to get along and resolve your problems. Adults are in control (enforcing the rules), especially when the kids are not.
If Bob is bigger than Tim, the adult would smack him and say what the hell are you doing picking on someone half your size, and the rest of the kids would look down on him. And God help Bob if it is Jill instead of Tim.
Today, Bob hits Tim, Tim Hits Bob back, both are suspended. Tim is lectured about how he has to tell a teacher if Bob hits him. After suspension, Bob hits Tim, tim tries to tell teacher but teacher is busy, Bob continues to hit Tim until Tim hits Bob Back. Both are suspended again. (Story related by a school employee I know). What have they learned? Tim has learned he cannot resolve his problems for himself. If he has a problem, he has to go to an authority figure to resolve it for him, and they will just ignore him. The system sucks and is stacked against him. What has Bob learned? That he can get away with just about anything with minimal punishment. And the other kids probably look up to Bob for being a badda$$
You want to address violence, sublimation (correct expression) is the key. Taking away weapons doesn't do a damn thing. Suppression makes it worse, just like anything else we try to suppress. We need to transmit a better cultural example to our kids (of any age), and provide a way for kids to express their violent tendencies in a controlled and supervised way (such as hunting, boxing and other martial arts, etc). And we need to remove the cultural incentives to violence (girls, are you listening?).
Wolfling68
New member
Well Said. Sublimation, proper expression. We should all be ready, willing, and able to exhibit great acts of violence when required. Might does not make right, but might does make right happen.
Piece Corps
New member
The root of violence? Gosh, it could be so many things. I might get violent, per H4KU, if anyone messes with me or my family or home. But I think a lot of violence comes from domination, as people wish to force their ways, views, or their presence on others. It is a means of control. And that's why I didn't vote, because the answer wasn't there,
hopnpop
sheepdog
AZSATT
New member
Interesting.
Give me two 2-year old kids and one toy. Violence is an inherent aspect of human nature. Even parents who think their babies are 'little angels' hate it when I use this example, because their little angel will try to rip the eyes out of that other kid in order to get that toy.
Doesn't mean they're trained to kill like a mad pitbull. Doesn't mean the parents are suspect. Doesn't mean anything other than violence has been happening for as long as people have been happening.
Give me two 2-year old kids and one toy. Violence is an inherent aspect of human nature. Even parents who think their babies are 'little angels' hate it when I use this example, because their little angel will try to rip the eyes out of that other kid in order to get that toy.
Doesn't mean they're trained to kill like a mad pitbull. Doesn't mean the parents are suspect. Doesn't mean anything other than violence has been happening for as long as people have been happening.
hopnpop
sheepdog
+1. Very good explanation.
Wolfling68
New member
Yep, and to add to it from an anthrapological point of view, most cultures have a correct way for boys to express their violent tendancies, usually without killing each other (the next tribe over might be fair game, however). Our society is telling them (mostly, football notwithstanding) violence is unacceptable so you have no outlet, now go watch mass murderers, serial killers and gangstas get rich on tv and in your games. Sending mixed messages here? no wonder our kids are killing each other
hopnpop
sheepdog
football among other stuff
...don't forget hockey & boxing. ...And for God's sake, U F C fighting!! Can't stomach watching UFC - I'm the guy screamin at the TV "TAP OUT!! TAP, you MORON!! Your opponent just broke your nose and shoved your leg up your ass - TAP OUT!!"
...don't forget hockey & boxing. ...And for God's sake, U F C fighting!! Can't stomach watching UFC - I'm the guy screamin at the TV "TAP OUT!! TAP, you MORON!! Your opponent just broke your nose and shoved your leg up your ass - TAP OUT!!"
Wolfling68
New member
In school, Kids don't box any more, or study MMA, the kids just watch on TV.
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