Fricker's shooting should not have happened...

[JimVette1]

This is a C/P from the Dayton Daily News:

BUTLER TWP., Montgomery County — A woman’s BlackBerry cell phone saved her from serious harm after her boyfriend’s concealed handgun discharged inside a restaurant.
The incident occurred about 11 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 6, in Fricker’s on Miller Lane, said Butler Twp. police Capt. Carl Bush.
The gun owner, Anthony J. Holtvogt, 24, of Kettering holds a concealed carry permit for the firearm.
He faces one charge of possession of a firearm in a liquor permit premises. The third-degree felony is punishable by up to five years in prison and a $10,000 fine.
Bush said Holtvogt, his girlfriend, 22, and other friends were enjoying beers at Fricker’s, 6834 Miller Lane. The girlfriend lives in Butler Twp.
When they prepared to leave, Holtvogt told police, he picked up his coat and began putting it on. The firearm was in the coat pocket.
The sleeve got caught in the coat, and as Holtvogt reached down, he noticed the slide on the .32-caliber handgun was pulled back. The gun then discharged.
The slug put a hole through his coat and his girlfriend’s jeans, but struck the BlackBerry in her left pants pocket dead center, Bush said. The bullet caused only bruising, and the woman declined medical treatment, Bush said.
“The BlackBerry saved her absolutely,” Bush said. “It could have been pretty serious.”
If Holtvogt is convicted, he faces a mandatory revocation of his concealed carry permit, Bush said.
The Montgomery County Sheriff’s Office, which issues the permits, has been notified, Bush said.


One step forward ,TWO giant leaps backwards. That's how I feel when people like this do not obey the laws that we are trying so hard to change. I'm referring to House Bill 203, and our ability to carry concealed in restaurants.
Many fine people have testified before legislators to change this law with very good arguments, such as, Concealed Carry people are well trained to handle a firearm, we go through at least 12 hours of training to safely handle our sidearms in a safe manner, we know and OBEY the laws, we are fingerprinted and background checks are made.
Allegedly, at least TWO of those laws we broken by the following individual, who had a CCL. UGH!!
When I see the dreaded signs “NO GUNS ALLOWED” on an establishment's windows or doors and I try to explain to them that criminals ignore these and you are disarming responsible citizens ; all they have to say is “What about Fricker's”?
Seriously, I am at a lost, how do you respond?
Not to mention he damn near killed his girlfriend!
I know one bad apple.....but does this guy have any idea what he has done? Or more wisely stated 'Undone”?

 

[JJFlash]

This pisses me off to no end...Not that he was carrying where he shouldn't have been but that he was STUPID. He's drinking, for one thing, which is STUPID. Then, he's not taking care of his piece: it's floating in his coat pocket and he's taken off his coat, which is STUPID. Then, as he's putting on his coat, notices the slide is racked and "somehow" the gun goes off...STUPID.

This guy's a poster child for the antis...and sets the Cause back...just because he was STUPID.

 

[Glockster20]

This reinforces my belief that not everyone is meant to be a gun owner. Quick tempered, irresponsible and STUPID people have no business carrying. I agree, this incident makes the entire CCW community look bad!

 

[CapGun]

Don't carry if you are drinking! Don't drink if you are carrying!
The beers could not have helped in this case at all no matter how it happened.
Hope all our black eyes heal quickly!

 

[ricbak]

What's left to be said... The whole choir is shaking their heads... :fie:

 

[NbleSavage]

Alcohol + CCW do not mix. This guy is guilty of 1st class felony stupidity. Thanks for setting-back the CCW movement by about 12 months.

Ugh.

- Savage

 

[Unfettered Might]

Guess he's too cheap to spring for a holster.

What a moron.

 

[brickler]

This is a C/P from the Dayton Daily News:
One step forward ,TWO giant leaps backwards. That's how I feel when people like this do not obey the laws that we are trying so hard to change. I'm referring to House Bill 203, and our ability to carry concealed in restaurants.
Many fine people have testified before legislators to change this law with very good arguments, such as, Concealed Carry people are well trained to handle a firearm, we go through at least 12 hours of training to safely handle our sidearms in a safe manner, we know and OBEY the laws, we are fingerprinted and background checks are made.
Allegedly, at least TWO of those laws we broken by the following individual, who had a CCL. UGH!!
When I see the dreaded signs “NO GUNS ALLOWED” on an establishment's windows or doors and I try to explain to them that criminals ignore these and you are disarming responsible citizens ; all they have to say is “What about Fricker's”?
Seriously, I am at a lost, how do you respond?
Not to mention he damn near killed his girlfriend!
I know one bad apple.....but does this guy have any idea what he has done? Or more wisely stated 'Undone”?

Do keep in mind, people are not infallible. The more people you have concealed carry, the more chance of people making mistakes (or doing something "stuipd"), doing things they should know better than doing, etc. How many times do we see stories of LOEs doing things that set back the reputation of their departments? It all goes back to human error. Whether it be someone doing something that they should know better than doing, or making a bad decision that eventually bites them in the blackberry...

 

[JJFlash]

Do keep in mind, people are not infallible. The more people you have concealed carry, the more chance of people making mistakes (or doing something "stuipd"), doing things they should know better than doing, etc. How many times do we see stories of LOEs doing things that set back the reputation of their departments? It all goes back to human error. Whether it be someone doing something that they should know better than doing, or making a bad decision that eventually bites them in the blackberry...

I"m not so quick to accept this, brickler. I agree with your basic premise, number of people and all that. But this guy made one stupid decision after another. A "mistake" is one thing, but repeated stupidity is quite another.

 

[cmartinez95]

I remember my CHL instructor spent A LOT of time telling our class that if we're going to be drinking that we COULD NOT carry our firearms. Period. No room for discussion.

This lady is lucky this bonehead only had a .32 on him or things could have been worse for her. I don't think that little blackberry would have been so effective against a larger round like a .45 or something, in my opinion.

 

[Confess]

I remember my CHL instructor spent A LOT of time telling our class that if we're going to be drinking that we COULD NOT carry our firearms. Period. No room for discussion.

This lady is lucky this bonehead only had a .32 on him or things could have been worse for her. I don't think that little blackberry would have been so effective against a larger round like a .45 or something, in my opinion.

These were my exact first two thoughts except I thought them in the opposite order. After these I thought I should get a blackberry.

Accidents happen. They just seem to happen to stupid ( irresponsible ) people more often.:hang3:

 

[brickler]

I"m not so quick to accept this, brickler. I agree with your basic premise, number of people and all that. But this guy made one stupid decision after another. A "mistake" is one thing, but repeated stupidity is quite another.

Fair enough. My point was that I don't see the one bad apple as ruining the whole bunch. It was more about let's try to keep it in perspective.

 

[g30sheepdog]

This pisses me off to no end...Not that he was carrying where he shouldn't have been but that he was STUPID. He's drinking, for one thing, which is STUPID. Then, he's not taking care of his piece: it's floating in his coat pocket and he's taken off his coat, which is STUPID. Then, as he's putting on his coat, notices the slide is racked and "somehow" the gun goes off...STUPID.

This guy's a poster child for the antis...and sets the Cause back...just because he was STUPID.

I agree with JJFlash 100%!! W.T.F!!? F###ing amateurs! It’s hard enough for us to make progress with the 2A and ccw laws as it is. And this kind of B.S. doesn’t help one bit! :angry: :angry:

 

[JJFlash]

Fair enough. My point was that I don't see the one bad apple as ruining the whole bunch. It was more about let's try to keep it in perspective.

Agreed. But it always makes me wonder: how many more are "out there" who take the minimal training and testing to get the CWP and then strap on a firearm and think they're good to go? Then, they end up "stupid" or worse, dead, or even worse still, shooting an innocent person whether by ND or otherwise. This guy, no way, no how, was sufficiently prepared to carry a firearm, IMHO. How many other "bad apples" do we have to worry about?

 

[2beararms]

This is the problem with just dropping a gun in your pocket. It is going to get caught on something and go bang. Part of CCW should be a requirement to use a holster of some type. Most holsters would have prevented either or both the slide going back or the trigger being released.

 

[jordan.m]

This guy is an embarrassment to the whole CC clan. I know sometimes I want to throw my cell phone but I never thought to shoot it.

 

[Aresye]

It's pretty obvious that this guy isn't telling a truthful story to the authorities and/or news teams. First off, no matter how small the hand gun, I fail to see how the slide can be accidentally racked to the rear. The only time I've seen this happen is with really tight nylon holsters, which is why I keep my thumb over the hammer as I'm holstering. Even then, it's pretty rare that a slide will stay locked to the rear, unless you engage the slide lock, or a magazine is empty. There's a lot of tension on the spring, and certainly not enough to "accidentally" rack it. It's like some of my coworkers arguing over the fact I carry with a round chambered. With my P239 in DA mode, it's almost impossible to snag something with enough force, to cause it to go off. Guns today are engineered, and designed, to make sure that the only time they fire, is when you want them to, by pulling the trigger.

My theory on this situation, is the guy was a little buzzed, reached into his pocket to find his hammer (not his slide) cocked to the rear, and in attempting to reset it, ended up firing the gun.

Regardless of what actually happened though, this guy should not be allowed to CC anymore.

 

[kevin mosley]

1) Ditto to all above. This was a MISSION to be KING IDIOT... and we all get to pay the price for it.

2) Off topic: a coat pocket, a layer of denim, and a Blackberry stopped a 32acp round ?
Wow, good news in this case, but I'm surprised.

 

[BigSlick]

I think there is still something fishy about this story. If the sleeve got "stuck" in the pocket how could he see the gun and know that the slide was back and then it goes BANG???? Something weird going on.

 

[Chunkychuck]

The reality is though if we want to get the RKBA to an unrestricted status then we have to be willing to let idiots get permits and then do a bunch of putting out fires when they do screw up. We have to be armed with our facts about how permit holder crime rates compare to non-permit holders. Or we can continue to let the states dictate various requirements and live by them and not complain about the restrictions.