Doesn't The Gun Owner Bear At Least Some Responsibility?

[Treo]

There are two stories making the rounds right now about people who were arrested after they tried to check a loaded handgun at the WTC Memorial in New York.

In both cases it appears to me that the gun owners were grossly negligent in traveling to another state w/out making any attempt to find out what the gun laws were there.

I know that people don’t think NYC’s gun laws are just, I don’t think NYC’s gun laws are just but for right now they are the law and I really feel that in both cases the gun owners who didn’t bother to check the laws bear most of the responsibility.

How am I wrong?

 

[NavyLCDR]

I would say you aren't wrong. That being said, there are tons of misconceptions that people have about concealed carry permits, especially when crossing state lines. Last time I checked, though, not knowing what the speed limit is on a strange road is not, by itself, going to get me out of the speeding ticket.

 

[Nightmare45]

The owner of the gun is responsible for knowing the laws anywhere they carry, ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

 

[chiefpropellerhead]

I agree with everything that is being said in response thus far. The gun owner and CWP holder is responsible for KNOWING the local and state laws with regards to the weapon and how it is to be transported. Ignorance is no excuse.

 

[WB9IIE]

Everything I see in the above posts is very true. When I went through the training required for the Missouri C/C, nothing was said about where to obtain factual information. It WAS mentioned, however that the gun owner IS responsible for knowing the laws in the community where he/she is carrying. When I moved to Tennessee, I had to through training again because Tennessee, although it does have reciprocity with Missouri, did not recognise training conducted in the Show Me State, and I was required to sit through all the training again, which I didn't mind. Can't ever get enough training. the Tennessee instructor, a retired LEO, mentioned USACARRY.COM as about the best source of information for the average citizen. Unfortunately, for the lady from Tennessee at Ground Zero, she will probably loose her state issued permit, unless she is found inocent of the charges against her, or the State of Ney York dismisses the case.

This website has an excellant resource available in the interactive maps area. Click on the state you will be visiting and scroll down through the application information, and there is usually a section that will tell one where firearms are prohibited within that particular state.

Any time we get ready to travel, I go to the state's pages where we will be traveling, highlight the prohibitions, and copy them to a word document with the name of the state as the header. If there is more than one state, I go to each state and repeat the process. After compiling the information, I print the word document and keep one copy in the center counsole and another copy folded in my pocket. You can get a great education when doing this, and maybe even stay out of jail.

 

[Caribou]

Yes, these people are responsible for knowing the laws of each State they visit. Yes, they screwed up. For me the disturbing thing is that time after time we hear of people trying to do the right thing and NY stomping on them. An honest person with a permit to carry from another jurisdiction trying to abide by the law outs him/her self. Someone with a layover checks in at the airport.

We are talking about good people here who wind up losing their gun, their freedom, loads of attorney fees, and their right to carry. These are the people we need on the street with a gun. Lord knows there are enough on the other side out there.

It is like the kid that rides his bike out in front of the car. You know it is the kids fault but you can't help but feel bad. Now, I can't do a lot about the kid but in this case I will let my senators know I wish them to pass HR822. this should slow down the violation of our rights by NYS &NYC.

Another point is that this is just not right. The words "shall not infringe" seem to have little effect in NY. NY wants no one to have a gun and what I see them doing is using our State laws against us. When they finally send these people back home they have lost their right to carry. So, when I see someone break an unjust law through ignorance and while attempting to do the right thing I will always be upset.

 

[pyth0n]

There are two stories making the rounds right now about people who were arrested after they tried to check a loaded handgun at the WTC Memorial in New York.

In both cases it appears to me that the gun owners were grossly negligent in traveling to another state w/out making any attempt to find out what the gun laws were there.

I know that people don’t think NYC’s gun laws are just, I don’t think NYC’s gun laws are just but for right now they are the law and I really feel that in both cases the gun owners who didn’t bother to check the laws bear most of the responsibility.

How am I wrong?

You're not wrong. Articles have been written that advise checking state laws when traveling cross country, every gun site has had individuals ask about traveling with guns with airlines. Each time a member mentions checking state laws before leaving home. I direct my students to sites like this and Handgun Laws for info and state contact agencies.

 

[Samuel]

You are not wrong. The ones committing the crime should be held responsible despite not knowing. If the person who doesn't think the law is just is arrested, that person can always challenge the law in court, through the legislature, and in the court of public opinion.

Every person I teach in my class is told although this is the law it doesn't mean the law will always be the same forever.

 

[Treo]

Every person I teach in my class is told although this is the law it doesn't mean the law will always be the same forever.

Every gun owner in America needs to get that tatooed to their forhead so they read it every day when they brush their teeth

 

[unclewayne17]

I don't know if they still have the sign up saying no guns allowed but they did. I stopped there one time on my way in and you know what? Not a single person had thrown out there gun to be legal there, so I guess there are a lot of illeagle guns in NYC.

 

[Fitch]

You are not wrong. The ones committing the crime should be held responsible despite not knowing. If the person who doesn't think the law is just is arrested, that person can always challenge the law in court, through the legislature, and in the court of public opinion.

Every person I teach in my class is told although this is the law it doesn't mean the law will always be the same forever.

What bothers me is that the punishment way overshadows the crime. There was no intent to break the law but the young nurse in one of the stories is facing a felony conviction and 3.5 years in jail for making a mistake but with out any intent to commit a crime. What she should have done, in hindsight, when she realized her mistake was go back to where ever she was staying, hide the gun, do her tourist thing, hide it in her suitcase, and get out of NY. Of course all that would have been illegal, but at least she wouldn't be in the mess she is in now.

The gun laws in this country, and especially in NY, are intentionally obtuse and difficult to deal with. I defy anyone of us on here to travel across the country with legal permits for the gun being packed in every state visited with out breaking a law. It's darn near impossible. Read the rules all you want, you will screw up someplace. If that happens, despite your best intentions, do you think you should go to jail for 3.5 years, be convicted of a felony, and never ever be able to buy or carry a gun again?

I don't. And I don't think she deserves it either. Misdemeanor, fine, probably, but not 3.5 years and a felony conviction when she had no intent to commit a crime. Mens Rey is missing from nearly all the gun laws and it shouldn't be. It's missing from most new federal laws and it shouldn't be. There are too many laws for anybody to keep track of them. There are now over 4,500 federal crimes one can be convicted of. I bet every one of us has violated one or the other and didn't even know it.

Congress is made up of lawyers. The federal laws are written as a jobs program for lawyers. Makes me ill just thinking about it. The reason malpractice laws aren't revised to make sense? The American Trial Lawyers Lobby is against it.

Was it her responsibility? Yes. Does the punishment fit the crime? Absolutely not.

Fitch

 

[xdmgator]

Well I'm sorry but carrying a firearm and being a CWP holder is a huge responsibility dadgumit if you aren't smart enough to know the laws or your not smart enough to remember you have your weapon on you then I don't want you carrying anyway. Lots of basics were taught to us in our class and reciprocity was a huge one ... That all being said I also agree the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

 

[FN1910]

I agree that the punishment does not fit the crime and lots of NY gun laws are out of line. However right now they are the law and knowing the laws is just as much part of the responsibility of carrying a gun as knowing how to shoot it. I may be in the minority but I don't care if you can hit the 10 ring at 50 yards with one hand tied behind your back while running at full speed if you don't know the laws and rules of safety you are not better off than the person that can't pull the trigger without closing their eyes and turning their head away.

On the topic of H. 822 if it should pass I will guarantee there is going to be a lot of people caught up in similar traps as the ones brought up by the OP. Remember that if H.822 passes you will still be required to obey the laws of the state you are in there may be some laws very different than your home state. For those running around making assumptions and getting the majority of their information on gun laws from Hollywood or their buddies at the local watering hole they may very well be in for a rude awakening. It may be a dumb law but it is still a law that can and will be enforced.

 

[mdkoh]

What I'm trying to figure out is this, if weapons are illegal in New York City venues, then why was there a need to post a no firearms sign? Everyone should have been unarmed, right? I know they have permit holders, allbeit very few, but again the City doesn't even trust their own permit holders, let alone someone from out of State.

I agree the punishment does not fit the crime. Good people who make a mistake and then in the aftermath become convicted felons because of an inflexible system that pays no regard to a citizens good character. It would be a different story if this was a homeboy with multiple convictions for assault, drug dealing or other various crimes. These people by all other accounts are law abiding and of good conduct. Lets hope they cut them a break.