Do You Support ANY Gun Control Laws?

[gunnerbob]

See my responses in bold-n-blue:

How easy it is for those myopically working the ideologically pure, absolutist 2A agenda to ignore the realities that neither the world nor the legal system works that way. So if the legal system doesn't work that way with the laws we have now... how would more laws fix that...? Some people should not have guns. Agreed! However, the gov't is the last institution that should decide who falls into that category. They will usually be released from prisons and mental institutions at some point as defined by law. Please explain why every single one of those people should never be legally permitted to purchase a firearm... remember, if they're an evil person they're going to get a weapon no matter what the law says. That doesn't change because you don't like the law. And, what I said doesn't change b/c you like the law... It's the business of lawmakers and judges to maximize public safety with minimal intrusion into gun rights. Yep, and they've been d!cking that job up for a century... The usual and predictable "camel's nose under the tent" rhetoric does not change that. Your usual, "head in the sand" rhetoric doesn't change the fact that laws can never and will never prevent evil people from committing evil acts.

Perhaps you should use all of the intellect gained from three decades of service to the Constitution and no doubt multiple degrees... to actually think critically.

 

[wolf_fire]

How easy it is for those myopically working the ideologically pure, absolutist 2A agenda to ignore the realities that neither the world nor the legal system works that way. Some people should not have guns. They will usually be released from prisons and mental institutions at some point as defined by law. That doesn't change because you don't like the law. It's the business of lawmakers and judges to maximize public safety with minimal intrusion into gun rights. The usual and predictable "camel's nose under the tent" rhetoric does not change that.

Ahh, now I'm myopic... I'm glad we haven't resorted to name calling or anything. Are you sure it is not the other way around? You deem that we should ALL be gone through a mental evaluation to weed out the very few, rather my position is to not treat me in such a way that I am mentally ill until I prove otherwise. You deem that we all should be treated like a violent felon until we prove otherwise because we already have screwed up laws that allows the violent felon back on the street. It is NOT the business of judges to maximize public safety, never has been. It is the business of judges to interpret the Constitution correctly. Safety, is something each individual is responsible for.

Any intrusion to a right, then takes away the status of it being a right and turns it into a privilege according to whatever rhetoric the government officials use to dupe those like you and others to accept. I should never have to ask permission to speak, express my religious beliefs, keep and bear arms. I should never be subject to searches without due cause and a warrant by a judge, I should never be treated like a mental patient or a felon until I can prove otherwise. These are rights my friend. These are our rights inalienable from whatever the government says. We have them regardless of what law comes down the pike. You may like that or lump it, but that is the foundation of how this great country was created. Just because the governmental leaders of the recent past and present have usurped your rights and trampled on the Constitution does not make it any less your rights. Fight for them, not against them.


\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Please read the section in blue. Truer words could not have been said.

 

[Reloader]

More laws have only favored the law breakers and made criminals out of society. This is only to seek control of those who will allow themselves to be controlled.

 

[wolf_fire]

Please scroll up and read the clarification on what I meant then let me know where I am off base.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 4

Wording is a bit off, but your info is fairly on. :smile: Didn't see your clarification when I replied to your post.

 

[Kramer1113]

One of the posters asked those who are opposed to any gun control not to be emotional. Yet, you ask us to visit a mental health facility and have our heart strings tugged by how cruel and insensitive mental health issues are and how out of touch those with a mental health issue are with reality and then use this emotional outcry to say that no one with mental health issues should be allowed a gun. On the part of "should", I agree. On the part of the government regulating it, I completely disagree. There is a reason why the words "shall not be infringed" exist on the 2nd Amendment, when it was clear when the Constitution was written that these rights were inalienable from the government and none of them were to be infringed. Why did the 2nd get special consideration. The reason being is because our forefathers realized that there is not a soul that can be trusted to limit this right correctly. I know people that have been treated by a psychologist. I know some that are being treated with Lithium for their condition. I knew one that did not even know what world he was in, truly sad. How do you write a piece of legislation to differentiate those people? Even if it could be done, at what point does the limiting legislation stop? This is the problem with any gun control legislation. There is more to lose with allowing it, then there ever is to gain.

I don't care to take the emotion out of the "Argument". I never suggested we do that and I don't believe its possible.

IF you understand Mental Illness, then the statement asking you to go see it IS NOT intended for You.

I stand by the current federal Law. If you don't, what are you doing to change it? Poking holes in the air on a USA Carry Forum? That will get the law changed!

I am living by the Law Of The Land. This is what I am called to do.

For those things I feel are unjust I contribute my money to candidates who share my beliefs.

I write letters and try to be sure my concerns are heard if not addressed.

You can "Poll" all you want on USA Carry but until you put your time and money where your mouth is AND have the majority with you, you'll never see a change.

 

[Kramer1113]

I'm so glad you are for this wonderful program that has taken rights away from people. :blink::blink:

Then Get Out There And Change The Law...
Create a Movement, Gather the people together, Show the Statistics of who is committing the crime and who is not, Get the American People Behind You and Change The Law!
Everyone wants to point out what the founding fathers wanted and intended but few commit their time and treasure towards changing the laws.

Get it started, I'll sign your petition and if and when you get the law passed, I'll live by the law of the land under that law.

 

[gunnerbob]

Just wondering, how do you know wolf-fire isn't politically active? Wanna know what I was doing this afternoon...? I was at my local gun shops discussing the organization I'm affiliated with (see: avatar) and passing out push cards. Believe it or not, I did this with my two children with me... even though they can be a handful, it needs to be done. As I hoped, I actually met a few fellow members... there to enjoy their 2A rights.

Oh, yeah... I picked up a spankin' new Crickett w/ a 4x scope! Score!

 

[Kramer1113]

Just wondering, how do you know wolf-fire isn't politically active? Wanna know what I was doing this afternoon...? I was at my local gun shops discussing the organization I'm affiliated with (see: avatar) and passing out push cards. Believe it or not, I did this with my two children with me... even though they can be a handful, it needs to be done. As I hoped, I actually met a few fellow members... there to enjoy their 2A rights.

Oh, yeah... I picked up a spankin' new Crickett w/ a 4x scope! Score!

Those Crickets are neat little guns. Whats the weight?

I don't know who is politically active and who isn't.
However, If someone is actively trying to change a law I thought I would have received an email or PM asking that I read a proposed law or change to a law.
As I stated above, I am not opposed to a change in the law (Depending on the change) I simply support the current law as for myself and my family, I see no need for the change.
I buy what I want when I can afford it, I don't have to wait to take my purchase home, and I could care less about the background check.
When I joined the Army They did a background check to be sure I was eligible to join. I underwent background checks when I became an MP.
I don't mind the background check when I work at the local schools and I'm not opposed to others being checked for the same and other reasons.

Overall I feel being on cameras just about everywhere I go is a bigger infringement upon me but I'm over it too.!

 

[gunnerbob]

Those Crickets are neat little guns. Whats the weight?

I don't know who is politically active and who isn't.
However, If someone is actively trying to change a law I thought I would have received an email or PM asking that I read a proposed law or change to a law.
As I stated above, I am not opposed to a change in the law (Depending on the change) I simply support the current law as for myself and my family, I see no need for the change.
I buy what I want when I can afford it, I don't have to wait to take my purchase home, and I could care less about the background check.
When I joined the Army They did a background check to be sure I was eligible to join. I underwent background checks when I became an MP.
I don't mind the background check when I work at the local schools and I'm not opposed to others being checked for the same and other reasons.

Overall I feel being on cameras just about everywhere I go is a bigger infringement upon me but I'm over it too.!

2.2lbs w/o the optic, I'll get back to you about that...

I follow what your saying, krammer... but, different methods for different folks. I gauge who agrees with my points of view based off of the interactions in various threads, if somebody is bumping heads with me in an open thread... I'm not going to waste time discussing (fill in the blank) in PMs.

 

[Kramer1113]

2.2 lbs, you'll be able to lift that post surgery no problem.

Come on man, bumping heads in a forum isn't going to stop someone from rallying support is it? Not like we posted Black Panther members outside the door.

 

[dcselby1]

Absolutely no arms control of any kind!! Criminals will always arm themselves!!

The Second Amendment protects All Rights!!

OK, I'M JUST THROWING THIS OUT FOR DISCUSSION. I've skimmed the replies and didn't see (or missed) any comments regarding people who should NOT have guns. And I've known quite a few over the years! For example, in Michigan convicted felons are not allowed to possess firearms. How about people who are mentally ill? I mean, flat out nuts! Should they be able to walk into a gun store and pick up any gun they want? Or, how about a 14-year old child? What about foreigners? Of the Mideast persuasion for example? Should there be NO "background" checks at all? I mean if, as I believe, that the Second Amendment allows everyone to possess a firearm, doesn't that mean there ARE no restrictions. What say you all?

 

[Bikenut]

OK, I'M JUST THROWING THIS OUT FOR DISCUSSION. I've skimmed the replies and didn't see (or missed) any comments regarding people who should NOT have guns. And I've known quite a few over the years! For example, in Michigan convicted felons are not allowed to possess firearms. How about people who are mentally ill? I mean, flat out nuts! Should they be able to walk into a gun store and pick up any gun they want? Or, how about a 14-year old child? What about foreigners? Of the Mideast persuasion for example? Should there be NO "background" checks at all? I mean if, as I believe, that the Second Amendment allows everyone to possess a firearm, doesn't that mean there ARE no restrictions. What say you all?

I personally believe in no restrictions of any kind on anyone in regards to owning (keeping) and carrying (bearing) arms (guns) but I firmly believe in removing the criminal who uses his owning and carrying to harm others from society by incarcerating them and keeping them incarcerated until they can be trusted to not harm anyone if they are released...............and the same standard applies to the nuts ... keep them locked up until they become sane or just keep them locked up.

It isn't about the gun... it is all about punishing the person, the individual, the human being, who used the gun to cause harm!!!! However.... our society seems to think the uncontrollable can be controlled by passing laws that tell the uncontrollable what they aren't "allowed" to do never understanding the uncontrollable criminal and the nut just don't shive a git what they aren't "allowed" to do.

 

[Warrior1256]

Anytime that you try to compromise with the antis they immediately come back with more demands. Therfore, you have to fight them on everything.

 

[thru]

the second actually only applied to those who might be called up for service in the militia. Free white males, between the ages of 18-40, IIRC. So you don't want to go betting everything on the 2nd. If the 2nd is repealed, THEN what, hmm? The Constitution, if we don't ENFORCE it, is just a piece of paper and it does NOT grant you any rights. Rights come from your being able and willing to SERIOUSLY HARM those who try to usurp those rights. When it becomes apparent to the ever present aggressor that you can't or won't do so, you'll be killed or enslaved. That is true all throughout history and everywhere. Everyone AGREES that a rabbit has the "right" to bite the cat that is trying to kill him, IF HE CAN. Humans just found a better way to "bite" first, from a distance, that is the only difference. Punks don't need guns. Hunks of pipe, fist sized rocks to throw, bare hands, force of numbers, big man attacking a small woman, are enough for the defender to need a gun to stop the attack.

 

[thru]

You can't carry even a pocketknife in England. If you'd asked ANY Japanese, 70 years ago, if there'd ever be a law there banning SWORDS, you'd have been locked up as a complete idiot. Yet that has been the law there for decades now. NEVER concede ONE INCH to wannabe enslavers. Doing so just encourages them to try again.

 

[CharlesMorrison]

Sorry, this isn't personal but you've got it coming:

Sounds personal to me...

It's soooo nice that we are all on the same side though!!

Link Removed

The quote from "Abe" is relevant to the topic..

Sent from behind enemy lines.

 

[BluesStringer]

The quote from "Abe" is relevant to the topic...

That would be this quote, right?

I have a hard time accepting as relevant to any topic a quote speaking about perverting the Constitution from one of the worst perverters of the Constitution in history.

Does the same quote carry any weight with you coming from this Constitution-usurping traitor?

If we substituted the word "Revolution" for the word "Constitution," would this traitor to the founding of the US of A be worthy of listening to?

620,000 dead Americans, more than half of which were citizens of 10 free and sovereign states that decided the union they voluntarily joined upon ratification of the Constitution a mere generation prior, died at the hands of the despot Lincoln. He was this country's deadliest war criminal, and a whore to special interests that pumped money into his and the Republican Party's coffers. And he was anything but "honest." Just 12 years prior to foisting a war of aggression on the Confederacy, he spoke in glowing terms about the idea of seccession.

Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right - a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people, that can, may revolutionize, and make their own of so much of the territory as they inhabit. -- Abraham Lincoln January 12, 1848

He suspended the Constitution during the War of Northern Aggression, as well as habeas corpus.

Personally, I would no more accept his expertise about freedom and/or The Constitution than I would Hitler's, Pol Pot's, Mao's, Marx' or Stalin's, whether they seemed "on topic" or not. I think that was what gunner was getting at, though he is welcome to clarify for himself if I'm wrong about that.

I get that the winners get to write the history, but in this day and age, with information so literally at our fingertips, it never ceases to baffle me beyond description how today's constitutional patriots can hold Lincoln in such high esteem. He was a brutal tyrant and a phony of the first order. Unless tyrants is the topic, his name and/or quotations have no business in discussions about our rights. No man alive or dead ever did more to deny Americans and their Southern neighbors their rights.

Blues

 

[superprincess]

fudo, great minds think alike

 

[CharlesMorrison]

Never said I held Abe in high esteem.
He is a tool as were others.
Sorry to have pissed on your corn flakes!
Just tell me how you "really feel" though and don't hold back, please!
It sooo nice to be the brunt of one of your rants... But I guess "I had it coming" huh?
I thought we "all" stood for a common cause here. To do everything one can do to fight for the rights that God has given us.
I am sorry that the Abe quote upset some of you, it was not my intention.
I appreciate the information that was passed on concerning Abe. It was information I was truly not aware of.
I guess I need to bone up on my history.

Sent from behind enemy lines.

 

[wolf_fire]

I don't care to take the emotion out of the "Argument". I never suggested we do that and I don't believe its possible.

IF you understand Mental Illness, then the statement asking you to go see it IS NOT intended for You.

I stand by the current federal Law. If you don't, what are you doing to change it? Poking holes in the air on a USA Carry Forum? That will get the law changed!

I am living by the Law Of The Land. This is what I am called to do.

For those things I feel are unjust I contribute my money to candidates who share my beliefs.

I write letters and try to be sure my concerns are heard if not addressed.

You can "Poll" all you want on USA Carry but until you put your time and money where your mouth is AND have the majority with you, you'll never see a change.

So what you are saying then is you put your time and money into making sure we have candidates who will make sure there is more gun control? You have mentioned more than once that you want to make sure there is gun control for the mentally ill and the felon. Since you assume I do nothing to help actually maintain our rights, I guess I will need to do that much more since there are gun owners like yourself who are doing all they can to usurp the rights of the citizenry. How dare you come on here and assume that since we post (like you do) that we do not do anything else? Why do you make this a personal issue against me, when it is a very real issue against our Constitution?

Kramer, please tell me why you have the 2nd Amendment in bright red lettering as your signature line? Is it there to remind everyone on the forum what our right actually is? If this is the reason, and you are staunchly behind it, could you then please tell me why you throw your money at candidates who will regulate a right, not just any right, but the only one that states, "... shall NOT be infringed."?