Do you pay attention to the signs? Follow the law?

cluznar said:
Time to start allowing Concealed Carry in a lot more places. Why stop the good people from carrying when criminals could care less about signs? We need CCW permits which are good in all 50 states also. Lets get with it, time for good people to stop being punished about carrying, they went thru an FBI check. Punish the criminals.

:dirol:
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Instead of getting on the bandwagon to get all carry permits valid in all States what we need is to get rid of the "permit" system altogether State by State because that permit IS the very infringement referred to in "shall not be infringed" since it is the government in charge of who is.. and more importantly... who isn't! given permission (a "permit" is "permission" and he who gives can just as easily take away) and go back to Constitutional carry where "shall not be infringed" means no one needs a permit of any kind to carry a gun of any kind in any manner they wish.

And instead of gun control laws how about we come up with effective criminal control laws?
 
Stan45 said:
jcreek statment was, "If one day someone does happen to notice I'm carrying and asks me to leave id be more than happy to take my business elsewhere and never return."

How is that against the law? Quote chapter and verse of Florida Law
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Read more carefully. That wasn't the statement SGB was replying to. Notice the bold text on the sentence before that? THAT'S the sentence he was replying to. It read, "If the [sic] ask you to leave you must do so or risk being charged with trespassing but no weapons charges will ensue." You do risk being charged with trespassing if you refuse to leave, as jcreek said, but SGB is pointing out that it will be more serious than that. Armed trespass is a far more serious charge, and since you would be armed at the time you are refusing to leave....... Well, you get the picture. It wouldn't be just a simple trespass charge.
 
Axeanda45 said:
*Sigh*

The tired "no shirt/shoes/infinity" argument is about the Health of the "public" that was INVITED into the property.... Please, you know-it-alls, explain HOW my carrying an inanimate object that emits no germs and harms NO-ONE can be harmful to the publics HEALTH?

You have in the past (and now continue) to say that if a Person carries a firearm onto business property when that business has posted a sign prohibiting it, that that person carrying the firearm has "committed a crime" I submit the FACT that ANY LAW that has ANYTHING to do with firearms is UnConstitutional, and therefore NOT a valid "Law" to begin with....

The ONLY "Law" (valid/Constitutional) you could possibly "break" is refusing to leave if asked to do so, for whatever reason the owner of the property wants to use..... and that is called trespassing, not "unlawfully carrying a firearm" (which is NOT possible, according to the highest LAW of the land)
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I am going to apologize up front for what I am about to post. I just don't think that you'll "get it" without a visual aid so here goes!
Stop trying to prove your point because it is invalid so move on to something more productive.
 
Bikenut has it exactly right. The constitution provides a guarantee against your government. It does not provide you a trump to act as you will on someone's private property, thereby trampling on the legitimate rights connected to the ownership of private property. You do not have the right to be armed on private property, against the wishes of the owner of said property. In ALL 50 states and U.S. territories, a private property owner can legally deny you access or have you removed from their property for possessing a firearm, or a knife, etc. If you demure, the property owner can summon law enforcement, who will show up to enforce that right, in ALL 50 states and U.S. territories. They won't be coming to lecture the private property owner about your 2nd Amendment rights. This includes all private businesses "open to the public."

The various states have different laws with respect to the legal effect of signage. You may have reciprocity for CCW, but in some states (as has already been pointed out) you could be arrested/convicted (your firearm confiscated) for any number of things up to armed criminal trespass for wilfully ignoring that signage. At that point YOU are the criminal. Be very careful about the assumptions you make.

I also agree with Bikenut that it is hypocritical (and dishonest) to beat your chest about your right to be armed while being willing to cavalierly walk all over another person's legitimate rights of property. YOU have another right, and it is called choice; stow your weapon, or avoid such places. Last time I checked, you are under no obligation to patronize such places.
 
Lest anyone get the wrong idea, I disagree with the thought process that leads some businesses to declare themselves "no gun zones." I think they're making a mistake. But they have every right to do so on their property. I will respect their right, and not underhandedly knowingly violate their right. I will do so primarily by staying away from their business/property.
 
Timothy2001 said:
I was in a Doctors office this morning with my LCP in my back pocket and noticed the lawful sign prohibiting firearms. I thought about it a long time before going back out to my car and locking it up.

Just because the establishment has a sign doesn't make it any less likely that nutcase will walk in and start shooting up the place/ex-wife/former employer etc.

In Texas it's unlawful to carry concealed in a bar (51% rule), a number of other places or anywhere that displays a proper sign.

I often carry anyway but for some reason this time I took it back outside.

How many of you respect those laws in your state?
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In Massachusetts you actually have more legal ability to carry firearms than many other states. Firearms prohibition signs do not carry the force of law and the list if restricted places is pretty short.


Schools
Courthouses
Posted Government Buildings
Logan Airport

You also may not carry under the influence of alcohol or drugs and "under the influence" is not defined under the law but you can carry in bars and etc. The law is silent on open carry but it's not a good idea around here.....
 
It has yet to be proven by anyone, anywhere how a concealed weapon infringes in any way on someone elses "rights"..........


(open carry is iffy, because it could disrupt business if a pantywaste ninny freaks out)
 
Axeanda45 said:
It has yet to be proven by anyone, anywhere how a concealed weapon infringes in any way on someone elses "rights"..........


(open carry is iffy, because it could disrupt business if a pantywaste ninny freaks out)
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There have been many posts explaining that... but just because you will not accept the explanations does not negate their validity.

Plus... one more time... the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is binding only on the government and only the government can "infringe" upon a right. A private citizen does NOT have to follow the Constitution or the Bill of Rights on/in his own private property.

Once again let me suggest following the link below to read more about property rights...

http://www.cato.org/pubs/handbook/hb111/hb111-34.pdf

Surely you are interested enough in understanding private property rights to follow that link and read the information? All of the information? Yes?
 
Axeanda45 said:
It has yet to be proven by anyone, anywhere how a concealed weapon infringes in any way on someone elses "rights"..........


(open carry is iffy, because it could disrupt business if a pantywaste ninny freaks out)
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The right you are intruding upon is the property owner's right to usage upon his property. In many places where I hunt, I could easily cross posted lands without being observed. The fact that I am not observed would not change the fact that I had trespassed. Which is why I don't do it. I respect the legitimate rights of property of others. The solution is, stay off their property. Don't patronize their business. Then you are exercising your right without stepping on anyone else's.
 
This year in Wisconsin a Man went into an Aldi Store and shot an Armed Robber, he said that he did not see the (no weapons sign). No charges were brought against him!
 
Dan Cox said:
This year in Wisconsin a Man went into an Aldi Store and shot an Armed Robber, he said that he did not see the (no weapons sign). No charges were brought against him!
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No trespass charges were pressed by the property owner, Aldi in this case. Legally I believe they could have. I think they realized that it would have been bad for business.
 
JCliff said:
No trespass charges were pressed by the property owner, Aldi in this case. Legally I believe they could have. I think they realized that it would have been bad for business.
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That's probably the only thing that stopped them. They're pretty anti-gun.
 
Blah Blah Blah...

STILL ZERO, ZILCH, NADA proof from any of you that my carrying an inanimate object concealed infringes on anyones "Rights".

"Property" rights of others END at the soles of my feet (personal space) that area is MY "Property" NOT THEIRS, EVER! No matter where my feet happen to be...

Those of you so darn bent on shoving these false (unproven) beliefs of "Private property" down our throats with NO PROOF have UTTERLY FAILED to take into account that the clothes you wear on your body are yours and yours alone,and the exact same thing can be said about anything else you have on or about you (firearms for example here) is yours alone, and is NO-ONE elses business,period......

If my carrying a firearm somewhere is against some others property rights,then so could wearing deodorant or lip balm or pink panties......Which is absolutely stupid, so why do you insist it is any different at all when it comes to a gun? So take your idiotic claims and shove them where the sun dont shine....
 
Axeanda45 said:
Blah Blah Blah...

STILL ZERO, ZILCH, NADA proof from any of you that my carrying an inanimate object concealed infringes on anyones "Rights".

"Property" rights of others END at the soles of my feet (personal space) that area is MY "Property" NOT THEIRS, EVER! No matter where my feet happen to be...

Those of you so darn bent on shoving these false (unproven) beliefs of "Private property" down our throats with NO PROOF have UTTERLY FAILED to take into account that the clothes you wear on your body are yours and yours alone,and the exact same thing can be said about anything else you have on or about you (firearms for example here) is yours alone, and is NO-ONE elses business,period......

If my carrying a firearm somewhere is against some others property rights,then so could wearing deodorant or lip balm or pink panties......Which is absolutely stupid, so why do you insist it is any different at all when it comes to a gun? So take your idiotic claims and shove them where the sun dont shine....
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So much for polite intelligent discussion................
 
So... pointing out that none of your "arguments/writing/posts" have proven a solitary thing is unintelligent?

I have asked numerous times when this subject has arisen for PROOF of these so-called "property" rights that you speak of actually exist... And yet I have NEVER gotten a single shred of any proof whatsoever.... But, you keep posting and acting like you have somehow "won" the argument or discussion...

I simply refuse to let you get away with it, and have to get quite bold in what I write to get my point across so others arent misled by your falsehoods...
 
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