Didn't See This Posted, So Here You Have It.

[gunnerbob]

Discussion is highly encouraged, is this information useful to you? Do you agree with it or think it's malarkey? What's your opinion of Massad Ayoob or the Taurus Judge(?) the "driver" was carrying? That last last sentence isn't really pertinent but should provide some entertainment...

 

[telpinaro]

Pretty sure I've seen it here before. It goes around the social media pretty regularly.

I don't generally worry about it as I'm not required to inform and don't, but I recall watching it quite a while ago and it seemed like the thing to do if the law requires you to inform.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Massad Ayoob is a fan of forced sodomy...aka rape. I don't really care for what he has to say anymore.

I don't have to notify, so I don't. Cops haven't earned my respect, I will only be compliant to what the law says, not what the officer wants. I just want to go home safely every night, the least amount of contact with the officer the better off I am.

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

 

[NavyLCDR]

Didn't See This Posted, So Here You Have It.

I find it hard to believe you have been a member since June 2011 and have not seen that on here:
April:
http://www.usacarry.com/forums/leo-encounters/44378-tips-when-stopped-police-carrying-firearm.html

December 2013:
http://www.usacarry.com/forums/concealed-carry-discussion/41737-tips-ccw-police-stop.html

Discussion is highly encouraged, is this information useful to you? Do you agree with it or think it's malarkey?

My vote is for malarkey, my reply to one of the other threads started with that video still holds:

For me, the risk to my personal safety and the safety of others is not worth it to "establish 'good upfront grounds'" and "show them how 'honest and open' I am". When I tell the officer about my gun at first opportunity I am extending to that officer an invitation to seize my gun temporarily "for officer safety", to frisk me for other weapons, and to search the area of my vehicle from which I might readily obtain another weapon - all without requiring my consent. Most officers won't be tempted and won't accept that offer, but a minority will - and just like the officer doesn't know what my intentions are, I don't know what the officer's intentions are. The safest place for my gun is in the holster with nobody handling it, and the greatest chance of it staying in the holster without being handled is if the officer does not know about it when he is not required to know about it by law.

Second, the immediate and voluntary waiving at the first opportunity of my 4th Amendment (and Washington State Constitution) rights to be secure in my personal property and papers is also not worth it. If the officer is of the type that will want to take my gun "for officer safety" you can bet that they will also be the type that will run the serial number of the gun. In Washington the Department of Licensing maintains a database of handguns purchased from FFLs and who purchased them. It is likely that the gun I am carrying will not match my name because it was purchased in a private transaction. That same type of officer is likely to get a bee in his bun when the DOL tells him that my gun was purchased by someone else from an FFL - even though I am now the person in 100% legal possession of it.

The risk to everyone's safety, the waiving of my rights at first sight of a government official, and the potential and irrelevant issues that I might raise by telling the officer about my permit and gun are just not worth the "butt kissing" value of such action. Especially when I do things like signal the officer that I see their lights by turning on my hazard flashers, actively look for and pull over in the safest place for the officer, have my Driver's License in hand, my window rolled down, the hand with the Driver's License slightly out the window with the Driver's License on plain display. Engine and radio turned off, interior dome light on if at night, my free hand on the steering wheel. The folder with my insurance and registration will be on my lap. I will greet the officer friendly and professionally using "sir and officer". I won't argue with what the officer is wanting to cite me for. I will give the officer a polite and professional "good bye" whether or not they give me a ticket. If that isn't enough to "endear" myself to the officer, then telling them about my gun and showing a firearms permit - which is introducing irrelevant information for the officer to process - isn't likely to influence them that much more.

If the officer wants to know about my gun, and if it matters that much to an officer whether or not I have a gun - all they have to do is take 2 seconds to ask me.

What's your opinion of Massad Ayoob

He was a cop. He is still loyal to the thin blue line. He will defend police officers' first, sometimes to the detriment of citizens' rights.

or the Taurus Judge(?) the "driver" was carrying?

I've owned one. It was fun to shoot as a novelty, but beyond 5 yards I wouldn't count on it for self-protection.

 

[Eidolon]

I've had a chance to have a couple of conversations with Massad Ayoob. He's never given me the impression that he is against citizen's rights I disagree with him on this point but on the whole his advice has been pretty sound.

 

[Deanimator]

I've had a chance to have a couple of conversations with Massad Ayoob. He's never given me the impression that he is against citizen's rights I disagree with him on this point but on the whole his advice has been pretty sound.

He's a cop, and with vanishingly few exceptions, cops support what other cops do to citizens, without regard to the facts.

That having been said, his comments on situations NOT involving citizen/cop interactions are generally quite sensible.

Anybody waiting to see a cop take a citizen's side against other cops, even in the case of the beating of the Chicago barmaid or the shooting of the Hispanic paper delivery woman by the LAPD, is more likely to see the Ayatollah Khamenei open up a chain of chitlin' joints before that happens.

 

[MDT]

I live a "must disclose" state and teach "official contact" procedures. Mas is spot on with his information. This video is as complete as you can make it to be applicable to the bulk of viewers. He tries to illustrate the motivations from the "official side" to explain why some procedures are in place. My state's CHL instructor training gave us this same information. If the info does not pertain to your situation, no big deal. As a former student of Ayoob, I KNOW he DOES believe in citizen's rights.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using USA Carry mobile app

 

[NavyLCDR]

Mas is spot on with his information. This video is as complete as you can make it to be applicable to the bulk of viewers in place.

Only 10 states require notification, so the video does not contain complete information pertinent to most carriers. In 40 states the citizen has the right to remain silent regarding their firearm and I don't believe that is included in the video, I will have to watch it again.

 

[BluesStringer]

As a former student of Ayoob, I KNOW he DOES believe in citizen's rights.

And as a formerly frequent consumer of both his web writings and video instruction, and had to boycott any further patronage because of his support for cops in NM who committed grotesque anal abuse of a fully innocent citizen, I know you're wrong.

From one of the threads Navy linked to above, this:

I would have agreed with the "well respected" part too before the 11th of this month when he Link Removed every excuse imaginable to support a couple of sadistic pigs in NM who put a man through 14 hours of anal torture while looking for drugs that they had no conceivable probable cause to even search the "regular" way for in the first place.

Just like I will never respect and/or trust someone who tells me that the 2nd Amendment is obsolete or that the rights it protects should be converted to privileges, I will never respect and/or trust Massad Ayoob after that blog-post either. Not even if he said he wanted to put you through that kind of anal torture would I concede his authority to do so, Johnny. And not even if you spoke up in support of denying Ayoob's 2nd Amendment rights or converting only his to "privileges" would I accept it as right, proper or legal. Even those with whom I vehemently disagree maintain their rights with me, while you and Ayoob think that either the "war on drugs" or some inexperienced lady at a gun show are all that's needed to justify the denial of rights to everybody else.

Such authoritarian attitudes are not worthy of respect in a free country, and every free person should be made aware of those who hold them. Condemnation for those attitudes should be the only response by free people when exposed to them.

Obviously there's some context missing from the "Johnny" I was replying to, but otherwise, read the link there (if you haven't already) and then tell us how you "know" that Ayoob "...DOES believe in citizen's rights."

You've got a damned tough row to hoe if you think the authors of the 4th Amendment ever contemplated happening to any citizen what happened to that NM citizen that Mas Ayoob made every conceivable twist of logic to justify.

Blues

 

[Deanimator]

As a former student of Ayoob, I KNOW he DOES believe in citizen's rights.

Well, I'll say he does up to a point... the point where the DESIRES of a cop diverge from the RIGHTS of a non-criminal citizen.

Unfortunately, WAY too many cops are incapable of (or unwilling to) recognize that what a cop WANTS doesn't trump what the law DEMANDS.

The truth is that I've come to expect that as the norm in cops.

That doesn't prevent me from taking away the useful information that Ayoob provides. It just makes me take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Eidolon]

Interesting, there a quite a few forums that Massad Ayoob participates in but not this one.

Things that make you go hmmmm?

 

[BluesStringer]

Interesting, there a quite a few forums that Massad Ayoob participates in but not this one.

Things that make you go hmmmm?

Nope, things that make me go good!

 

[Deanimator]

Interesting, there a quite a few forums that Massad Ayoob participates in but not this one.

Things that make you go hmmmm?

I regularly read his feature in "Combat Handguns".

If you read it with the understanding that he's ALWAYS going to take the cops' side, there's useful information there.

I'd read a book on armor tactics written by Michael Wittmann. I wouldn't take seriously a syllable he'd written on politics, culture or religion.

In both cases it's a "consider the source" situation.

 

[Eidolon]

Whatever Massad Ayoob's personal philosophy may be this is good advice. I look at this video and say "This makes perfect sense I will do this." I don't look at this video and think of anal torture although the does seem to be all that some here ever think about (Well. that and making dild0 jokes in one thread while professing Christ in another)

 

[BluesStringer]

[video=BS Anal Torture Advocate Giving Advice That Can Be Had From Multiple Reliable Sources That DON'T Advocate For Anal Torturers[/video]

I don't look at this video and think of anal torture although the does seem to be all that some here ever think about

I read every word of two blog posts by Ayoob in which he went through more extra-constitutional and sadistic departures from logic to justify the 14 hour ordeal that 2 NM pigs put a US citizen through, that it is only because of his own words that all I can think about is anal torture whenever someone posts his name here.

(Well. that and making dild0 jokes in one thread while professing Christ in another)

None of us are the Christians that we aspire to be. If you are as devout, faithful and knowledgeable as you claim to be, you should know that better than anybody here.

I don't make a habit of responding to heretics who use their so-called faith as points of competition to say, "I'm a better Christian than you!" It's only because I believe that generally you are one of the knowledgeable and faithful, but make no mistake, these posts taking pot-shots at my faith are no better in the eyes of God than me making an off-color joke here and there.

"The hypocrite with his mouth destroys his neighbor, But through knowledge the righteous will be delivered." (Proverbs 11:9)

 

[Eidolon]

, these posts taking pot-shots at my faith

I'm not taking pot shots at your faith I'm taking pot shots at your walk

 

[telpinaro]

Might be of interest... a recent email from Massad Ayoob:

A THOUGHT ON THE FOURTH OF JULY
Posted: 03 Jul 2014 06:38 PM PDT
As we celebrate Independence Day, we need to remember among other things not to take liberties with our liberties.

Open carry – that is, carrying or wearing a visible firearm out and about in public – has become a hot topic on both sides of the gun debate. On our side, there are some who claim “a right not exercised is a right that will wither away.” In recent years, it has turned out otherwise. Ostentatious open carry led to it being banned by the state legislature in California. More recently, a series of store and restaurant chains, most recently Target, have come out and asked customers not to come there armed with firearms. These have been direct results of AR15s, AK47 clones, etc. being carried in their premises for no reason other than “because I can.”

My own position is middle of the road. I would like to see the open carry of a handgun made legal in all fifty states without a permit, with the practice prohibited to convicted felons, those adjudicated mentally ill, and the like. First, legal open carry prevents arrest of concealed carry permit holders whose gun becomes visible when the wind blows their coat open. Second, when someone becomes a stalking victim or the target of death threats overnight, they don’t have time to wait for the bureaucracy to take weeks or months to process a concealed carry permit.

However, a growing majority of gun owners – including me – are fed up with clowns who sling a rifle over one shoulder, a camcorder over the other, and go out to show off and maybe taunt a policeman or two. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of these people weren’t false-flag plants from the other side. Not all of them are, though.

It’s self-delusional to think that you’ll spread a positive Second Amendment image by frightening people already made leery of armed people in public by news reports of atrocities like Sandy Hook. The gay rights movement didn’t make the strides it did by having its members have sex with each other in Starbucks, and wandering into a coffee shop or department store with a loaded military style rifle won’t make positive strides for gun owners’ civil rights. A small handful of attention whores have done huge damage to the vast majority of responsible gun owners.

Enjoy the Fourth. I intend to be setting off some fireworks myself, but on the range. Hope you get some fun time for the holiday weekend as well.

I'll admit, it's a step up from most of the "only the carry that I approve of should be legal" crowd. And I do find the open carriers who open carry for the purpose of starting a confrontation (not talking demonstrations or those who like OCing long guns here, just specifically those very few youtubers who are solely out to provoke cops just for their three minutes of fame) annoying. But still. Assign blame where it belongs. MDA, not those with long guns. Nobody cared about those guys.

Not gonna analyze the whole thing... Gotta get the kid to bed, and with that quote in here, this post is already long enough.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Still don't care what a sodomy fan thinks.

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

 

[BluesStringer]

I'm not taking pot shots at your faith I'm taking pot shots at your walk

You know nothing of my walk. Posting on a gun forum about almost exclusively earthly, political concerns, is not intended to speak to my walk, and to the extent that I even speak of it at all, speaking isn't walking. Walking is a meat-world endeavor which is between me, the path I set for myself, and Jesus, and it isn't your place to judge it with such limited, no, non-existent real knowledge in any way, shape, manner or form.

Would it do any good at all to just politely ask you to leave me alone? Please?

Blues

 

[NavyLCDR]

I look at this video and say "This makes perfect sense I will do this."

And I look at the video in the OP and say, "It makes no sense at all for me to tell a police officer during a traffic stop about my CPL and my gun when I am not required to by law."