Did he say 46 millon need health care?

[Oregon Vet]

One study pegged the number of people who were uninsured for the entire year at 31 million, while another put it even lower, at 21 million.

Sure a LOT less than Obama keeps spouting with his 46 million. BUT, keep reading, it is a LOT lower!

Another problem is:In addition, some of the 46 million could theoretically afford health coverage, but chose not to purchase any. In 2007, 17.6 million of the uninsured had annual incomes of more than $50,000 and 9.1 million earned more than $75,000. In fact, as Sally Pipes notes in the Top Ten Myths of American Health Care: A Citizen's Guide, those making more than $75,000 per year are part of the fastest growing segment of the uninsured population.

The Census figures also show that 18.3 million of the uninsured were under 34. Some in this age group may have simply determined that they are young and healthy and thus can do without coverage.

When all of these factors are put together, the 2003 BlueCross BlueShield study determined that 8.2 million Americans are actually without coverage for the long haul, because they are too poor to purchase health care but earn too much to qualify for government assistance. Even being without insurance still doesn't mean they won't have access to care, because federal law forbids hospitals from denying treatment to patients who show up at the emergency rooms.

Those pushing for a major government intervention in health care are distorting the 46-million statistic to boost their cause, and by disseminating it so widely without further elaboration, the media is rigging the game in their favor.

WOW, 8.2 million without health insurance right now is a LONG ways from Obama's 46 million. And people watching TV believe every word he says.

 

[jwtollett21]

whether its 46 million or 2 people. Every US citizen in the united states deserves the opportunity to be able to buy health insurance without having to worry about being denyed due to pre existing conditions. Good post though. A lot of truth in what your saying. The 46 million is a little deceiving.

 

[ronwill]

whether its 46 million or 2 people. Every US citizen in the united states deserves the opportunity to be able to buy health insurance without having to worry about being denyed due to pre existing conditions. Good post though. A lot of truth in what your saying. The 46 million is a little deceiving.

They may deserve heath care, however, the tax payer shouldn't be the one to pay for those who can't afford insurance and believe me the tax payer will pay. How long do you think government run health care will be viable? For an example look at our soon to be broke social security system. Socialized medicine is NOT the way to go.

 

[jwtollett21]

well no government intervention in this case will only worsen it.

 

[Oregon Vet]

What?

I start feeling like I am taking it in the hind end when people start using the word "DESERVE" around me. ESPECIALLY when we are talking tax dollars like ron is talking about. But, the main gist of the article isn't about people who have preexisting conditions, it is about giving everyone health insurance.

My health insurance costs ME, just "me", no family, no kids, no other people, just ME, $522.00 a month WITH a HIGH deductible. My birthday is today, I am afraid it is going to go to $600+ next month because of my birthday. I work HARD to pay for it. It ISN'T the governments job to buy MY health insurance. It is MY responsibility to buy my own.

We can pretty well do what we want in this country. That is pretty much fine with me, as long as YOU (whomever "you" may be) can pay for it.

When we have to get the government involved in shelling out the money for health insurance or whatever, then it is NOT good. Why? Because we are STEALING from the people who HAVE kept their lives in order and made sure they could afford things before taking them on. Like what? Like kids for an example.

IF we tied tubes/did vasectomies on people who couldn't afford a kid when they got pregnant, within ONE generation welfare would pretty well be gone. You want to have kids, then YOU pay for them. (the "YOU" I am talking about is NOT "you" personally, but "you" in society)

Then just about 100% of the kids born would be wanted AND planned for. The money WOULD be there to raise them with. Just think of a kid as buying a brand new car, about 4 steps ABOVE the model you CAN afford. You DON'T buy it, because you can't afford it. Same with kids. I have had people tell me having kids is a God given right. We NEED to weed THOSE people out of society. They are just dragging the whole country down.

Socialized medicine? NOPE, bad deal. You get socialized medicine and you are pretty well telling poor people society "thinks" it is OKAY to keep having kids, that they "deserve" that right.

We DO need to put a price on human lives. Here is a doper baby born and it will cost $5 million dollars to keep it alive for the 3-4 months before it dies. NO, it does NOT "deserve" the right to have that much "insurance" money spent on it before it does die.

Some people with preexisting conditions do NOT deserve the right to make taxpayers pay for "OUR" problem. Some preexisting conditions are just too expensive. And socialized medicine is WAY TOO expensive for the people who do pay for it. Who? The ones who work HARD to pay for their own. They sure don't want to pay for others too.

Rant off.

 

[gdcleanfun]

They may deserve heath care, however, the tax payer shouldn't be the one to pay for those who can't afford insurance and believe me the tax payer will pay. How long do you think government run health care will be viable? For an example look at our soon to be broke social security system. Socialized medicine is NOT the way to go.

The taxpayers pay for it now. Every county general hospital, every "free" clinic, every urgent care clinic, every state that has medical care for indigents like California's MediCal program, VA medical care, Medicare from the federal government for those 65 and up, Social Security Disibility and Social Security Insurance, all types of care like that that is government run, we, the taxpayers, pay for now.

 

[Oregon Vet]

Socialized medicine is cheaper and better for all us...??

The taxpayers pay for it now. Every county general hospital, every "free" clinic, every urgent care clinic, every state that has medical care for indigents like California's MediCal program, VA medical care, Medicare from the federal government for those 65 and up, Social Security Disibility and Social Security Insurance, all types of care like that that is government run, we, the taxpayers, pay for now.

I think most of the people who can THINK on their own understand "that". Florida is REALLY hurting with the load they pay with a really LARGE load of illegals. So is California and the other border states.

Is it going to all of the sudden get "cheaper" for the taxpayers if we pay for MILLIONS more peoples health care? How does THAT work? We are buying 10 million people gas for their cars and we start paying for 20 million peoples gasoline for their cars and it will be cheaper for me the taxpayer? Really, HOW does THAT work? I have enough problems paying for my own gasoline for my own car and my "cut" of the gas for those 10 million. My "cut" for 20 million is going to be LESS from my paycheck in taxes? What kind of math is that?

I went to see "my" doctor yesterday. It was their lunch time and they were closed but he heard me talking to one of the girls and came to the front and came out in the waiting room and talked to me about things I was wondering about concerning health care for myself.

Will health care still be that way with socialized medicine? IF I don't like him all of the sudden, I can just look up another doctor in the phone book and make an appointment to see some other doctor. Sometimes even see them THAT day. That won't change? Maybe, but somehow I doubt it. Anyone reading this thread have any experience with socialized medicine that can give me/us what it is like under socialized medicine?

Yes, something HAS to be done about our healthcare system. We ARE paying a LOT too much. Healthcare's runaway inflation has to be brought under control, but somehow, I don't think socialized medicine is the way to go.

To those who DO think it is the way to go. WHY? And, when I ask WHY? I don't mean because all those without insurance will then have health insurance.

NO, I mean: HOW will health care get BETTER for ME, someone who already HAS healthcare insurance?

 

[MNSteve]

whether its 46 million or 2 people. Every US citizen in the united states deserves the opportunity to be able to buy health insurance without having to worry about being denyed due to pre existing conditions. Good post though. A lot of truth in what your saying. The 46 million is a little deceiving.

More than a little deceiving We better start holding the feet of our elected representatives to the fire right now. More letters and e-mails.

 

[Oregon Vet]

"of our elected representatives..."

More than a little deceiving We better start holding the feet of our elected representatives to the fire right now. More letters and e-mails.

I never thought of it before. BUT... it really doesn't seem like they are "OUR" elected reps.

It is as if the crooks are electing each other to the different offices. Just about as if us taxpayers had/have NOTHING to say about it (the election).

It seems as if those in office a few days ALL OF THE SUDDEN don't care about us taxpayers anymore. It SUDDENLY turns into "POWER & GREED DISEASE" and it is so hard to try and find someone in office who hasn't caught it.

And a LARGE percentage of Americans want "these elected representatives" to "FIX" our healthcare system? Are they nuts/crazy/stupid? Must be.

It DOES need fixed. But not the way they are going about it.

The "46 million" is SCARE tactics. They really LIKE scare tactics. "LESS than ONE percent" of the population not having/doesn't have health insurance doesn't "scare" people like using "FIFTEEN PERCENT" of the population doesn't have health insurance.

Real con artists our "elected" officials are!

 

[ronwill]

The taxpayers pay for it now. Every county general hospital, every "free" clinic, every urgent care clinic, every state that has medical care for indigents like California's MediCal program, VA medical care, Medicare from the federal government for those 65 and up, Social Security Disibility and Social Security Insurance, all types of care like that that is government run, we, the taxpayers, pay for now.

Not all "free" clinics are payed for by tax payers. Some are payed for as charitable donations by corporations and the wealthy. Some doctors and interns donate some of their time to these clinics on a rotating basis. It is true that many county hospitals get stiffed on their bills because of people using the emergency room as a clinic and the tax payer picks up the tab. Now add trillions more to that tab and how much do you think the tax payer is going to pick up? The bill that just got past in committee is already priced at over $800 billion. Do you think it's going to stop there? For additional info take a look at the following:

Link Removed

 

[gdcleanfun]

I think most of the people who can THINK on their own understand "that". ...

I see no need to get worked up into an "emotional tif." Let's stick to the facts, shall we?

I was replying to your blanket generalization about people who already have insurance and who don't want to pay for others. You said, "They sure don't want to pay for others too." I was only pointing out that taxpayers are already paying for others. It's not an issue in only Florida and California. It's become an issue in many US states. It's not something we (the US) can solve overnight. For sure, it's a much larger issue, with economics and immigration problems. It's an issue which stems from 235 years of this nation's semi-open-door-border-policy history, trade agreements that foster and attempt but often do not succeed to boost failing economics elsewhere in the world, and a welfare system gone haywire,to name a few, embraced for years by this nation's leaders, liberal and conservative alike. We, and I mean US citizens, will always pay for others who are less fortunate, for their health care at county general hospitals and free clinics, for welfare systems, for TVA programs, for CCC programs, for all kinds of other programs that help support the less fortunate, via the taxes we pay from our hard-earned incomes. C'est la vie! So, rather than belly aching, have you any suggestions to change/fix this? Can you implement your changes?

 

[Oregon Vet]

So, rather than belly aching, have you any suggestions to change/fix this? Can you implement your changes?

First suggestion is to sterilize people who can't afford kids. Sure, they have a right to "life", but they don't have a/the right to make the working part of society keep paying for their kids.

Second, if you haven't worked for the last 3 1/2 years of the last 4, then you don't get to vote. Then only people paying taxes would get to vote on where those taxes go. You want to vote? Find a job and WORK so you pay taxes.

Get out of countries we don't need to be in. I played over in Asia in our first Vietnam, I'm glad I'm not over there playing in our second Vietnam. Let's HOPE those countries turn out better than we did with our "first" one.

Lock the borders. For "real".

Implement? Of course not. I wouldn't have any customers then to buy all the Cadillac SUV's, Lincoln Navigator's and Hummer's I have for sale.

Oh, it's ALL about the MONEY. With EVERYONE. Anyone tries to say otherwise is a liar.

I would say it is just about impossible to live without money. When I say "money", I mean ANYTHING it can buy also. People in 3rd world countries do pretty well at it. They aren't accomplishing anything except surviving though. And if THAT is all a person does, then we get back to;"WHY are we here?" Just to live and die? That's pretty funny.

No, no, NO, wait... we are here because... Oh, I'm tired of writing, just make up YOUR OWN excuse of why we are here.

Choose religion, LOTS of people seem to use something having to do with a religion as the reason. AND, there ARE LOTS of "RELIGIONS" around. Choose whichever one you want. It doesn't matter which one you choose, since the one you choose, whomever you are, it is the ONLY true/correct one!!!

There, I even gave you (whomever wishs to believe in a religion) a place to start. Oh, don't know which one to choose? Here is a list then, with a "guesstimate" of the number "practicing" that religion:

"(Sizes shown are approximate estimates, and are here mainly for the purpose of ordering the groups, not providing a definitive number. This list is sociological/statistical in perspective.)

1. Christianity: 2.1 billion
2. Islam: 1.5 billion
3. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
4. Hinduism: 900 million
5. Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
6. Buddhism: 376 million
7. primal-indigenous: 300 million
8. African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
9. Sikhism: 23 million
10. Juche: 19 million
11. Spiritism: 15 million
12. Judaism: 14 million
13. Baha'i: 7 million
14. Jainism: 4.2 million
15. Shinto: 4 million
16. Cao Dai: 4 million
17. Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
18. Tenrikyo: 2 million
19. Neo-Paganism: 1 million
20. Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
21. Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
22. Scientology: 500 thousand"

From World Religions Religion Statistics Geography Church Statistics

And SMILE. Everyone should smile, because Obama is going to FIX EVERYTHING for us!!

 

[HK4U]

I think I deserve a new car so I think the government should make others buy it for me. I deserve a new house so taxpayers owe it to me. I deserve a million dollars so lets raise taxes and give it to me and by the way I deserve to be supported for the rest of my life so that I do not have to work. I deserve I deserve I deserve. I want my Obama money. Hey do I sound like a liberal?

 

[Ektarr]

whether its 46 million or 2 people. Every US citizen in the united states deserves the opportunity to be able to buy health insurance without having to worry about being denyed due to pre existing conditions. Good post though. A lot of truth in what your saying. The 46 million is a little deceiving.

Hiya. I have a question for you. If you were in the market for a car, and you found one you pretty much liked but you found out it needed a new cylinder head, would you buy it? Most people wouldn't, with the rationale that it doesn't make sense to "buy a problem" when there are so many other options available. Same is true with Insurance Companies...you're asking them to take on a known problem against which no premiums have been paid! That's a little unfair, don't you think? How about I find out I have incurable brain cancer, I have 2 weeks to live, and I run out and buy a 100-million dollar life insurance policy? Should they have to take the policy?? It's the same thing, in my view. I agree with the bulk of what you wrote:

Every US citizen in the united states deserves the opportunity to be able to buy health insurance

I just disagree that the Insurance Company should bear the burden of taking on a known problem. They should, however, have to stand up and pay the piper once the condition is diagnosed for their insured!! Selling a guy out just because he has a major issue that they have to pay against is patently unfair.

One man's opinion...

 

[Oregon Vet]

You forgot the heated swimming pool with all the eye candy playing in it. All available for YOU, of course, no charge. All virgins too. YES!! We ALL deserve EVERYTHING FREE!!!

You sound like you think Obama is really FIXING the countries problems.

We need to CUT BACK, ... NOT spend more money. Would someone PLEASE tell Obama that?

 

[gdcleanfun]

First suggestion is to sterilize people who can't afford kids. Sure, they have a right to "life", but they don't have a/the right to make the working part of society keep paying for their kids.

Second, if you haven't worked for the last 3 1/2 years of the last 4, then you don't get to vote. Then only people paying taxes would get to vote on where those taxes go. You want to vote? Find a job and WORK so you pay taxes.

Get out of countries we don't need to be in. I played over in Asia in our first Vietnam, I'm glad I'm not over there playing in our second Vietnam. Let's HOPE those countries turn out better than we did with our "first" one.

Lock the borders. For "real".

Implement? Of course not. I wouldn't have any customers then to buy all the Cadillac SUV's, Lincoln Navigator's and Hummer's I have for sale.

Oh, it's ALL about the MONEY. With EVERYONE. Anyone tries to say otherwise is a liar.

I would say it is just about impossible to live without money. When I say "money", I mean ANYTHING it can buy also. People in 3rd world countries do pretty well at it. They aren't accomplishing anything except surviving though. And if THAT is all a person does, then we get back to;"WHY are we here?" Just to live and die? That's pretty funny.

No, no, NO, wait... we are here because... Oh, I'm tired of writing, just make up YOUR OWN excuse of why we are here.

Choose religion, LOTS of people seem to use something having to do with a religion as the reason. AND, there ARE LOTS of "RELIGIONS" around. Choose whichever one you want. It doesn't matter which one you choose, since the one you choose, whomever you are, it is the ONLY true/correct one!!!

There, I even gave you (whomever wishs to believe in a religion) a place to start. Oh, don't know which one to choose? Here is a list then, with a "guesstimate" of the number "practicing" that religion:

"(Sizes shown are approximate estimates, and are here mainly for the purpose of ordering the groups, not providing a definitive number. This list is sociological/statistical in perspective.)

1. Christianity: 2.1 billion
2. Islam: 1.5 billion
3. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
4. Hinduism: 900 million
5. Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
6. Buddhism: 376 million
7. primal-indigenous: 300 million
8. African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
9. Sikhism: 23 million
10. Juche: 19 million
11. Spiritism: 15 million
12. Judaism: 14 million
13. Baha'i: 7 million
14. Jainism: 4.2 million
15. Shinto: 4 million
16. Cao Dai: 4 million
17. Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
18. Tenrikyo: 2 million
19. Neo-Paganism: 1 million
20. Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
21. Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
22. Scientology: 500 thousand"

From World Religions Religion Statistics Geography Church Statistics

And SMILE. Everyone should smile, because Obama is going to FIX EVERYTHING for us!!

Now, that first one really make me chuckle!!! Involuntary Sterilization was actually practiced during a dark period of US history. It was argued that some of the scourge of the earth designated to be sterilized were people identified as "shiftless, ignorant and worthless class of anti-social whites of the south." Link Removed The Supreme Court agreed; in 1927, Buck v Bell, it upheld the law allowing sterilization. "Writing for the majority, Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., asserted that "“three generations of imbeciles are enough.” He wrote, "It is better for all the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind."" "In the 50 years after Buck v. Bell, more than 60,000 men, women and children were sterilized without their consent: more ]women than men and twice as many black women as white. Sterilizations [continued to occur] into the 1970s in some states ..." See the cite for all quoted material.

I guess this is the kind of practice you think that we, as a nation, should return to?

Hey everyone, don't shoot the messenger, those were not my words and I'm sorry if this offends anyone sense of decency. I happen to think it's an abhorrent practice that is still practiced in parts of the world!

I agree that not a one of your solutions are ever going to be implemented. So, your solutions are just as good as my solutions, they are all just opinions, and we (both you and I) are still just belly aching. Isn't it fun? :lol: C'est la vie.

 

[Oregon Vet]

I see the editing isn't working on here with my Firefox again. Rats!
YES, it is just talk, talk, TALK. It shouldn't make ANYONE get excited. You seem to THINK that when I use CAPS that I am excited. Really? WHY?
I'm lazy, MUCH easier than highlighting, clicking on bold or italics and then ... yada yada yada.
Go read this one:
http://www.childtrendsdatabank.org/pdf/75_PDF.pdf
Pretty good reading about single women/parents etc.
5.3% in 1960 vs 36.8% in 2005. Ouch!

A LOT of bastards running around out there, and the poor kids are stuck with that name until they die. What a drag for them that their parents didn't care.

 

[gdcleanfun]

I see the editing isn't working on here with my Firefox again. Rats!
YES, it is just talk, talk, TALK. It shouldn't make ANYONE get excited. You seem to THINK that when I use CAPS that I am excited. Really? WHY?
I'm lazy, MUCH easier than highlighting, clicking on bold or italics and then ... yada yada yada.
Go read this one:
http://www.childtrendsdatabank.org/pdf/75_PDF.pdf
Pretty good reading about single women/parents etc.
5.3% in 1960 vs 36.8% in 2005. Ouch!

A LOT of bastards running around out there, and the poor kids are stuck with that name until they die. What a drag for them that their parents didn't care.

Are you trying to place blame onto the children for something their parents did?

 

[Oregon Vet]

Are you trying to place blame onto the children for something their parents did?

Where in the world do you read THAT into what I said? When a kids parents AREN'T married when the kid is born, then the kid is a bastard. That is just a technical FACT. The blame lies with the parents, and THEM only. How in the world could it be the kids fault?

Over 30% of the kids born now are bastards vs less than 6% in 1960.

Sure doesn't say anything GOOD about over 30% of the parents these days, does it.

I'm sure glad Mom & Dad were married when I was born and still were to each other until Dad said the hell with it and died a couple years ago when his sight started to go. It was like our family was in a race to die. Three years ago Dick/cancer(60, older brother by 14 months), two years ago Dad (87, being a NAZI P.O.W. for 14 months when he jumped as a Pathfinder a few hours before DDay started and then getting caught by the Nazi's a short time later didn't help, I'm sure), last year Janet (oldest sister 54)/cancer.

 

[PascalFleischman]

well no government intervention in this case will only worsen it.

The government intervention is why we're in this supposed "crisis" anyway. More government never cured a damn thing.