Couple of Massachusetts LTC questions


hogwylde

hogwylde

New member
I am in the beginning processes of getting my CCW permit and am taking the safety course this Sunday. Upon completion of the course, I know that I have to present my certificate and $100 to process my application with the Chief of Police (which I think is bogus).

About 10-15 years ago, I was given a .357 as a gift from my father and the "best" I could get was an FID card. But we now have a different police chief and I am told that my town is now one of the easiest to get a CCW permit (my FID expired). I know a lot of my questions will be answered at the safety course but I am excited about this....

What happens when it's time to renew my permit and we have a DIFFERENT police chief who may have a different view from the previous chief? Can they deny my renewal? I have a spotless record with no felonies or misdemeanors so what reason could the chief have to deny me my permit? Do I need to have a "valid reason" to be wanting a CCW? Do they ask "WHY do you want a CCW?"
 

They do ask on the application, your reasons for seeking a permit. I just wrote all lawful purposes and waited to elaborate if they asked for more info. If theyask for more in the interview, "to become a good shooter so that I can protect my life." Don't know how renewals go, as I haven't done that yet. Good luck. :)
 
They absolutely ask why you want an LTC. The chief can deny an LTC application based on suitability. Suitability is not defined by law so that means the chief can deny you for any reason they want if they feel that you're not suitable. The answer you give can greatly affect your application. If you say you want a license for hunting your LTC can be restricted to hunting thereby eliminating concealed carry. If you are in a green town (easy town) an answer of all lawful purposes may cut it but it's not a bad idea to elaborate. Think of things that are applicable in your life such as a business owner handling large amounts of cash or etc. I'm sure you also know that you are committing a felony if you're still in possession of that .357 without an LTC so keep that quiet. If you want to PM me with your exact town I may be able to give you more info.....
 
Jbrl and Rich:

Hopefully I won't bore you with a long drawn out story but this is how I feel and have nothing to hide. So this is my story:

About 15 years ago, I got caught up in a sting operation (to be explained later) where I was robbed. I work for the public (in their homes)and accidentally left my truck unlocked and was cleaned out. I had nothing left. But I am of the mindset that just because you leave yourself vulnerable, that is no reason for someone to take advantage of you and I was pissed. I consider myself to be a bright person and went out to catch the perp with the only weapon being my HEAD.....and I didn't even know who did it. I didn't know if the perp was male, female, black, white, hispanic or other. But I caught him. I did the leg work and the Holyoke police arrested him. I had a plan that the PD agreed to go along with it and supplied 7 un-marked cars to back me up. I have to say, I was on an absolute HIGH knowing I got my things back by simply out-smarting this dumbass and getting my things back within 10 hours of the robbery.

Now is when my father steps in. My father does not mess around especially when it comes to family and he told me that since I drive around in a van with a company name on it and my name embroidered on my shirt, he deemed me a marked man and told me to do whatever was necessary to own a gun. So I did. I got my FID and he sent me a blue S&W .357 with a 6" barrel. A beautiful piece! Time went on and I had a son and although I know there's safety features I could implement, I just didn't feel comfortable having a gun in the house so I sold it to a dealer and let my FID expire. Much to my regret.

Having a gun and being told what I can do with it is like owning a car and being told when, where and how you can go. I hated only being allowed to take it to a range or whatever. I am a law abiding, tax paying citizen who doesn't even have so much as a misdemeanor and to be treated like a 2nd class citizen pissed me off. Oops! I am wrong. I did get a parking ticket 15 years ago.

So after all this babbling, this is where I am at. I want to own a gun. I want to be able to protect myself and my family and I want to carry legally and don't think I should need special (personal) permission from the police chief to do so.

And the crazy part is this. I am such a law abiding citizen with a level head, that I start to think about the possible repercussions and the RESPONSIBILITIES and LIABILITIES of carrying that I've talked myself out of it many times. But I refuse to give up because I know I will be responsible carrying.

Thanks for listening to my story. BTW: I live in Westfield, MA
 
If you possessed the .357 with an FID card you were in violation of the law. If your father shipped that gun to you he violated the law. If he shipped it from out of state and you used it for anything other than a recreational shooting gun you violated the law. I understand how you feel about your rights but what you feel and what the law says are two different things. Your choices are to follow the law or lobby to change it. Good luck with the latter in Massachusetts. You have to be really careful in Mass. Westfield is a green town so if you have no criminal record you should be good to go.
 
Rich_S said:
If you possessed the .357 with an FID card you were in violation of the law. If your father shipped that gun to you he violated the law. If he shipped it from out of state and you used it for anything other than a recreational shooting gun you violated the law. I understand how you feel about your rights but what you feel and what the law says are two different things. Your choices are to follow the law or lobby to change it. Good luck with the latter in Massachusetts. You have to be really careful in Mass. Westfield is a green town so if you have no criminal record you should be good to go.
Click to expand...

My father bought the .357 at a gun shop out of state and had it shipped to a gun shop in West Springfield and I picked it up after getting my FID.
 
I routinely shot the is gun with no permit so I am assuming I'll be fine in getting my LTC. ;o)

Center gun of turret 3 (aft turret) was mine.

Uss_iowa_bb-61_pr.jpg
 
Got my Firearm Safety Certificate today and now all I have to do is meet with the Chief. But here's how my day was and my INCREDIBLE impression of Massachusetts "safety concerns"

My day went like this:

I showed up early and slowly the cars started to pile in and in the end there were 20 people, 14 of which that were UNDER the age of 21 (minimum age for LTC but can have FID at 16). I thought it was cool that young men were showing an interest; then they started to ask questions:

1. Can I have an FID with an active restraining order for Asault and Battery? (Answer is no and you are banned for LIFE)

2. Can I have an FID card with a possession of narcotics charge pending? (Answer is no and get an attorney)

As the class started and the passing around of guns eventually began, these punks basically took it all as a joke thinking they were "thug money". Between sling shotting the slides on the semi autos and trying to try to flip the revolvers one handed to close the cylinder, to two guys falling asleep, it all pissed me off because it is going to be THESE guys that end up killing some innocent bystander whether it's me or my family!. Don't ask me why the instructor did not kick them out.

The class goes on and towards the end of the class the instructor says how it is now time for the test. As I'm sitting there going through everything the instructor said in my head, I am feeling confident I can pass as I was 1 of 6 people who actually paid attention when MUCH to my surprise, the teacher pulls out the exam and goes over it with us and gave us all the answers before giving the tests to us!!

The bottom line was this class was a farce and nothing more than a formality. Anybody who has NEVER held a gun and had basic common sense could pass this test. It was a waste of 8 hours but I'm at least one step away from getting my LTC. I'll just start by taking a safety course on my own at S&W who will at least give me 4 hours of one on one training FREE of charge whther it be with my own gun or one of theirs that I'd like to try..

Covering state/federal laws was the most interesting TODAY though. Besides the two that I told you about already, how about these Massachusetts laws (per the instructor who I realize don't know everything).

Per INSTRUCTOR:

You CAN'T have large capacity guns in Massachusetts unless the gun was built PRE 1998.

You CAN have a POST 1998 large capacity gun as long as the magazine was bought in a different state. Um...I guess I have to shop 15 minutes further down the road in CT? Ok!

While in your home, you are required to keep it unloaded and locked up unless it is in your direct control (makes sense so far). But it is considered to be in your direct control regardless of where the gun is in relation to you even if the gun is on the 3rd floor and you're in the basement. How is that DIRECT control? You are only in violation if you exit the house and leave the gun in the house.

And now the funny part:

Most of those kids high tailed it as soon as they got their certificates (all proud and ****) but us 6 adults stayed and continued to ask questions after the class as I READ the certificate. All was fine and dandy until I noticed and asked, "Aren't you supposed to sign these?" The bottom line is he forgot to sign them and the certificates the punks have are USELESS now. They just wasted their day.....which is FINE with me! I feel safer! ;o)
 
hogwylde said:
Got my Firearm Safety Certificate today and now all I have to do is meet with the Chief. But here's how my day was and my INCREDIBLE impression of Massachusetts "safety concerns"

My day went like this:

I showed up early and slowly the cars started to pile in and in the end there were 20 people, 14 of which that were UNDER the age of 21 (minimum age for LTC but can have FID at 16). I thought it was cool that young men were showing an interest; then they started to ask questions:

1. Can I have an FID with an active restraining order for Asault and Battery? (Answer is no and you are banned for LIFE)

2. Can I have an FID card with a possession of narcotics charge pending? (Answer is no and get an attorney)

As the class started and the passing around of guns eventually began, these punks basically took it all as a joke thinking they were "thug money". Between sling shotting the slides on the semi autos and trying to try to flip the revolvers one handed to close the cylinder, to two guys falling asleep, it all pissed me off because it is going to be THESE guys that end up killing some innocent bystander whether it's me or my family!. Don't ask me why the instructor did not kick them out.

The class goes on and towards the end of the class the instructor says how it is now time for the test. As I'm sitting there going through everything the instructor said in my head, I am feeling confident I can pass as I was 1 of 6 people who actually paid attention when MUCH to my surprise, the teacher pulls out the exam and goes over it with us and gave us all the answers before giving the tests to us!!

The bottom line was this class was a farce and nothing more than a formality. Anybody who has NEVER held a gun and had basic common sense could pass this test. It was a waste of 8 hours but I'm at least one step away from getting my LTC. I'll just start by taking a safety course on my own at S&W who will at least give me 4 hours of one on one training FREE of charge whther it be with my own gun or one of theirs that I'd like to try..

Covering state/federal laws was the most interesting TODAY though. Besides the two that I told you about already, how about these Massachusetts laws (per the instructor who I realize don't know everything).

Per INSTRUCTOR:

You CAN'T have large capacity guns in Massachusetts unless the gun was built PRE 1998.

You CAN have a POST 1998 large capacity gun as long as the magazine was bought in a different state. Um...I guess I have to shop 15 minutes further down the road in CT? Ok!

While in your home, you are required to keep it unloaded and locked up unless it is in your direct control (makes sense so far). But it is considered to be in your direct control regardless of where the gun is in relation to you even if the gun is on the 3rd floor and you're in the basement. How is that DIRECT control? You are only in violation if you exit the house and leave the gun in the house.

And now the funny part:

Most of those kids high tailed it as soon as they got their certificates (all proud and ****) but us 6 adults stayed and continued to ask questions after the class as I READ the certificate. All was fine and dandy until I noticed and asked, "Aren't you supposed to sign these?" The bottom line is he forgot to sign them and the certificates the punks have are USELESS now. They just wasted their day.....which is FINE with me! I feel safer! ;o)
Click to expand...

It sounds like you took NRA basic pistol. You could have taken NRA home firearms safety which is a four hour class with no exam and also meets the statuatory requirement. So much fail here....where to begin???

You CAN'T have large capacity guns in Massachusetts unless the gun was built PRE 1998.

Not so much. I have an M&P. It's large capacity. The M&P semis didn't exist prior to 1998 and it's perfectly legal. The year he's thinking of is also 1994. You can't have an assault weapon in Mass unless it was built prior to 9-13-94. Of course you understand what makes a firearm an assault weapon-right?


You CAN have a POST 1998 large capacity gun as long as the magazine was bought in a different state. Um...I guess I have to shop 15 minutes further down the road in CT? Ok!

Handguns must be transferred in your state of residency per federal law. Pre-ban mags can be purchased anywhere. It's often hard to prove the date they were manufactured anyway. If you buy a brand new mag that has a greater than 10 round capacity in CT and bring it into Mass you are now a felon. A post 1998 large capacity gun? Umm- that term isn't relevant and doesn't exist.


While in your home, you are required to keep it unloaded and locked up unless it is in your direct control (makes sense so far). But it is considered to be in your direct control regardless of where the gun is in relation to you even if the gun is on the 3rd floor and you're in the basement. How is that DIRECT control? You are only in violation if you exit the house and leave the gun in the house.

The law states that in the home firearms must be stored in a locked container or fitted with a tamper resistant mechanical locking device unless under your direct control. Firearms can be stored loaded. Direct control is not defined under the law. Case law shows us that unless the firearm is being carried on your person it will be considered not under your direct control, you can be charged with a storage violation, and you will be convicted.

Tell me what he told you about transportation and carry. It sounds like you're on your way to multiple felonies based on what you have learned. That instructor is a joke.
 
Rich, explain this to me then and I ask because I am trying to decipher Massachusetts laws just like many or all of us and not get into a pissing match.

Today I had a job at a Massachusetts Police Barracks and naturally got to talking to a Trooper about my questions regarding the laws. Not that I want or need a large capacity magazine but was merely curious to know the law and this State Trooper ALSO told me that it was perfectly LEGAL to go to CT and purchase a pre OR post 1998 magazine that I would be perfectly "with-in my rights" (his words)to carry with it.

And in regards to "Direct Control", he ALSO said that the ONLY time it has to be locked up is when I leave it unattended the house.

Are you saying that I am 0-2 with the info I received?

I also just read this online and unless I suck at understanding legalese, this seems to collaborate what I was told.

(a) A Class A license shall entitle a holder thereof to purchase, rent, lease, borrow, possess and carry: (i) firearms, including large capacity firearms, and feeding devices and ammunition therefor, for all lawful purposes, subject to such restrictions relative to the possession, use or carrying of firearms as the licensing authority deems proper; and (ii) rifles and shotguns, including large capacity weapons, and feeding devices and ammunition therefor, for all lawful purposes; provided, however, that the licensing authority may impose such restrictions relative to the possession, use or carrying of large capacity rifles and shotguns as it deems proper. A violation of a restriction imposed by the licensing authority under the provisions of this paragraph shall be cause for suspension or revocation and shall, unless otherwise provided, be punished by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000; provided, however, that the provisions of section 10 of chapter 269 shall not apply to such violation.
 
hogwylde said:
Rich, explain this to me then and I ask because I am trying to decipher Massachusetts laws just like many or all of us.

Today I had a job at a Massachusetts Police Barracks and naturally got to talking to a Trooper about my questions regarding the laws. Not that I want or need a large capacity magazine but was merely curious to know but this State Trooper ALSO told me that it was perfectly LEGAL to go to CT and purchase a pre OR post 1998 magazine that I would be perfectly "with-in my rights" (his words).

And in regards to "Direct Control", he ALSO said that the ONLY time it has to be locked up is when I leave it unattended the house.

Are you saying that I am 0-2 with the info I received?
Click to expand...

Where are you getting 1998? It's 9-13-94. Buying a mag in CT doesn't make it legal in MA. Over 10 rounds post 9-13-94 and it's a felony in MA. Again- direct control is not defined under the law so the decision falls on the officer on scene. Case law shows that anything but on your person is not direct control. LEO's in Mass are widely known to arrest and charge when in doubt. You are getting some very bad info. I encourage you to do some in depth research on the state's website. Don't push the limits and become a test case.
 
hogwylde said:
Rich, explain this to me then and I ask because I am trying to decipher Massachusetts laws just like many or all of us and not get into a pissing match.

Today I had a job at a Massachusetts Police Barracks and naturally got to talking to a Trooper about my questions regarding the laws. Not that I want or need a large capacity magazine but was merely curious to know the law and this State Trooper ALSO told me that it was perfectly LEGAL to go to CT and purchase a pre OR post 1998 magazine that I would be perfectly "with-in my rights" (his words)to carry with it.

And in regards to "Direct Control", he ALSO said that the ONLY time it has to be locked up is when I leave it unattended the house.

Are you saying that I am 0-2 with the info I received?

I also just read this online and unless I suck at understanding legalese, this seems to collaborate what I was told.

(a) A Class A license shall entitle a holder thereof to purchase, rent, lease, borrow, possess and carry: (i) firearms, including large capacity firearms, and feeding devices and ammunition therefor, for all lawful purposes, subject to such restrictions relative to the possession, use or carrying of firearms as the licensing authority deems proper; and (ii) rifles and shotguns, including large capacity weapons, and feeding devices and ammunition therefor, for all lawful purposes; provided, however, that the licensing authority may impose such restrictions relative to the possession, use or carrying of large capacity rifles and shotguns as it deems proper. A violation of a restriction imposed by the licensing authority under the provisions of this paragraph shall be cause for suspension or revocation and shall, unless otherwise provided, be punished by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000; provided, however, that the provisions of section 10 of chapter 269 shall not apply to such violation.
Click to expand...


Large capacity s defined under the law as any mag that holds 10 rounds or more.
 
Rich_S said:
Where are you getting 1998? It's 9-13-94. Buying a mag in CT doesn't make it legal in MA. Over 10 rounds post 9-13-94 and it's a felony in MA. Again- direct control is not defined under the law so the decision falls on the officer on scene. Case law shows that anything but on your person is not direct control. LEO's in Mass are widely known to arrest and charge when in doubt. You are getting some very bad info. I encourage you to do some in depth research on the state's website. Don't push the limits and become a test case.
Click to expand...

I think you can see that I am not trying to become a test case by my taking the safety course and then after doubting what I was told regarding the law, I followed up by questioning other authorities on the it. What am I supposed to think if TWO STATE LEO's and a MA Law site that I found online substantiate what I was told?

And I said 1998 because that is what the instructor said and for no other reason. I paid to take a MA mandated class and that is what we were told. No other reason.
 
Rich_S said:
Large capacity s defined under the law as any mag that holds 10 rounds or more.
Click to expand...

Correct and that is what I understood in the class. But I asked to Trooper a hypothetical question if I was carrying a pistol with a 20 round mag if I would be legal. And he said yes.
 
hogwylde said:
I think you can see that I am not trying to become a test case by my taking the safety course and then after doubting what I was told regarding the law, I followed up by questioning other authorities on the it. What am I supposed to think if TWO STATE LEO's and a MA Law site that I found online substantiate what I was told?

And I said 1998 because that is what the instructor said and for no other reason. I paid to take a MA mandated class and that is what we were told. No other reason.
Click to expand...

I'm telling you right now that your instructor is ignorant if he's telling you 1998. If two mass staties are saying that it's correct that's certainly firghtening. Nobody ever wants to become a test case but plenty of people end up doing just that. Can you post a link to this site that confirms what youre saying here? I'd like to see it.
 
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