Couple of Massachusetts LTC questions

[Rich_S]

Correct and that is what I understood in the class. But I asked to Trooper a hypothetical question if I was carrying a pistol with a 20 round mag if I would be legal. And he said yes.

If the mag was manufactured before 9-13-94 it's legal. Otherwise it's a felony.

http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131M

I'm not going to go on and on about this. I will say that you are going to get into allot of trouble listening to these people. Where did you take the class?

 

[ARV]

What happens when it's time to renew my permit and we have a DIFFERENT police chief who may have a different view from the previous chief? Can they deny my renewal? I have a spotless record with no felonies or misdemeanors so what reason could the chief have to deny me my permit? Do I need to have a "valid reason" to be wanting a CCW? Do they ask "WHY do you want a CCW?"

The different Chief could deny you, or restrict you. Its 100% discretion (read: Whim) on his part. The Chief could deny you for any reason. He doesn't like your shirt. Your car is nicer than his. His wife burnt his toast this morning and hes in a bad mood. You will likely never know, and its totally legal. I always used "all lawful purposes" What town if you don't mind my asking?

 

[Rich_S]

The different Chief could deny you, or restrict you. Its 100% discretion (read: Whim) on his part. The Chief could deny you for any reason. He doesn't like your shirt. Your car is nicer than his. His wife burnt his toast this morning and hes in a bad mood. You will likely never know, and its totally legal. I always used "all lawful purposes" What town if you don't mind my asking?

What's your take on the gun law info that he has received?

 

[Turkules77]

Hog, I would listen to Rich on this stuff. What he is saying is pretty much what I have found out by researching the same stuff. I have been on this site for about a year and it has been very helpful. One of the many lessons I have learned is never, ever, ever take gun law advice from an LEO.

I have also read from other places that just because your hi cap mag was manufactured before the 9-13-94 date, it must be used in a gun that was also manufactured before the 9-13-94 date. Whether or not this is true, I don't want to be the test dummy in court spending 20K in lawyer fees to figure it out. I own a MA compliant Sig p229. It will accept mags from older p228s, which I have found online. Supposedly built before 9-13-94. Since I can't 100% prove they were built before that date and since I can't find info on using them, I felt it was better to just let it go. It sucks, but thats the price we pay for living in MA.

 

[ARV]

What's your take on the gun law info that he has received?

The info he received from the instructor was bad, and could not only land him in legal trouble in mass, but could cause him to become federally disqualified from ever owning a firearm again. Though WRT the LEO telling him he can go to CT and buy post bans, yes he can. BUT they MUST be kept out of state. I could buy as many as I wanted so long as they didn't cross the border.

I have also read from other places that just because your hi cap mag was manufactured before the 9-13-94 date, it must be used in a gun that was also manufactured before the 9-13-94 date. Whether or not this is true, I don't want to be the test dummy in court spending 20K in lawyer fees to figure it out. I own a MA compliant Sig p229. It will accept mags from older p228s, which I have found online. Supposedly built before 9-13-94. Since I can't 100% prove they were built before that date and since I can't find info on using them, I felt it was better to just let it go. It sucks, but thats the price we pay for living in MA.

This is 110% untrue. No where in mass MGL does it say that pre ban mags can only be used in pre ban guns. That sounds like some gun shop lawyering being passed onto the internet. If I go and get my hands on a brand new AR-15 that is AWB compliant, and buy a mag made in 1991 I am legal to put it into what ever gun I wish.

Mass gun laws are backwards, vague, arbitrary, confusing, contradicting and (I believe) intentionally so. I use a diffrent forum most of the time because this one is blocked at work. Its a regional site, and the majority of the members are from MA. Even there we get confused. It is extremely common to ask someone to site the law they are referring to from the Ma website. Don't ever believe what you hear from a LEO, gunshop, or website WRT mass laws without verifying yourself first. I posted this link on another thread here. check it out. Most of the nuances of Mass laws are talked about somewhere in here. Massachusetts Laws

 

[Rich_S]

The info he received from the instructor was bad, and could not only land him in legal trouble in mass, but could cause him to become federally disqualified from ever owning a firearm again. Though WRT the LEO telling him he can go to CT and buy post bans, yes he can. BUT they MUST be kept out of state. I could buy as many as I wanted so long as they didn't cross the border.



This is 110% untrue. No where in mass MGL does it say that pre ban mags can only be used in pre ban guns. That sounds like some gun shop lawyering being passed onto the internet. If I go and get my hands on a brand new AR-15 that is AWB compliant, and buy a mag made in 1991 I am legal to put it into what ever gun I wish.

Mass gun laws are backwards, vague, arbitrary, confusing, contradicting and (I believe) intentionally so. I use a diffrent forum most of the time because this one is blocked at work. Its a regional site, and the majority of the members are from MA. Even there we get confused. It is extremely common to ask someone to site the law they are referring to from the Ma website. Don't ever believe what you hear from a LEO, gunshop, or website WRT mass laws without verifying yourself first. I posted this link on another thread here. check it out. Most of the nuances of Mass laws are talked about somewhere in here. Massachusetts Laws

It really frustrates the s*it out of me when you give people the correct answers and they don't believe you because some uninformed LEO says different. I also had an argument with a gun shop owner a while back who was sending his customer out the door with a new AR with a trigger lock on it for transport in his pickup.

 

[ARV]

It really frustrates the s*it out of me when you give people the correct answers and they don't believe you because some uninformed LEO says different. I also had an argument with a gun shop owner a while back who was sending his customer out the door with a new AR with a trigger lock on it for transport in his pickup.

The solution to the LEO issue is to have them ask several different LEO's. When they get several different answers. There may (or may not) be an AHH-HA! moment. The transport issue makes my head hurt.

 

[Rich_S]

The solution to the LEO issue is to have them ask several different LEO's. When they get several different answers. There may (or may not) be an AHH-HA! moment. The transport issue makes my head hurt.

Meh- just keep everythitng either on your person or locked up and unloaded out of sight and you're good to go. I don't rely on an LEO knowing that my 10/22 is A. non high cap and B. non high cap doesn't need to be locked up....

 

[Turkules77]

The info he received from the instructor was bad, and could not only land him in legal trouble in mass, but could cause him to become federally disqualified from ever owning a firearm again. Though WRT the LEO telling him he can go to CT and buy post bans, yes he can. BUT they MUST be kept out of state. I could buy as many as I wanted so long as they didn't cross the border.



This is 110% untrue. No where in mass MGL does it say that pre ban mags can only be used in pre ban guns. That sounds like some gun shop lawyering being passed onto the internet. If I go and get my hands on a brand new AR-15 that is AWB compliant, and buy a mag made in 1991 I am legal to put it into what ever gun I wish.

Mass gun laws are backwards, vague, arbitrary, confusing, contradicting and (I believe) intentionally so. I use a diffrent forum most of the time because this one is blocked at work. Its a regional site, and the majority of the members are from MA. Even there we get confused. It is extremely common to ask someone to site the law they are referring to from the Ma website. Don't ever believe what you hear from a LEO, gunshop, or website WRT mass laws without verifying yourself first. I posted this link on another thread here. check it out. Most of the nuances of Mass laws are talked about somewhere in here. Massachusetts Laws

It was on a Sig forum, but I had a funny feeling it wasn't correct. Since I can't prove when the mags were manufactured I wasn't going to get them anyways.

 

[hogwylde]

It really frustrates the s*it out of me when you give people the correct answers and they don't believe you because some uninformed LEO says different.

Woah! Lets sit back and think for a second. I am new to this and question everything in life and like to do my own research on things and that includes talking to people. Just because "someone" tells me something doesn't make it the Gospel truth and the relationship you and I have is nothing more than "a guy on the internet that I spoke to". I am NOT saying you are wrong because I know ****!! I am debating and discussing which should be healthy enough amongst adults without be "frustrating".

With that being said, could you please decipher or translate what I found regarding MA law? I can only ASSUME you are talking Class B and I am referring to Class A. Not saying anybody is right. I want to know what YOU think it means.

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(a) A Class A license shall entitle a holder thereof to purchase, rent, lease, borrow, possess and carry: (i) firearms, including large capacity firearms, and feeding devices and ammunition therefor, for all lawful purposes, subject to such restrictions relative to the possession, use or carrying of firearms as the licensing authority deems proper

 

[Rich_S]

Woah! Lets sit back and think for a second. I am new to this and question everything in life and like to do my own research on things and that includes talking to people. Just because "someone" tells me something doesn't make it the Gospel truth and the relationship you and I have is nothing more than "a guy on the internet that I spoke to". I am NOT saying you are wrong because I know ****!! I am debating and discussing which should be healthy enough amongst adults without be "frustrating".

With that being said, could you please decipher or translate what I found regarding MA law? I can only ASSUME you are talking Class B and I am referring to Class A. Not saying anybody is right. I want to know what YOU think it means.

-----

(a) A Class A license shall entitle a holder thereof to purchase, rent, lease, borrow, possess and carry: (i) firearms, including large capacity firearms, and feeding devices and ammunition therefor, for all lawful purposes, subject to such restrictions relative to the possession, use or carrying of firearms as the licensing authority deems proper

It seems to me like you tend to believe the LEO because he's an LEO. Anyway....even with an LTC-A you can't have post 9-13-94 mags greater than 10 rounds. You have to understand the legal definition of high capacity.

Also- subject to such restrictions relative to the possession

 

[hogwylde]

You have to understand the legal definition of high capacity.

Fair enough, which is what I am trying to do.

I guess the part that gets me is, when one is preparing for your driver's license, you are given a book to study that contains the rules of the road and some of the laws but yet there is nothing in "black and white" regarding carrying and are on your own to figure out the laws. Makes no sense.

 

[Rich_S]

Fair enough, which is what I am trying to do.

I guess the part that gets me is, when one is preparing for your driver's license, you are given a book to study that contains the rules of the road and some of the laws but yet there is nothing in "black and white" regarding carrying and are on your own to figure out the laws. Makes no sense.

Your instructor is required by law to review Mass law or give you written info with detailed explanations. It sounds like he did poor job. High capacity firearm = semi auto, capeable off accepting a mag that holds 10or more, mags post 9-13-94 holding more than 10 are illegal. For example, a brand new Beretta 92fs that accepts a 15 round mag is perfectly legal with a LTC A. You can use a pre ban 15 round mag in that gun and that's fine. That's all you need to know in that regard.

 

[hogwylde]

31 days to get my LTC and bought this yesterday. Can't wait to get out to the range and try her out.

 

[ARV]

31 days to get my LTC and bought this yesterday. Can't wait to get out to the range and try her out.

Nice choice Ive been thinking of picking up one myself.

 

[sambo42xa]

hogwylde- You should think about taking More classes......."In Home Defense", "Out of the Home"..etc. I'm sure you will, but for now take things one at a time.
This is a GREAT forum....there are alot of smart folks out here. Take the time to read, search and ask.
"A Smart person talks......a Wise person listens".
Good luck!

 

[Luke Larsen]

Im actually going to be applying for a Class A LTC as well in Westfield MA. One thing i am now confused of. I keep reading all these posts stating that its illegal to carry a pistol with a high-capacity magazine... Yet the Mass. Government website states that as of June 1st 1998, anyone with a Class A permit can carry any rifle, shotgun, or handgun with a high-capacity magazine. Please explain this to me.
Link Removed

 

[hogwylde]

Im actually going to be applying for a Class A LTC as well in Westfield MA. One thing i am now confused of. I keep reading all these posts stating that its illegal to carry a pistol with a high-capacity magazine... Yet the Mass. Government website states that as of June 1st 1998, anyone with a Class A permit can carry any rifle, shotgun, or handgun with a high-capacity magazine. Please explain this to me.
Link Removed

I'm in Westfield too! Greetings!

 

[snatale42]

Im actually going to be applying for a Class A LTC as well in Westfield MA. One thing i am now confused of. I keep reading all these posts stating that its illegal to carry a pistol with a high-capacity magazine... Yet the Mass. Government website states that as of June 1st 1998, anyone with a Class A permit can carry any rifle, shotgun, or handgun with a high-capacity magazine. Please explain this to me.
Link Removed

LTC-A will allow somebody to posses a PRE-BAN high cap mag, which was made prior to Sept 13, 1994. You may not have any high cap (over 10) round mag manufactured after 09/13/94. Somebody with an LTC-B can not have a high cap mag, even if it's preban.

 

[mrsandman224455]

Snatale42 is correct in stating that. You also are not allowed to carry at all with a LTC-B, which to me, makes the LTC-B useless.