Concealed Carry without a permit?
- Thread starter Montyrush
- Start date
LkWd_Don
Banned
Axeanda45 said:
I would have to ask if you know the laws in Axeandra45's State of Ohio?
You may know the law's in your state of Iowa, but those laws differ from state to state.. Such as the Laws here in Washington State, Our State Constitution directs that for me to protect not only my self and my family that I can Keep and Bear Arms.. but also to protect the state.. And in the laws that cover Use of Deadly Force, it says that I am not prohibited from using deadly force to prevent injury of myself, my family or another person who is the victim of a violent felony act.. Rape, Robbing, Mugging, etc.. In most states this is referred to as a Castle Doctrine meaning I can stand my ground against an assailant. A whole lot of States require that you do everything possible to avoid such a conflict before resorting to defensive tactics. That is probably where you are getting the idea that to exercise 2nd amendment rights of protecting yourself may result in a manslaughter conviction.
ericmt
New member
I'm going with what Massad Ayoob has written about frequently in Combat Handguns. He's cited cases in multiple states where people have been convicted of manslaughter because they didn't have a license. I guess Ohio might be different, but holding up a copy of the Bill of Rights to the average Joe on a jury probably isn't going to persuade him.
LkWd_Don
Banned
Fair enough.. though I might caution you against using or relying on blanket statements. It could result in your being thought a fool. If I were to take a couple minutes, I could even find where in the Washington State statutes (RCW's) it says that a person who uses Deadly Force in the protection of another lawfully can not be made financially responsible. That is a law that the powers that be here are trying to overturn.. I am keeping a close eye on it.
Edit: Ok, found the link, please read, especially how it says "1) No person in the state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting by any reasonable means necessary, himself or herself, his or her family, or his or her real or personal property, or for coming to the aid of another who is in imminent danger of or the victim of assault, robbery, kidnapping, arson, burglary, rape, murder, or any other violent crime"
RCW 9A.16.110: Defending against violent crime
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Axeanda45
Banned
I still call 100% bullsheet!!! Please give some ACTUAL examples..... What you might have heard some cop idiot (yes, Ayoob is an idiot) say is NOT a valid example....
No-way in he!! that a person gets convicted of manslaughter for a VALID self-defense shooting just because he was carrying the weapon without a permit... MAYBE a unlawful gun charge , but it in NO WAY changes the FACT it was a valid self-defense into a manslaughter charge... What galaxy are you living in dude???
Rocketgeezer
New member
Am I to understand, that if you shoot somebody with a handgun that you were carrying without a permit, and your state reqiures a permit to carry a handgun, and even though it was a justifiable shoot, you think all your going to end up with a unlawful weapons charge, boy whatever your on, must be some good ******
Black Dragon
New member
I don't remember hearing of anyone being convicted of a murder or manslaughter charge in valid self defense shooting. Charged, Yes. Conviction, No
For example one of the most anti-gun areas, NYC.
Bernhard Goetz shot four thugs for trying to mug him. The police charged him with attempted murder and a few other charges but the only thing that stuck was illegal possesion of a firearm.
If there is a conviction out there for legally defending yourself while carrying an unregister/licensed firearm please post it.
ericmt
New member
June 2011 Combat Handguns, page 94-95:
Florida. It was the 1990's, and a devout, hard-working young man who lived in a big-city ghetto decided that after being robbed, shot and stabbed, he'd be safer carrying a gun. He could budget $300 to protect himself. He bought a good used S&W 9mm for that money, loaded it with the cheapest hardball ammunition he could find, and decided to forego the carry permit he was eligible for because at the time it would have cost him $167. The day came when his girlfriend and he were attacked on the street by a violent thug with a long criminal record, who was much larger and stronger than he. The young man drew the gun to ward off the attack, but the suspect jumped him for the pistol, and got him down. Desperate to survive and save the woman he loved, the young man shot his attacker. It took five rounds through and through the torso before the assailant collapsed. The prosecutor went for a Murder charge, and heavily played up the fact that he was a felon, since first-offense illegal concealed carry in Florida is a felony...The jury convicted the young man of a low degree of Manslaughter, the least of the lesser included offenses. That young man served several years hard time in a state penitentiary, and will be a convicted felon for as long as he lives. The public defenders that spoke for him are convinced that if he'd had a carry permit, the case never even would have gone past the grand jury [emphasis mine].
Black Dragon
New member
Is there a name or case that this can be referenced with otherwise it just sounds like a story someone heard from someone that heard it from someone else.
Axeanda45
Banned
ironmike86
New member
Yeah but it's not really worth it if you get stopped for something unrelated and have a gun without a Cpl. = Felony. Unless you live in a rural area with few ppl few stores I wouldn't chance it. You could accidentally get involved in someone elses mess. And Leo can find a gun on u = Felony. JMO
LkWd_Don
Banned
True! Even here in Washington State where as long as you are not prohibited from owning a Firearm you can Open Carry, if you are caught carrying illegally, RCW 9.41.040: Unlawful possession of firearms (b) Unlawful possession of a firearm in the first degree is a class B felony punishable according to chapter 9A.20 RCW. RCW 9A.20.021: Maximum sentences for crimes committed July 1, 1984, and after. Maximum sentences for crimes committed July 1, 1984, and after. (1) Felony. Unless a different maximum sentence for a classified felony is specifically established by a statute of this state, no person convicted of a classified felony shall be punished by confinement or fine exceeding the following:
(b) For a class B felony, by confinement in a state correctional institution for a term of ten years, or by a fine in an amount fixed by the court of twenty thousand dollars, or by both such confinement and fine;
Axeanda45
Banned
Just what are you people doing that allows a cop to search you? If you arent an idiot and behave yourself like a person in a polite society would, you will never legally be searched. There are a few places that you would have to avoid on a personal risk/benefit assessment, and places with a (illegal, read the 4th) metal detector would be a no-carry place.. otherwise, how would anyone know if you were armed? (other than tracing someone from online by what they write in a forum? (which is also illegal if you actually respected/followed the 4th )
Some of you are afraid of your own shadow, and TPTB have already won...... Where did your manhood go? (this is only directed at those who live in the USA) You have allowed them to brainwash you into believing all of their ILLEGAL UNCONSTITUTIONAL LAWS actualy apply to you... You now belittle anyone who actually follows the SUPREME "Law" of this once great land.... I bet you would even turn someone like me into the "authorities" if you knew they were carrying a firearm "illegaly" (according to the bullcrap laws)...
Some of you are afraid of your own shadow, and TPTB have already won...... Where did your manhood go? (this is only directed at those who live in the USA) You have allowed them to brainwash you into believing all of their ILLEGAL UNCONSTITUTIONAL LAWS actualy apply to you... You now belittle anyone who actually follows the SUPREME "Law" of this once great land.... I bet you would even turn someone like me into the "authorities" if you knew they were carrying a firearm "illegaly" (according to the bullcrap laws)...
LkWd_Don
Banned
LOL Thing is here in Washington State, the only folks who can really be charged with Unlawful Possession are those who are knowingly ineligible to apply for a Concealed Pistol Permit and then are caught carrying anyway. :laugh: According to RCW 9.41.050: Carrying firearms. A person who would be illegible who is caught carrying concealed without a permit is actually only committing a misdemeanor. Unless he is carrying on federally prohibited property.
ericmt
New member
You know, I don't know what else to tell you. It occurred in the 1990s, pre-Internet. I provided the magazine, author, and publication date. It's from a mainstream magazine by a highly respected author who has had countless magazine and journal articles published. It would violate copyright law and the terms of agreement for the forum if I scanned and sent you the article.
If you really want to carry without a license, there's no one who can stop you. You're right that you'll probably not get searched by a police officer if you refuse, but other things can happen, such as you getting in a car accident or something else requiring you to go to the hospital. When they see your firearm, you're going to have a lot of explaining to do. I totally support Constitutional Carry, but it seems weird to commit civil disobedience that will be noticed by very few people if you end up in jail or prison. But it's your life, so you can do what you want. However, everyone must live with the consequences of their own actions.
EastOkHotRod
Member
We all have a permit and it's over two hundrert years old. it's what i call The Constitution.
keep yourn powder dry
keep yourn powder dry
ericmt
New member
Okay last post on this thread. I've never heard of "Combat Handguns" considered the Mainstream Media. When I, and probably about everyone else, hear the phrase "Mainstream Media," we think ABCNBCCBSCNNMSNBC.
I'm obviously not going to persuade you otherwise, but I hope you have about $50,000 saved up, because that is the average cost of a decent defense attorney.
Lowjiber
New member
Your friend is an idiot.
