CCW'er Defends Himself at Walmart (N Las Vegas)

[armed-an-rdy]

not true

armed-an-rdy said i should check the penel code. i did. i also checked with a judge,a prosecutor.,several leo i know,a crimminal defence lawyer, and they were in total agreement that being thrown to the ground by an assailent is grounds for drawing your gun and using it to defend yourself against 'great bodily harm or death'. after reading the applicable statutes and listening to these individuals expertise i am forced to conclude that armed-an-rdy's information is wrong for the state in which i live. perhaps he lives in a state that has different laws. i also would bet that most states would say it was justifiable. i choose to agree with the judge,the prosecutor,the lawyer,the leo's,the applicable statutes,as well as common sense that i would be justified using deadly force. to armed-an-rdy lets move on. most of the people who have commented agree with me. this could be debated forever so lets just agree to disagree. your mind is made up so lets drop it. good luck

if you want to drop it dont come back,also i dont beleive you talked to those ppl and read all that stuff. your the reason why they want to take guns away from us

 

[oldbanjo]

I'm in SC and if someone throws me to the ground their will only be one person talking to the Police.

 

[armed-an-rdy]

jail

I'm in SC and if someone throws me to the ground their will only be one person talking to the Police.

and one person going to trail then jail

 

[oldbanjo]

No sir

 

[Treo]

I smell troll.

Just so everyone's on the same page though, I'm talking about a criminal assailant who throws me down and continues the attack. If they throw me down ( why in the Hell am I in a fist fight anyway) and back off of course I wouldn't be justified in shooting.

That said I can't conceive of circumstances in wich I would allow an attacker that close w/ out drawing my gun anyway.

 

[handgonnetoter]

armed-an-rdy said i should check the penel code. i did. i also checked with a judge,a prosecutor.,several leo i know,a crimminal defence lawyer, and they were in total agreement that being thrown to the ground by an assailent is grounds for drawing your gun and using it to defend yourself against 'great bodily harm or death'. after reading the applicable statutes and listening to these individuals expertise i am forced to conclude that armed-an-rdy's information is wrong for the state in which i live. perhaps he lives in a state that has different laws. i also would bet that most states would say it was justifiable. i choose to agree with the judge,the prosecutor,the lawyer,the leo's,the applicable statutes,as well as common sense that i would be justified using deadly force. to armed-an-rdy lets move on. most of the people who have commented agree with me. this could be debated forever so lets just agree to disagree. your mind is made up so lets drop it. good luck

Finally, some common sense!

 

[ClearSightTactical]

and one person going to trail then jail

Most everyone here disagrees with you, you've yet to post any real statute or "penal" code that supports your opinion. Please post relevant supporting documentation to backup your stance I think we'd all appreciate it. Many have articulated in detail quoting statutes and details regarding why they feel being thrown to the ground by an assailant in some circumstances would result in them using deadly force.

You have offered one liner responses, and a desire to cause confrontation. Again, Please submit supporting documentation OR explain your stance in detail using more than 1 sentence. I think a paragraph of explanation summarizing laws, ethics, morals, and why you came to the conclusion would be best.

If not then as stated before - agree to disagree.

 

[S&W645]

Sorry, but armed-an-rdy would be going to the morgue while I'd be going to the hospital before going home. I won't put myself in a position to take a fall, as it could either make me a vegetable or kill me, without defending myself. Up to and including the use of deadly force. And be totally justified.

Per FS 776.013 (3):

(3)A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

A fall, by many people, can do great bodily harm or cause death.

 

[oldbanjo]

If a dog attacks me I have the right to protect myself, if a man attacks me I have the same right. If you ever see my Gun, I fully intend to fire it, I am not Legal pointing my Gun at anyone. If I pull it out I will fire it, and no one has the right to throw you down on the ground, that is an attack and would be considered a justifiable shooting in SC. Weight, age, sex, number of attackers and other things can justify the shooting.

 

[Couch Potato]

Well, my penal code says this:

A person is privileged to threaten or intentionally use force against another for the purpose of preventing or terminating what the person reasonably believes to be an unlawful interference with his or her person by such other person. The actor may intentionally use only such force or threat thereof as the actor reasonably believes is necessary to prevent or terminate the interference. The actor may not intentionally use force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm unless the actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself.

And that sounds to me like if someone throws me to the ground I have a reason to fear for my life. I am 6'3", and 245, so if I hit the ground at the will of someone attacking me, they are obviously not going to let me have the chance to get back up and fight back, or even run away. So you can bet your a** I am going to draw and given a reason I will dump a round or 2 into the part of their body that will make them stop attacking the fastest.

I agree with TREO, there is far too much chance that when someone knocks you down, they are going to make it a point not to let you back up. So the only reasonable way to view this is that the attacker intends to cause great bodily harm or death.

Not only do you have to believe your life is threatened, the local prosecutor, and possibly a jury needs to see it the same way. If you truly fear for your life when knocked to the ground, by all means defend yourself. However, be prepared for the possible consequences.

 

[armed-an-rdy]

good point

Sorry, but armed-an-rdy would be going to the morgue while I'd be going to the hospital before going home. I won't put myself in a position to take a fall, as it could either make me a vegetable or kill me, without defending myself. Up to and including the use of deadly force. And be totally justified.

Per FS 776.013 (3):


A fall, by many people, can do great bodily harm or cause death.

meet force with force,my point exactly. if you are throw to the ground and no weapon is produced.i see no reason to pull your weapon.thats all ive been trying to point out.if you beleive you life is in danger and you fire your weapon.i hope it doesnt go to trail.and im not a troll.i just find this subject interesting.

 

[armed-an-rdy]

Sorry, but armed-an-rdy would be going to the morgue while I'd be going to the hospital before going home. I won't put myself in a position to take a fall, as it could either make me a vegetable or kill me, without defending myself. Up to and including the use of deadly force. And be totally justified.

Per FS 776.013 (3):


A fall, by many people, can do great bodily harm or cause death.

are you falling from a 2 story roof top, or just being throw to the ground,why does being thrown to the ground get exageratted

 

[CalicoJack10]

Not only do you have to believe your life is threatened, the local prosecutor, and possibly a jury needs to see it the same way. If you truly fear for your life when knocked to the ground, by all means defend yourself. However, be prepared for the possible consequences.

Again, I am not a little guy, and I am tattooed up from head to toe (Literally), if someone throws me to the ground they obviously intend to do as much damage as possible. That is not hard to make anyone believe. Anyone who sees a guy like me get knocked down immediately has the thought "He's gonna get his a** whooped" and watches to see it happen.

 

[Treo]

I can only assume that some of the respondants to this thread have never been in a real fight before

Do some of you not realize we don’t live in the 50s anymore? When morons attack they do so w/ the intent to do as much damage as they can. They are not going to knock you down and back off so you can get up and fight fair.

Once you are on the ground they are going to press their advantage. If you don’t believe me go to youtube and search “Beatdown” or “fight”.

If a random stranger attacks me w/ enough force to knock me off my feet I am going to assume he has every intention of pressing the attack and I’m going to consider myself to be at enough of a disadvantage to have satisfied the “reasonable fear of life or grievous bodily harm” threshold and I will react accordingly.

 

[S&W645]

are you falling from a 2 story roof top, or just being throw to the ground,why does being thrown to the ground get exageratted

Because in an attack on me, it could easily be quite deadly. The only thing keeping me able to use my right arm is 6 titanium screws and a butterfly shaped chunk of thin plastic in my neck keeping C-3 off of C-5. Inside that area is a bone spur pushing into the spinal cord also. It is why I had to retire at age 50 and why I wear a cervical collar at times. Photo below of my neck after the surgery.

 

[Treo]

Because in an attack on me, it could easily be quite deadly. The only thing keeping me able to use my right arm is 6 titanium screws and a butterfly shaped chunk of thin plastic in my neck keeping C-3 off of C-5. Inside that area is a bone spur pushing into the spinal cord also. It is why I had to retire at age 50 and why I wear a cervical collar at times. Photo below of my neck after the surgery.

Show us the x rays dude I want to see if it is Synthes (better than 90% chance ) hardware

 

[S&W645]

Show us the x rays dude I want to see if it is Synthes (better than 90% chance ) hardware

I don't have a copy of it. I'll try for a copy from the fluoroscope next time I get a cervical epidural injection. Which will likely be next month. :sad:

 

[Couch Potato]

I can only assume that some of the respondants to this thread have never been in a real fight before

Do some of you not realize we don’t live in the 50s anymore? When morons attack they do so w/ the intent to do as much damage as they can. They are not going to knock you down and back off so you can get up and fight fair.

Once you are on the ground they are going to press their advantage. If you don’t believe me go to youtube and search “Beatdown” or “fight”.

If a random stranger attacks me w/ enough force to knock me off my feet I am going to assume he has every intention of pressing the attack and I’m going to consider myself to be at enough of a disadvantage to have satisfied the “reasonable fear of life or grievous bodily harm” threshold and I will react accordingly.

If the guy has no weapon other than his bare hands, you are likely looking at jail time for manslaughter. Legally "grievous bodily harm" is not a reasonable expectation from a bare handed attack. It is a possibility, but not a reasonable expectation sufficient to warrant deadly force. This not my opinion, but a paraphrase of one of the most popular texts on criminal law.

 

[CalicoJack10]

If the guy has no weapon other than his bare hands, you are likely looking at jail time for manslaughter. Legally "grievous bodily harm" is not a reasonable expectation from a bare handed attack. It is a possibility, but not a reasonable expectation sufficient to warrant deadly force. This not my opinion, but a paraphrase of one of the most popular texts on criminal law.

Just for the sake of argument, I have to ask this question. If that is the case, why is it so many veterans are charged with assault with intent to do great bodily harm as a result of self defense? Anyone who has taken martial arts or who has had some form of military hand to hand combat training can be just as screwed if they use their hands as if they use their firearm. As a martial artist I was taught the amount of damage that you can do if you are not careful, and being prior military the same holds true there.

More often than not, you don't know the background of the person attacking you, so if they do, there is no telling what will happen.

I was attacked at one point by a rated black belt, he swung across my left shoulder from behind me and broke my jaw clean in 2 pieces, knocked a tooth out, split another tooth in half, and opened up a crater in the back of my mouth big enough for me to stick my thumb in. 118 stitches, a metal plate, and 2 screws later the idea of use of comparable force had a new definition for me.

 

[oldbanjo]

Every State has different Laws, in this State (SC) if you are attacked and think your life is in danger you can respond with a Gun shot, there will be no Civil Law Suits. Equal force does not apply. If the other person is committing a Felony there are no rules to help him.