CCW Holder shot by LVMPD - Justified?????

[buddy]

Something smells. I don't believe 4x the lethal dose of morphine and a lethal level of xanax and he was walking around functioning. I am rarely disappointed in believing if it doesn't sound logical, it probably isn't.

Why?

This is the testimony from the dr who did the autopsy. I don't get why you would not believe it. What are you basing this on?

 

[buddy]

You have produced nothing but hearsay. You can't use it in court, but you're trying to sell it to me. Sorry, but I'm not buying it either. When you have something of legal substance that proves your statement, I'll listen. But until then, I've heard quite enough of your worthless babble that proves, and says nothing. Bill T.

Let me explain some legal things to you Bill T. I am not an atty but have testified in court and been deposed many times. Eyewitness testimony is not hearsay and IS admissible in court, despite your belief that it is not.

A doctor testifying to his or her work on a victim is not hearsay and IS admissible in court, despite your belief that it is not.

Erik Scott's dr's testifying to their treatment of him and his depression and drug addiction is not hearsay and IS admissible in court despite your belief that it is not.

 

[buddy]

Interesting how none of the witnesses were cross-examined.

Also, the star witness was a Costco employee who gave testimony with the Costco corporate attorney watching her carefully. Probably had a look on his face like "Choose your words carefully if you value your career with the company..."

Witness testimony is usually the least reliable of all possible evidence. It is even more worthless when the witnesses never get cross-examined !

Sounds like a rigged proceeding set up merely to smear the victim and whitewash the LEO.

I cannot imagine how this is supposed to get to the bottom of this mess.

This reminds me of Janet Reno investigating herself over the Waco fiasco!

-Doc

When an employee testifies, the company has to appoint an atty to represent that person. That is all. You can speculate about the "look on his face" all day long, but it undermines any attempt at credibility you try to claim. The company is not the main focus here anyway, the cops are.

 

[buddy]

Hey buddy: Thank you very much for your comments. Isn't it a pleasure to write your comments in an orderly and respectful manner and then have a foul-mouthed buffle-headed goon lay his garbage on you? If only billyboy could converse in a respectful manner like many others who disagree with you, perhaps this thread would have a semblance of decency, but lo, decency does not seem to be a word that he understands, comprehends or even lives by. It is truly a shame that this case, as discussed in this forum, has degenerated to this point. Just wish billt would lighten up a bit and chill. I can feel his quickening pulse go off the charts---he seems to have a big problem with LEOs and a bigger problem with anyone who disagrees with him.

Yep, you got that one dead on. To someone like him, God himself could come down from heaven and take him back in time and watch the whole event. If it showed that Scott caused this whole thing, Billy would say "God, you are in on the coverup too!!!!!"

 

[Cocked _and_Locked]

If there is any official culpability in this mess it's between the Nevada State Medical Association and the County Sheriff for not coordinating the revocation of his permit, assuming he was in fact legally permitted to carry in the first place, before his drug problem started.

 

[FN1910]

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/off-topic/14542-special-forces-imposter.html

The link above is to anoter site where there is quite a discussion about a man impersonating a Green Beret.

Lierley said that after a peaceful interaction between Scott and manager Vince Lopez, he saw Scott tearing merchandise tags from multiple coolers and packages of water bottles. Lierley said he then noticed the handgun in Scott's waistband and told Lopez, who informed Scott that guns are not allowed in the store.

"Next thing you know, Mr. Scott ... gets up and says, 'I'm a Green Beret. You need to check the (expletive) Constitution.' And it was just real quick, real snapped. And at that point, it made me step back because he had a firearm," Lierley said.

A lot has been made about him being a West Point grad but that doesn't mean a whole lot to me. In my small neighborhood (40 homes) there is a least 1 West Point grad, one neighbor has a son that is a recent grad of WP and another has two children in the Naval Academy right now. I turned down an appointment to the Air Force Academy. Being a WP Grad doesn't make you super human. As for a Duke MBA I know several of those including some former co-workers and a few relatives. Also nice but not extraordinary.

What we have is a man with a less-than-impecable reputation (unlike what has been reported) with his personality being altered by drugs (maybe legal or naybe not but definately affecting his actions) causing a disturbance in a store. Maybe the Costco employees overreacted and the police probably did overreact but it appears to me that they were going on the best information that they had. It had a tragic ending but the dead man is not without fault and to call the LEO murderers is not correct. I think his father knew what happened from the start and his whole media campaign is just to try an end run around the facts like a politician with his hand caught in the cookie jar.

As for the missing video the whole conspiracy deal here is nothing but a theory. We just installed a new video sytem where I work and I wouldn't bet you 10 cents on it being able to prove anything.

I am just tired of some people trying to make Scott out to be some sort of super human nice guy who was gunned down in cold blood by a police hit squad.

 

[Cocked _and_Locked]

"Mr. Scott ... gets up and says, 'I'm a Green Beret. You need to check the (expletive) Constitution..."

Unfortunately you will find this mindset in many. Dude obviously had the reality distortion field cranked up on high. Our Constitution is a wonderful thing, but it cannot protect us from our own stupidity.

 

[Bohemian]

Here's the thing...

• No Store/Surveillance Video, except the cop car pulling into the parking lot whatsoever - Highly Suspect from a place known to be anal about Store/Surveillance...
• No Dash-cam Video from the cops - Highly Suspect from a state that mandates every cop car & bike have a fricking cam...
• The cop William Mosher whom CLAIMS he was drawn on (Not the first time he has been in the public eye for this very thing either)... looks like he spends more time at the donut shop; then at the gym; his picture is on the cover of the LVRJ this am... along with the 2nd consecutive hit piece in as many days by the LVRJ and continued character assassination coverage from the coroners inquest in process... Link Removed
• No Nevada cop has ever been convicted OR charged in a wrongful shooting...
• Erik Scott - West Point Grad, and model citizen (the victim) was shot SEVEN TIMES center chest and never fired a round...
• Thus-far ONE-Doctor testified Erick Scott had potentially fatal levels of pain killers (prescribed for his legitimate chronic pain) in his blood stream, which could have made him delusional; ALTHOUGH, completely omitted that it is a well-known fact that individuals taking pain killers over long periods of time for chronic pain become so-adjusted to them, that they need exponentially higher-then-normal doses just to make it through the day; further, that they are far from delusional under these circumstances... Additionally, I have several friends, fellow veterans, and family members taking prescribed douses of pain-killers that would kill a normal person; and talking with them you would not be able to tell they were under such medication...
• "If we had two sides, the family's attorney could have objected or asked the witnesses questions," said Maggie McLetchie, an attorney for the Nevada ACLU. "It seems to me what the district attorney is doing is demonizing Erik Scott, that he deserved to die. The jury is being poisoned." - Source: Link Removed

I will say it again, this reeks of corruption and cover up...

Without Video, everything is hearsay, and conjecture and can be manipulated and distorted for the desired result by those cover up the facts...

• Tired of Innocent Nevadans getting killed by police officers?
• Tired of a ONE-SIDED Corners Inquest System?
• Can't stand the Clark County, Nevada ONLY MANDATORY HANDGUN REGISTRATION REQUIREMENT? (AKA: BLUE CARD)

FIRE SHERIFF DOUG GILLESPIE !!!

Link Removed

CORONER'S INQUEST: Officer said he shot Scott after man pulled gun from waistband - News - ReviewJournal.com

Demand Justice!
Contact the media and your legislators...
We need 50 state visibility on this!
Contact Your Representatives:
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/officials/
Contact The Media:
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/media/

 

[Cocked _and_Locked]

Conspiracy Theory?

Bo, just curious, this may be a little off topic, but do you believe the 9-11 attacks were a government conspiracy? That the WTC towers were taken down by a controlled detonation, an airliner did not strike the Pentagon, and the crash site near Shanksvile was faked?

Any or all of that?

Just curious...

 

[kelcarry]

From what I get out of the testimony so far is that everyone is right and everyone is wrong although testimony seems to indicate Mr. Scott definitely had a problem and his actions in the store and outside the store, particularly since he had one (or two) firearms, was a recipe for an unfortunate outcome. It does seem suspicious that the Costco tape, which would have shown all, apparently did not work during the critical time frame in question. I wonder if they have ever had such problems with the tapings during the time the store has been in operation. If such failures have happened in the past, it would make this failure believable. If there have never been such failures before and this happened this one time, the coincidence would be improbable at best and essentially implausable. It would and is a shame that conflicting testimony is all that is available when a picture would have been worth the proverbial thousand words.

 

[buddy]

From what I get out of the testimony so far is that everyone is right and everyone is wrong although testimony seems to indicate Mr. Scott definitely had a problem and his actions in the store and outside the store, particularly since he had one (or two) firearms, was a recipe for an unfortunate outcome. It does seem suspicious that the Costco tape, which would have shown all, apparently did not work during the critical time frame in question. I wonder if they have ever had such problems with the tapings during the time the store has been in operation. If such failures have happened in the past, it would make this failure believable. If there have never been such failures before and this happened this one time, the coincidence would be improbable at best and essentially implausable. It would and is a shame that conflicting testimony is all that is available when a picture would have been worth the proverbial thousand words.

While driving to work this morning, a local vegas radio host was covering this issue. Apparently some Costco employees said the video was not working just days before the shooting either.
Now I have no proof of that, but am only repeating what the host said.

 

[Bohemian]

While driving to work this morning, a local vegas radio host was covering this issue. Apparently some Costco employees said the video was not working just days before the shooting either.
Now I have no proof of that, but am only repeating what the host said.

Costco Surveillance Video Footage of the cops car entering the parking lot is the ONLY video that has been presented thus far...

HIGHLY SUSPECT...

COVER UP, COVER UP, COVER UP...

 

[Cocked _and_Locked]

OK, here's the other thing....

No Store/Surveillance Video...

So what? If available, it would probably only serve to support the correct conclusions presently being drawn and doesn't matter anyway in light of other overwhelming evidence.

No Dash-cam Video from the cops...

Because we all know the cops always park facing the predicted location of a probable encounter with an unknown suspect at a similarly unknown location, right?

The cop William Mosher whom CLAIMS he was drawn on...

What people in Vegas have by far the highest probablility of a gun being drawn on them? Answer: LVMPD. You find that so hard to believe because? Whose officer's appearance in this cases is totally unrelated to the matter in question except inasmuch as you would like to....

...continued character assassination

Character assasination targets are typically only a matter of personal preference. I'll take the cop over an Army washout any day.

No Nevada cop has ever been convicted OR charged in a wrongful shooting...

So what? No Greenwich Connecticut cop has ever been charged or convicted of that either. Your point?

Erik Scott - West Point Grad, and model citizen...

Drug addict with anger issues who failed to complete his stint in the Army for as yet undisclosed reasons. Riiiight.

Thus-far ONE-Doctor testified ...

I'll leave it at that and not go into any personal experiences with drug-affected close personal acquaintances.

If we had two sides, the family's attorney...

Sorry, but it's not a trial for obvious reasons.

It seems to me what the district attorney is doing is demonizing Erik Scott...

It seems to me Eric Scott did quite a good job of demonizing himself along the way to his unfortunate demise, with no outside help from the DA or anyone else, for that matter.

this reeks of corruption and cover up...

Sure - to your typical conspiracy theorist.

Without Video, everything is hearsay...

Uh actually no, it is sworn testimony given under oath as was mentioned previously

Demand Justice!

Demand truth.

 

[FN1910]

CORONER'S INQUEST: Costco employees testify Scott acted unusual before shooting - News - ReviewJournal.com

Jurors heard the taped statement of Erik Scott's girlfriend Friday after the eyewitness failed to appear at a coroner's inquest into his July 10 shooting death outside the Costco store in Summerlin.

In an interview on the afternoon of the shooting, Samantha Sterner spoke without emotion and told Las Vegas police detectives that her boyfriend was trying to disarm when an officer fired at him without hesitation.

"He was trying to put his weapon on the ground," Sterner told police.

So now she gets to tell her side of the story and fails to show up. She told the police he was trying to put his gun on the ground, that same gun that never left his waistband and his hands were never lowered. It really is starting to sound as if the police are presenting only one side of the story because the other side doesn't have a story.

One thing that everyone needs to keep in mind is that this is a Coroner's Inquest and doesn't actually carry any legal standing of guilt or innocence of anyone.

 

[kelcarry]

Somehow I would hope the overall condition and timing of all the video cameras/recordings within the Costco site will be scrutinized to ensure that it was not just the MOST IMPORTANT VIDEO OF THEM ALL that had a problem AT THAT TIME. If, as Buddy said in his last reply, there is evidence that the videos were not working days before or even hours before this incident, that is extremely important and does not smack of coverup.

 

[buddy]

Link Removed

Here is a link to the radio station I listed to today. This article contains some information that has surfaced:

another witness says scott told the cops "i have a gun" and pointed it at them
several witnesses, testifed the hard drive became corrupt on the 8th of July (shooting was the 10th) and no images were available from that time on

 

[buddy]

CORONER'S INQUEST: Shoppers: Scott reached for something before being shot by police - News - ReviewJournal.com

More information. Does not paint this man in a positive light. I can only assume cops are working for the review journal newspaper and making this all up to cover their actions.

Interestingly, the scott family att says he has 20-25 witnesses who will testify that they never saw him draw his gun, but he will not allow them to testify.

Does not want them "browbeat" by the prosecutor.

 

[Bighouse Doc]

Just because testimony is sworn, without cross examination, there is no way to ascertain the truthfulness of it.

More than "Slam-Dunk" case was lost when a star witness was cross examined and the testimony fell apart.

I don't know who is right in this mess.

All stories have two sides, but only one is being allowed in this proceeding.

Only witnesses favorable to the prosecutor are allowed and no one can cross examine them.

That is what alarms me!

-Doc

 

[JEFFANDTHEA]

NV. does not mandate dash cams. Metro has never had dash cams. Cover up or not Scott pulled a gun on officers telling him to "get on the ground". That is fact. In the 911 tapes you can hear the commands to " get on the ground". His own girlfriends statement said he pulled his gun. When you take your CCW course you are trained what to do in the presence of LEO's is to do what they say. And to NEVER touch your weapon. Erik failed in this simple task. It is truly sad. All he had to do was get on the ground. There is no cover up, just a guy who failed at basic instruction, and a cop who wanted to go home that night. And I was taking Erik Scott side when I first heard this, but you don't grab your gun when a LEO has you at gun point telling you" to get on the ground."

 

[BigSlick]

NV. does not mandate dash cams. Metro has never had dash cams. Cover up or not Scott pulled a gun on officers telling him to "get on the ground". That is fact. In the 911 tapes you can hear the commands to " get on the ground". His own girlfriends statement said he pulled his gun. When you take your CCW course you are trained what to do in the presence of LEO's is to do what they say. And to NEVER touch your weapon. Erik failed in this simple task. It is truly sad. All he had to do was get on the ground. There is no cover up, just a guy who failed at basic instruction, and a cop who wanted to go home that night. And I was taking Erik Scott side when I first heard this, but you don't grab your gun when a LEO has you at gun point telling you" to get on the ground."

Yes, but the cop did say drop it along with other commands. This was brought up by the DA and the audio of the 911 call was played in the court for the jury to hear. The cop said that was his voice but he didn't remember saying that. There is no doubt that Erik was on some heavy medication and maybe he was trying to comply with the drop it order but in his medicated state he couldn't process the situation quick enough. Another thing that rubs me the wrong way is the way the pictures of the scene show his pistol on the ground in the holster. The cops testimony mentioned that you could still place your finger inside the trigger and fire the weapon with it holstered. Why would he mention that? If Erik had even for a moment thought of firing on the police why would he take his gun and holster out of his waste band?