CCW and the TSA
- Thread starter Psyk00diver
- Start date
Don't know what state your in, but we have similar arrangement here in NC. To buy a handgun, you must first get a "psitol permit" from your county sherrif. But if you have a concealed carry permit, that requirement is waived. Your CC permit serves as a "pistol permit".
Sorry, rdc2co.... you've bought into the koolade far too fully.
If that's all they need to do to ensure my safety, then touch my 'junk' all day, I don't care. If I'm not doing anything wrong, who cares? What do you think happens when you are detained or arrested?
Nobody wants to be killed in the next terrorist action- not even me. Is it better to get blown up or touched? Gee, touched or killed...the great dilemma...hmmmmm....
Two things... we are a nation of LAWS... the core terms of which were drawn up about 1789 or so. They are STILL the law of the land. The Fourth Ammendment PRESERVES our RIGHT to freedom from any search (and feeling me up to see if I've got anything I oughtn't have is DEFINITELY a search.... no matter HOW you spin it) without a warrant, which warrant must be provided by a judge of a court having jurisdiction where I am, it must name the item or items being sought, the grounds for the belief I am likely to be in possession of them, and where they are likely to be found... the search being strictly limited to those terms as provided in the warrant. As LEO, you ought to know this. You "contact" me in a traffic stop, the Supreme Court has even declared you CANNOT search inside my vehicle beyond what you can easily see from the outside, unless you have a warrant, or probable cause. SO-- I'm standing in a line at the airport wanting to get to the seat on the particular airplane I have paid for.... no sign of anything illegal..... what POSSIBLE stretch of your wild and overactive imagination can possibly provide "probable cause" or grounds for a warrant? They WHY do you uphold the "right" (which does not exist) for our government goons to effect a search of my person without A or B? Warrant, or probable cause... ONE of those two MUST be in place before ANY government agent can search my person, effects, home (and by Supreme Court interpretation, my vehicle), or papers.
You whine "safety"..... blown up? Come ON.... since 11 Sept 2001, there has not been ONE such terrorist activity on our shores that possibly could have been discovered by using TSA's insane methods. How many times have TSA actually discovered anything that posed a significant threat to any mode of public transport? I'll put it in round numbers... ZERO. How many truly dangerous objects have they discovered and confiscated by their insanely tyrannical searches? And I am NOT referring to Granny's kniting needles or a sealed tin of baby formula, a jar of a mother's breast milk, a twelve ounce sealed bottle of pure spring water, or some pre-teen's nail clippers. NOT ONE TIME have TSA ever discovered and seized anything posing a real threat to the travelling public.... but they HAVE failed to discover many such articles... a loaded handgun, a pocket knife with a three inch blade, dozens of similar items have gone undiscovered.... many of them deliberately carried as tests by secret TSA or other government agents. Their track record is SO BAD if they were a private company they'd have to be replaced... and we KNEW this would be the case when they first tossed all the private checking and formed a government entity to do it. Besides, the number of thefts of passenger's personal belongings has skyrocketed... I've had items stolen from my luggage since TSA began screening baggage...... and NEVER ONCE prior to that. There have been a number of cases where TSA agents and at times their supervisors have been caught and prosecuted for stealing from passengers.... or enabling those under them to do so. This was a non-issue before TSA were on the scene "helping" us and "protecing" us.
Read the Fourth Ammendment to the Constitution.. YOU, as LEO, have sworn to uphold and defend this law... along with all the others in that document. Tell me what part of "freedom to be secure in one's person, papers, effects, and home" without due process of law... which clearly means an unique process of the legal system giving authority to search in every individual instance, not a blanket "fly on an airplane is probable cause for criminal activity, therefore a search is justified".
Every time there is some sort of bogus "planted" threat (the pantybomber, the shoebomber, and others) it is taken up quickly and used to "justify" another round of offensive and worthless "security measures". What's next, some creep with a bomb in his bum? Yeah, just what we need to "justify" full X ray scanning of everyone for "bum bombs".......
I already refuse to fly until the tyranny of the TSA is reined in and ended. Sixty five billion a year in direct costs, millions of hours of wasted customer time, delays, lost revenue from the airlines (mine, for starters), people arrested and harrassed for nothing... reflex and put your arm up to protect your head when the goons are smacking you around because you were "resisting arrest", and get charged with a federal felony for "assaulting a federal official"... it's happened. And we've not even counted ther millions that have, and will, be wasted from OUR tax dollars to defend against unacceptible conduct of TSA people against innocent travelers, with NO provocation.
Good job that six year old girl is not MY daughter, and I wasn't there. I'd have flat refused that female's demands to treat her like that. No way would I ever allow any other person's hands to feel all over her body and get inside her pants. That is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG... I don't care if it cost our plane tickets..... that agent would NOT have ever gotten her hands on MY little girl. A Father is BOUND to defend his children against such outrages.... if that ever happened inside my home, that female would now be well on her way to being a registered sex offender..... and her being a "government agent" makes NO difference. It is STILL child molestation and sexual assault.
I truly hope the State of Texas manages to pass their "boot the TSA" law... no pornoscanners, and sexual assault will remain sexual assault no matter WHO does it or why..... feel up a passenger at an airport, go to jail on felony charges. GO TEXAS......
If that's all they need to do to ensure my safety, then touch my 'junk' all day, I don't care. If I'm not doing anything wrong, who cares? What do you think happens when you are detained or arrested?
Nobody wants to be killed in the next terrorist action- not even me. Is it better to get blown up or touched? Gee, touched or killed...the great dilemma...hmmmmm....
Two things... we are a nation of LAWS... the core terms of which were drawn up about 1789 or so. They are STILL the law of the land. The Fourth Ammendment PRESERVES our RIGHT to freedom from any search (and feeling me up to see if I've got anything I oughtn't have is DEFINITELY a search.... no matter HOW you spin it) without a warrant, which warrant must be provided by a judge of a court having jurisdiction where I am, it must name the item or items being sought, the grounds for the belief I am likely to be in possession of them, and where they are likely to be found... the search being strictly limited to those terms as provided in the warrant. As LEO, you ought to know this. You "contact" me in a traffic stop, the Supreme Court has even declared you CANNOT search inside my vehicle beyond what you can easily see from the outside, unless you have a warrant, or probable cause. SO-- I'm standing in a line at the airport wanting to get to the seat on the particular airplane I have paid for.... no sign of anything illegal..... what POSSIBLE stretch of your wild and overactive imagination can possibly provide "probable cause" or grounds for a warrant? They WHY do you uphold the "right" (which does not exist) for our government goons to effect a search of my person without A or B? Warrant, or probable cause... ONE of those two MUST be in place before ANY government agent can search my person, effects, home (and by Supreme Court interpretation, my vehicle), or papers.
You whine "safety"..... blown up? Come ON.... since 11 Sept 2001, there has not been ONE such terrorist activity on our shores that possibly could have been discovered by using TSA's insane methods. How many times have TSA actually discovered anything that posed a significant threat to any mode of public transport? I'll put it in round numbers... ZERO. How many truly dangerous objects have they discovered and confiscated by their insanely tyrannical searches? And I am NOT referring to Granny's kniting needles or a sealed tin of baby formula, a jar of a mother's breast milk, a twelve ounce sealed bottle of pure spring water, or some pre-teen's nail clippers. NOT ONE TIME have TSA ever discovered and seized anything posing a real threat to the travelling public.... but they HAVE failed to discover many such articles... a loaded handgun, a pocket knife with a three inch blade, dozens of similar items have gone undiscovered.... many of them deliberately carried as tests by secret TSA or other government agents. Their track record is SO BAD if they were a private company they'd have to be replaced... and we KNEW this would be the case when they first tossed all the private checking and formed a government entity to do it. Besides, the number of thefts of passenger's personal belongings has skyrocketed... I've had items stolen from my luggage since TSA began screening baggage...... and NEVER ONCE prior to that. There have been a number of cases where TSA agents and at times their supervisors have been caught and prosecuted for stealing from passengers.... or enabling those under them to do so. This was a non-issue before TSA were on the scene "helping" us and "protecing" us.
Read the Fourth Ammendment to the Constitution.. YOU, as LEO, have sworn to uphold and defend this law... along with all the others in that document. Tell me what part of "freedom to be secure in one's person, papers, effects, and home" without due process of law... which clearly means an unique process of the legal system giving authority to search in every individual instance, not a blanket "fly on an airplane is probable cause for criminal activity, therefore a search is justified".
Every time there is some sort of bogus "planted" threat (the pantybomber, the shoebomber, and others) it is taken up quickly and used to "justify" another round of offensive and worthless "security measures". What's next, some creep with a bomb in his bum? Yeah, just what we need to "justify" full X ray scanning of everyone for "bum bombs".......
I already refuse to fly until the tyranny of the TSA is reined in and ended. Sixty five billion a year in direct costs, millions of hours of wasted customer time, delays, lost revenue from the airlines (mine, for starters), people arrested and harrassed for nothing... reflex and put your arm up to protect your head when the goons are smacking you around because you were "resisting arrest", and get charged with a federal felony for "assaulting a federal official"... it's happened. And we've not even counted ther millions that have, and will, be wasted from OUR tax dollars to defend against unacceptible conduct of TSA people against innocent travelers, with NO provocation.
Good job that six year old girl is not MY daughter, and I wasn't there. I'd have flat refused that female's demands to treat her like that. No way would I ever allow any other person's hands to feel all over her body and get inside her pants. That is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG... I don't care if it cost our plane tickets..... that agent would NOT have ever gotten her hands on MY little girl. A Father is BOUND to defend his children against such outrages.... if that ever happened inside my home, that female would now be well on her way to being a registered sex offender..... and her being a "government agent" makes NO difference. It is STILL child molestation and sexual assault.
I truly hope the State of Texas manages to pass their "boot the TSA" law... no pornoscanners, and sexual assault will remain sexual assault no matter WHO does it or why..... feel up a passenger at an airport, go to jail on felony charges. GO TEXAS......
Chap
Member
Here you go rdc2co,
Just in case you or others want a shirt. I bought the shirt from - Link Removed
They sell the shirt with the front logo standard. I had the words printed on the back. You can have anything put on the back, if you like my idea feel free to use it. I saw it online somewhere and it made me laugh.
Chap
Just in case you or others want a shirt. I bought the shirt from - Link Removed
They sell the shirt with the front logo standard. I had the words printed on the back. You can have anything put on the back, if you like my idea feel free to use it. I saw it online somewhere and it made me laugh.
Chap
I'm going to start my own airline. I promise there will be no TSA patdowns. I promise everyone will breeze through the metal detector with never a beep. I promise your "security screening" will be 80% faster than any other airlines. I have only requirement. All clothing must be in checked baggage and you must remain naked from baggage check-in, throughout the flight, to baggage claim.
Until we have a rectal bomber.
Until we have a rectal bomber.
Boomboy007
New member
I am flying to Seattle next week, and to Vegas in early June (going to Front Sight, baby!). I will refuse the pornoscan, and if forced to undergo the rape pat, I fully intend to embarrass the screener as much as humanly possible. The entire time he is touching me inappropriately, I will be moaning and adding my own dialogue to the proceeding.
"Oh, yeah, baby. Right there. A little left, oh yeah, don't stop! Ohh, do you like it, baby?"
Wonder how quick my pat down will go?
"Oh, yeah, baby. Right there. A little left, oh yeah, don't stop! Ohh, do you like it, baby?"
Wonder how quick my pat down will go?
Nightmare45
NRA LIFE MEMBER
When in service was trusted with key for 9 megatons on Titan II, MAD was the operating wisdom (Mutually Assured Distruction) you touch my junk as I hold yours for a MAD moment. LOL
H
handgonnetoter
Guest
The TSA is just another police force among too many police forces in this country. The government makes another police force as a "feel good" response to violence. It does nothing but create another money pit for our tax dollars to be thrown into. In this country, a long time ago, they did not have nearly as many police forces, but they did have public hangings. That was a much stronger message to criminals than more prisons and more police forces ever will be. JMHO.
H
handgonnetoter
Guest
They will probably pull you to the side and give you the third degree. The Gestapo and the KGB would have been proud.
Boomboy007
New member
You may be right, but I will simply let your signature speak for me, too.
No intention to offend anyone....
Chap- Thanks for the link. I already have a couple of friends who want them, too! LMAO
NavyLT- I want to fly on your airline when you get Victoria's Secret as a sponsor! LOL
For everyone else:
It is not my intention to hurt anybody's feelings. Here are some facts- there have been numerous attempts on aircraft, some are public info, some are not. I am privy to most of them. Remember the 'shoe bomber' a few years ago?
Airline terror plots and attacks since 2001 | World news | guardian.co.uk
Terrorism:Attempt to Bomb Northwest Airlines Flight 253 on Christmas Day, 2009
Fact: I had friends and family in WTC 9-11-01. I miss them very much.
Fact: The Fourth Amendment was not written before terrorism was such a wide issue.
Fact: Yes, lots of things get through airport security. That's WHY they are buckling down. I have friends whose job it is to try to get things past the screeners. I know that song and dance well.
Fact: No warrant or 'probable cause' is needed at the courthouse, Mint, or Military Base. These places are looked at under special circumstances.
Fact: I, too, have learned the hard way to keep valuables with me in my carry-on. Luggage theft is nothing new. I know people who had stuff stolen from their luggage in 1933 and another guy lost stuff in 1949. That will never change. Any time you relinquish control of personal belongings, you risk possible theft. It happens and there's nothing anyone can do about it. put a dirty diaper in your bag and some idiot will eventually steal it.....
Look here!
LiveLeak.com - DHS Warns Of Pregnant Prosthetic Belly Bombings
BTW: Yes, that was her head hitting the camera....
Enough said?
Chap- Thanks for the link. I already have a couple of friends who want them, too! LMAO
NavyLT- I want to fly on your airline when you get Victoria's Secret as a sponsor! LOL
For everyone else:
It is not my intention to hurt anybody's feelings. Here are some facts- there have been numerous attempts on aircraft, some are public info, some are not. I am privy to most of them. Remember the 'shoe bomber' a few years ago?
Airline terror plots and attacks since 2001 | World news | guardian.co.uk
Terrorism:Attempt to Bomb Northwest Airlines Flight 253 on Christmas Day, 2009
Fact: I had friends and family in WTC 9-11-01. I miss them very much.
Fact: The Fourth Amendment was not written before terrorism was such a wide issue.
Fact: Yes, lots of things get through airport security. That's WHY they are buckling down. I have friends whose job it is to try to get things past the screeners. I know that song and dance well.
Fact: No warrant or 'probable cause' is needed at the courthouse, Mint, or Military Base. These places are looked at under special circumstances.
Fact: I, too, have learned the hard way to keep valuables with me in my carry-on. Luggage theft is nothing new. I know people who had stuff stolen from their luggage in 1933 and another guy lost stuff in 1949. That will never change. Any time you relinquish control of personal belongings, you risk possible theft. It happens and there's nothing anyone can do about it. put a dirty diaper in your bag and some idiot will eventually steal it.....
Look here!
LiveLeak.com - DHS Warns Of Pregnant Prosthetic Belly Bombings
Enough said?
the shoe bomber was a sick joke.. likely a false flag plant. The pantybomber certainly was... didja read how he got a private escort past the TSA in Amsterdam? who WERE those two men in suits that escorted him from the ticket counter? Bit Sista Jannie said "the system worked"... no, that's a lie. The system was shortcircuited to get him on the plane, TSA were in place but did NOT screen him, his lame bomb was NOT found.... the "system" that did work is the ONLY one that is reliable, it has been in place for centuries, and costs ZERO tax dollars... private citizens, alert, and ready to do whatever it takes to bring a threat under control. No air marshalls on that plane.. how convenient, eh?...
The shoebomber resulted in a stupid kneeejerk reaction, now everyone has to take their shoes off to board an airplane. (too bad ya can't go barefoot in the airports, right?). Even stupider kneejerk reaction to the pantybomber: move a few hundred "body scanners" from the warehouses where they were sitting, at the ready, for "just such a situation"... funny, the timing, isn't it? Even funnier were the outright lies TSA told us... they can't store images, they're safe, they can detect things like the pantybomber's device..... they can, and do, store and transmit images... read the specs sent round by TSA for the requirements for these machines. They are NOT safe.... radiation is many times that of a chest X-ray.. and concentrated on the skin, which is not equipped to handle it. And they can NOT detect devices like the one used on Northwest Amsterdam to Detroit in December 2009.
Can anyone cite a third SERIOUS attempt... actually, ANY serious attempt, as neither the shoe nor britches bombers were serious attempts.
As to Fourth Ammendment..... I don't care how big a threat terrorism gets, the Fourth Ammendment stands... and is the LAW of the land. Read your history and find out WHY they insisted on writing that one. And don't tell me about courthouses, mints, or military bases.... these are, effectively, private businesses, and pose a high risk of danger to those working them. Even so, those lawfully carrying concealed weapons should yet be able to in those places. Remember, we had a serious terrorist attack at Fort Hood, where a moslem whackjob preyed on a "gun free zone" and held a massacre. Dontcha get it, "gun free zones" are criminal safe zones... outlaw weapons for the law-abiding, guess who WILL have them? And does.... Bear in mind, as well, that for courts and the like, they do screen everyone entering, there ARE armed LEO present, and, for the most part, we have the option of not going there. In any case, I would take a strong stand that even those searches violate the Fourth Ammendment. The mints, and military bases, are, in effect, private property..... access restricted to those who work there. Try and enter a military base without a weapon..... for the most part, can't do it. Nor can I enter Microsoft's facility in Bellevue, or behind the counter at my local bank, or the Starbucks Headquarters in Seattle.....
One more question, then I'm done..... (whew......) How many attempts have been made, during the past ten years, on passengers or the airliners themselves, of Israel's airline? How much "screening" is there done as passengers board? How much money do Israel spend annually on airport security? Compare those with the insanity we endure here in the USA.... the "land of the free and home of the brave"...... sorry, but we are NOT free here, and, because we have been trained to rely on the government for everything, bravery is almost a thing of the past. But not entirely... remember WHO neutralised the pantybomber as he tried to detonate his "device?..... and WHO neutralised the threat in progress as the Tucson Arizona shooter effected his destruction... and WHO neutralised the threat in progress at Virginia Tech..... and WHO neutralised the threat in progress at Columbine?
The shoebomber resulted in a stupid kneeejerk reaction, now everyone has to take their shoes off to board an airplane. (too bad ya can't go barefoot in the airports, right?). Even stupider kneejerk reaction to the pantybomber: move a few hundred "body scanners" from the warehouses where they were sitting, at the ready, for "just such a situation"... funny, the timing, isn't it? Even funnier were the outright lies TSA told us... they can't store images, they're safe, they can detect things like the pantybomber's device..... they can, and do, store and transmit images... read the specs sent round by TSA for the requirements for these machines. They are NOT safe.... radiation is many times that of a chest X-ray.. and concentrated on the skin, which is not equipped to handle it. And they can NOT detect devices like the one used on Northwest Amsterdam to Detroit in December 2009.
Can anyone cite a third SERIOUS attempt... actually, ANY serious attempt, as neither the shoe nor britches bombers were serious attempts.
As to Fourth Ammendment..... I don't care how big a threat terrorism gets, the Fourth Ammendment stands... and is the LAW of the land. Read your history and find out WHY they insisted on writing that one. And don't tell me about courthouses, mints, or military bases.... these are, effectively, private businesses, and pose a high risk of danger to those working them. Even so, those lawfully carrying concealed weapons should yet be able to in those places. Remember, we had a serious terrorist attack at Fort Hood, where a moslem whackjob preyed on a "gun free zone" and held a massacre. Dontcha get it, "gun free zones" are criminal safe zones... outlaw weapons for the law-abiding, guess who WILL have them? And does.... Bear in mind, as well, that for courts and the like, they do screen everyone entering, there ARE armed LEO present, and, for the most part, we have the option of not going there. In any case, I would take a strong stand that even those searches violate the Fourth Ammendment. The mints, and military bases, are, in effect, private property..... access restricted to those who work there. Try and enter a military base without a weapon..... for the most part, can't do it. Nor can I enter Microsoft's facility in Bellevue, or behind the counter at my local bank, or the Starbucks Headquarters in Seattle.....
One more question, then I'm done..... (whew......) How many attempts have been made, during the past ten years, on passengers or the airliners themselves, of Israel's airline? How much "screening" is there done as passengers board? How much money do Israel spend annually on airport security? Compare those with the insanity we endure here in the USA.... the "land of the free and home of the brave"...... sorry, but we are NOT free here, and, because we have been trained to rely on the government for everything, bravery is almost a thing of the past. But not entirely... remember WHO neutralised the pantybomber as he tried to detonate his "device?..... and WHO neutralised the threat in progress as the Tucson Arizona shooter effected his destruction... and WHO neutralised the threat in progress at Virginia Tech..... and WHO neutralised the threat in progress at Columbine?
Psyk00diver
New member
Well lookie there, the TSA set up shop (Oct. 2011) in the police state of TN! Who would of thunk it? TSA on the highways and in bus stops???? HMMM? They say the TSA was invited into the state, by the state to do a test. Ya it was a test, a test to see how much flack the lawabiding citizens would bring up! Keep quite Americans and we will ask you for your papers just so you can walk to the corner store to pick up a loaf of bread and a six pack.
Lowjiber
New member
The TSA is the lowest scum-of-the-earth. Their "agents" have stolen so much from my luggage in the past ten years that I've quit filing claims for reimbursement. It's an agency that was established with good intentions, but has always been ran by idiots...remember when a nail clipper was considered a weapon?
Add to their management incompetence the fact that they hire the lowest-common-denominator employees and they've infiltrated their own organization with perverts, one-bullet-Barneys, and downright idiots.
The terrorists have already won.
re theft from luggage
Yes, theft of items from luggage is a definite issue. I write (or type) up an inventory of everything in each piece of luggage. I copy it and keep it with me and one in the luggage item itself- just to let them know that I'm keeping track of my stuff. So far, it has worked- at least for two trips, anyway.
If I buy items while on vacation (gifts, souvenirs, etc), I write that separately on the bottom of the sheet. Once again, this lets them know: "Hey, you're being watched." I had some prescription medications for migraines removed from a suitcase. Six tablets = roughly $100.00- I bet they made a good profit.....I no longer put anything of any value in my suitcase. Wal-Mart has some re-usable shopping bags that I buy and put in my suitcase. If I buy something, I just have one extra carry on............
Yes, theft of items from luggage is a definite issue. I write (or type) up an inventory of everything in each piece of luggage. I copy it and keep it with me and one in the luggage item itself- just to let them know that I'm keeping track of my stuff. So far, it has worked- at least for two trips, anyway.
If I buy items while on vacation (gifts, souvenirs, etc), I write that separately on the bottom of the sheet. Once again, this lets them know: "Hey, you're being watched." I had some prescription medications for migraines removed from a suitcase. Six tablets = roughly $100.00- I bet they made a good profit.....I no longer put anything of any value in my suitcase. Wal-Mart has some re-usable shopping bags that I buy and put in my suitcase. If I buy something, I just have one extra carry on............
Nightmare45
NRA LIFE MEMBER
Fly out to Vegas and AZ on regular basis, Vegas for the National Finals Rodeo and Az to visit friends and family, fly with a weapon all the time two pound western belt buckle on end of 3' leather belt. No issues. TSA is usless waste of time.
Punch
New member
Yes, that pretty much explains it.
Just curious... if there is ever a "rectal" bomber.... will you be OK with the new procedures that TSA will be sure to implement when that happens?
mappow
New member
Damm CDR, maybe they would have to develop a new scanner. I've heard Barney Frank is retiring. Maybe he's already done some R&D on this.
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