CC in OK with a mental illness

[davcommander]

I am a disabled veteran diagnosed with Major Depression. The first time I took the SDA course, on the form it asked is I had ever been diagnosed with a mental illness. As I held a OK nursing license, it was on file that I had been. That meant that I had to reply I had. This was bad enough, but it allowed for my treating psychiatrist to sigh off that I had been stable on meds for 10 years. The VA would not do it because they did not want to assume any responsibility. I can however legally purchase and own firearms and I own 2 handguns, 2 rifles and 2 shotguns all but one purchased since I was told I couldn't get my carry license. Fast forward 5 years and I am told that the VA will now sign off. Hopefully this year I will be able to afforded my constitutional right to bear arms. My questions to you are: Has anyone else experienced this either in OK or elsewhere? Is it fair that as a disabled veteran that I should be governed like this? What do you suggest as ways to get this law changed?

 

[tricolordad]

Why even talk to those tards at the VA in the first place?! Theres your first mistake...

 

[davcommander]

To dad

Why even talk to those tards at the VA in the first place?! Theres your first mistake...

You did not answer or reply to my questions and why deal with the VA? Because I am a 100% disabled veteran that can not get care anywhere else as a result of inability to afford out of pocket expenses. Why deal with the VA? Because I have been going there for almost 30 years and they literally saved my life from problems caused by outside the VA providers. Why go to the VA? Because it is an excellent place to get quality care. Do they have their problems? Of course, show me some place that doesn't. But what they do (for free) for the outrageously high number of people they see everyday, you can not find a better place to go. It is unfortunate that you feel the way you do about them, but you obviously have not gone to my VA.

 

[tricolordad]

No offense intended

You did not answer or reply to my questions and why deal with the VA? Because I am a 100% disabled veteran that can not get care anywhere else as a result of inability to afford out of pocket expenses. Why deal with the VA? Because I have been going there for almost 30 years and they literally saved my life from problems caused by outside the VA providers. Why go to the VA? Because it is an excellent place to get quality care. Do they have their problems? Of course, show me some place that doesn't. But what they do (for free) for the outrageously high number of people they see everyday, you can not find a better place to go. It is unfortunate that you feel the way you do about them, but you obviously have not gone to my VA.

I asked this because in the end, ONLY YOU have the power to decide what YOU DO. No amount of medication will stop you from succumbing to depression. So lets say you take something that makes you into a drooling vegetable...It will wear off, you're a grown man able to make grown man decisions. Do you take it again and sleep another day away? Or do you not take it and MAN UP? If you're going to do it, its a decision that you make. No doctor can fix how you feel. That's your responsibility. It does help to talk about your feelings, but Psychology is by definition, a collection of theories. Theories are not proven, only assumptions. Psychology is a business, a lucrative booming business in an age where people prefer to let somebody else handle their problems. Psychologists often get kickbacks from the pharmaceutical companies for referrals. Try and think of one single time you emotionally felt like garbage and a medication fixed the underlying problem. ( I.E. A few of my buddies are dead, can Zoloft fix that? Hell no!). Not being a jerk, just explaining my response.

I suggest you ask the mods to delete this thread so that you don't become a target to the idiots who troll forums like these.

 

[hogwylde]

I suggest you ask the mods to delete this thread so that you don't become a target to the idiots who troll forums like these.

Now ain't that calling the kettle black!!

 

[tricolordad]

Now ain't that calling the kettle black!!

Ha! calling me a troll for calling bs on your buddy is no better than what you're accusing me of doing.

 

[rdp357]

You did not answer or reply to my questions and why deal with the VA? Because I am a 100% disabled veteran that can not get care anywhere else as a result of inability to afford out of pocket expenses. Why deal with the VA? Because I have been going there for almost 30 years and they literally saved my life from problems caused by outside the VA providers. Why go to the VA? Because it is an excellent place to get quality care. Do they have their problems? Of course, show me some place that doesn't. But what they do (for free) for the outrageously high number of people they see everyday, you can not find a better place to go. It is unfortunate that you feel the way you do about them, but you obviously have not gone to my VA.

+1 on the VA, if it were not for them I would not be here today!!!!

 

[joatesiii]

Hi davcom...I have not had your experience here in Okla and my layman's opinion on getting that law changed would not be hopeful...perhaps if you have a friend in the State Senate or Governor's office, you would have a starting place for someone to intercede for you...other than that, I think you will be working with the system as it is. That law is in place for a purpose and it sounds like you are caught in it...and, thank you for your service...

 

[hogwylde]

Ha! calling me a troll for calling bs on your buddy is no better than what you're accusing me of doing.

I was referring to the attacking.

 

[kelcarry]

I think it is a shame that this thread has degenerated into an embarrassing name calling etal. Personally, as is the case with "what ifs" after the fact, I find it hard to allow someone, who seems to have clinically diagnosed depression problems, to be given any form of permission to posess a firearm or a CCWP. I do not know all the particulars and we will never really know since we are hearing only from the aggrieved, but I do not wish to see a headline that G-d forbid involves a vet, who has been diagnosed as depressive, going off on a rant and doing harm with a firearm. IMO there is a limit to "rights". Just saying.

 

[hogwylde]

I think it is a shame that this thread has degenerated into an embarrassing name calling etal. Personally, as is the case with "what ifs" after the fact, I find it hard to allow someone, who seems to have clinically diagnosed depression problems, to be given any form of permission to posess a firearm or a CCWP. I do not know all the particulars and we will never really know since we are hearing only from the aggrieved, but I do not wish to see a headline that G-d forbid involves a vet, who has been diagnosed as depressive, going off on a rant and doing harm with a firearm. IMO there is a limit to "rights". Just saying.

I understand what you're saying and I see your point. What I objected to was the immediate attack on the VA and an individual suffering from depression who was asking an honest question. In regards to an individual doing harm with a firearm, could it happen? Does it happen? Has it happened? Sure. But how many people have gone on to cause great harm with a firearm who were NOT clinically depressed? Most would be my guess.

 

[localgirl]

People with depressive disorders are no more likely to go on a killing spree as any other group of people. In fact, they are less likley. Depression doesn't make you hate other people, it makes you hate yourself.
***
To tricoloreddad, you may want to do some research into antidepressants and how they work. Although their form of action isn't completely understood, it is quite clear that they increase levels of seratonin and dopamine, both chemicals necessary for proper mood regulation. These chemicals are imbalanced or far too low in the majority of people suffering from depression. With medication, depressed people can get control over their moods and come out of the darkness that keeps them trapped. It also means they can finally deal with things like PTSD instead of hiding away or trying to drown their problems with alcohol. And no, antidepressants do not make you numb, drooling, or idiotic. Some anti-psychotics can do that, but that is an entirely different animal.
***
kelcarry, it's not fair at all to say that people who are depressed don't have the same right to defend themselves as you do. As long as someone hasn't shown violent tendencies or proved themselves a threat to others, they have the right to possess a firearm. Would you also take away their right to own knives, axes, and motor vehicles? True, they may choose to use a gun against themselves, but they also might choose to overdose, open a vein, or jump off a cliff. And frankly, if someone really wants to take their life, I believe it's their right.
***
I think many of you are confusing depression with other mental illness like schizophrenia, antisocial behavior, or personality disorders.
***
Almost 25 percent of Americans are classified as mentally ill, and of those, some 1 in 10 suffer or have suffered from depression. That's an awful lot of people to summarily dismiss. Unless an individual has demonstrated he is a danger to others, it should not be your right, nor the government's right, to interfere in his life and his constitutionally guaranteed freedoms.

 

[davcommander]

Depressed in OK

I think it is a shame that this thread has degenerated into an embarrassing name calling etal. Personally, as is the case with "what ifs" after the fact, I find it hard to allow someone, who seems to have clinically diagnosed depression problems, to be given any form of permission to posess a firearm or a CCWP. I do not know all the particulars and we will never really know since we are hearing only from the aggrieved, but I do not wish to see a headline that G-d forbid involves a vet, who has been diagnosed as depressive, going off on a rant and doing harm with a firearm. IMO there is a limit to "rights". Just saying.

Thank you for actually replying to the post. However, I believe you may be basing your reply on an unproven stereotype. First someone that has been diagnosed with clinical depression is very unlikely to go on a shooting rampage. Stats and research have shown that a clinically depressed person may take their own life, and possibly that of their loved ones, but have on an statistically insignificant occurrence taken the life of others. Someone that has been stable on medication or any other manner for at least 10 years is no more likely to take a life as anyone else. Then to further support my case are all the law enforcement personnel that have been diagnosed with PTSD, yet have no problems with their disease and their ability to handle firearms in a safe manner. A question for you is the brain is an organ. You are saying that since there is a problem with an organ in my body I should be restricted from a Constitutional right. Would you say the same thing to someone that has had a heart attack? And don't say that is different because it is not. If I wanted to have a weapon and I wanted to use it, regardless of my mental condition or any other problem I could get one and use it. There has not to my knowledge been any documented case of someone that has a CCW legally has "gone off on a rant". It is those that are the bad guys that do that. Having a diagnosis for more than 30 years and I am as stable as someone that has no problems should not be restricted.

 

[davcommander]

People with depressive disorders are no more likely to go on a killing spree as any other group of people. In fact, they are less likley. Depression doesn't make you hate other people, it makes you hate yourself.
***
To tricoloreddad, you may want to do some research into antidepressants and how they work. Although their form of action isn't completely understood, it is quite clear that they increase levels of seratonin and dopamine, both chemicals necessary for proper mood regulation. These chemicals are imbalanced or far too low in the majority of people suffering from depression. With medication, depressed people can get control over their moods and come out of the darkness that keeps them trapped. It also means they can finally deal with things like PTSD instead of hiding away or trying to drown their problems with alcohol. And no, antidepressants do not make you numb, drooling, or idiotic. Some anti-psychotics can do that, but that is an entirely different animal.
***
kelcarry, it's not fair at all to say that people who are depressed don't have the same right to defend themselves as you do. As long as someone hasn't shown violent tendencies or proved themselves a threat to others, they have the right to possess a firearm. Would you also take away their right to own knives, axes, and motor vehicles? True, they may choose to use a gun against themselves, but they also might choose to overdose, open a vein, or jump off a cliff. And frankly, if someone really wants to take their life, I believe it's their right.
***
I think many of you are confusing depression with other mental illness like schizophrenia, antisocial behavior, or personality disorders.
***
Almost 25 percent of Americans are classified as mentally ill, and of those, some 1 in 10 suffer or have suffered from depression. That's an awful lot of people to summarily dismiss. Unless an individual has demonstrated he is a danger to others, it should not be your right, nor the government's right, to interfere in his life and his constitutionally guaranteed freedoms.

Thank you localgirl, you sum up my opinion and argument very well. You did not come to my defense, but to the defense of everyone that has this illness.

 

[davcommander]

Joatesiii, Thanks for the suggestion. I think I will start on this. I do have friends on both sides in both the House and Senate. What do you think of the G30? I was looking @ the G30, 36, 38 or 39. Semper Fi and even though a couple of days early, Happy Birthday Marine. :thank_you2:

 

[kelcarry]

I understand what you're saying and I see your point. What I objected to was the immediate attack on the VA and an individual suffering from depression who was asking an honest question. In regards to an individual doing harm with a firearm, could it happen? Does it happen? Has it happened? Sure. But how many people have gone on to cause great harm with a firearm who were NOT clinically depressed? Most would be my guess.

In recent memory, and check me if I am wrong, the majority if not all of the recent "bloodbaths" from Columbine on, always seem to have the same basic facts and after the fact comments. "Why didn't anybody recognize his problem?", "Why didn't anybody do anything about it when they knew he had a problem?". I know you understand where I am coming from. I disagree, however, with your last statements--just because no one really looked at everyone who has committed "great harm", that does not mean that they were just perfect well-adjusted individuals--quite the opposite---to commit atrocities is not something a "normal" person does and if there is evidence of a social/mental problem before the fact, IMO, you do not allow them the opportunity to cause a problem with a sanctioned firearm. Draconian--maybe. I am tired of reading about these atrocities and having associated stories about some kind of social/mental problem explaining their actions---and these, IMO, are not the isolated cases, they seem to be all the cases. "Normal" people do not go on these rampaging atrocities.

 

[tricolordad]

I was referring to the attacking.

I was not attacking anybody.

 

[tricolordad]

Thank you for actually replying to the post. However, I believe you may be basing your reply on an unproven stereotype. First someone that has been diagnosed with clinical depression is very unlikely to go on a shooting rampage. Stats and research have shown that a clinically depressed person may take their own life, and possibly that of their loved ones, but have on an statistically insignificant occurrence taken the life of others. Someone that has been stable on medication or any other manner for at least 10 years is no more likely to take a life as anyone else. Then to further support my case are all the law enforcement personnel that have been diagnosed with PTSD, yet have no problems with their disease and their ability to handle firearms in a safe manner. A question for you is the brain is an organ. You are saying that since there is a problem with an organ in my body I should be restricted from a Constitutional right. Would you say the same thing to someone that has had a heart attack? And don't say that is different because it is not. If I wanted to have a weapon and I wanted to use it, regardless of my mental condition or any other problem I could get one and use it. There has not to my knowledge been any documented case of someone that has a CCW legally has "gone off on a rant". It is those that are the bad guys that do that. Having a diagnosis for more than 30 years and I am as stable as someone that has no problems should not be restricted.

I was not saying that you should not be able to protect yourself, but face the facts...you have constitutional rights and so does everybody else. Your 2A rights can't be placed above the general public's right to LIFE. LIFE LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS trump the others when you look at it from a 3rd party. You have to live with a couple of stigmata, one...YOU'RE A VET. People are afraid of veterans. Veterans are killers. Veterans are crazy. thank hollywood for those. Two...you're diagnosed as clinically depressed. Unfortunately to those who influence and write the laws, depressed doesn't mean sad, it means "crazy." Another unfortunate incidental is that those who are depressed or unstable generally are more likely to commit heinous acts of violence. When you throw in a man's military training, it only becomes that much worse if it does happen.
Another thing, if you've had surgery that saved your life, good. If it was a suicide attempt, it furthers the argument against you obtaining a permit.

Dont get me wrong, I've seen what you have. I know that feeling of loneliness and fear. I believe that you have more of a right to vote than those who didn't serve. Had you not been diagnosed with depression, then I would also have believed that you are more trustworthy than others and that you should be given a permit for free.

I dont see you getting the laws changed, bot because of depression, but because of other peoples 3 Fundamental rights, life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

You can hate the response, but you asked for input.

 

[Flanmedic51]

People with depressive disorders are no more likely to go on a killing spree as any other group of people. In fact, they are less likley. Depression doesn't make you hate other people, it makes you hate yourself.
***
To tricoloreddad, you may want to do some research into antidepressants and how they work. Although their form of action isn't completely understood, it is quite clear that they increase levels of seratonin and dopamine, both chemicals necessary for proper mood regulation. These chemicals are imbalanced or far too low in the majority of people suffering from depression. With medication, depressed people can get control over their moods and come out of the darkness that keeps them trapped. It also means they can finally deal with things like PTSD instead of hiding away or trying to drown their problems with alcohol. And no, antidepressants do not make you numb, drooling, or idiotic. Some anti-psychotics can do that, but that is an entirely different animal.
***
kelcarry, it's not fair at all to say that people who are depressed don't have the same right to defend themselves as you do. As long as someone hasn't shown violent tendencies or proved themselves a threat to others, they have the right to possess a firearm. Would you also take away their right to own knives, axes, and motor vehicles? True, they may choose to use a gun against themselves, but they also might choose to overdose, open a vein, or jump off a cliff. And frankly, if someone really wants to take their life, I believe it's their right.
***
I think many of you are confusing depression with other mental illness like schizophrenia, antisocial behavior, or personality disorders.
***
Almost 25 percent of Americans are classified as mentally ill, and of those, some 1 in 10 suffer or have suffered from depression. That's an awful lot of people to summarily dismiss. Unless an individual has demonstrated he is a danger to others, it should not be your right, nor the government's right, to interfere in his life and his constitutionally guaranteed freedoms.

Very well put! Here in Maine background checks for permits are done in the 2 State in-patient forensic psych hospitals. I mean, seems like everyone has depression but it doesn't make them killers and even cops have Rx's for Paxil, etc. Those with PTSD or anger issues may present more of an issue. But I digress, good points.

 

[tricolordad]

Localgirl, when they're administering these drugs based on speculation, a collection of unproven THEORIES, then it becomes more of a drug test. I put no stock into mind altering drugs. They're no different than street drugs and just as addictive. Some of those intended to treat depression actually make it worse or so dilute the persons reality that they take their own life. Don't believe me? Watch the text at the bottom of the screen on the commercials.