Mr. Steadman,
I know some of my replies were harsh. And for the ones that you feel were over the top, I apologize. I believe your heart is in the right place. Here is one of the "issues" that I have that you made mention to earlier. In one post, you stated, "As a former CA LEO I can tell you that....". Why did you start with, "As a former CA LEO"? And why do you have "Instructor" under your screen name? Honestly....is it only because your want people to know what your past and current professions are? Or, in a discussion such as this, is it so that your posts will seem to be the definitive answer to the question backed by professional qualification? First you present your qualifications, and then you make statements that seem to be authoritative statements of fact. My issue is that in being on these gun forums for about five years I have seen 100s of posts made by qualified people that either contain completely erroneous information, easily proven incorrect by factual sources or contain the person's opinion which they state as fact, which may or may not be true for all readers. Usually these posts have one thing in common - they start off with "I am a professional!" and then they go to say, "This is the way it is." And there is one key element always missing - a citation to the statute or research that backs up their post. They use their professional title to back up what they say rather than a factual reference source. When I see a post like that it raises the hair on my neck.
I believe that you posted what you were taught as a California Law Enforcement Officer many years ago. Whether or not what you were taught then was the actual statutory law or not, I don't know. It might have been, or it could have been simply what you were taught. Here is another "issue" I have. Let's take the ammo can't be in the gun case statement. Joe Citizen travels to CA to see his family. He's a working guy with a wife and two kids and they saved up all year to make this trip. They enter California and he unloads his gun, puts the magazines, gun, ammo in a case with a lock on it and slides it under his driver's seat. He gets stopped for speeding.
So, first thing he does is tell Officer Friendly, "Sir, I feel obligated to tell you I have an unloaded pistol in a case under my seat." Officer Friendly knows Joe is from out of state and may not know all of CA gun laws so he says, "Joe, do you mind if I see the gun to make sure everything is OK?" Joe says, "Sure," retrieves the case, opens the lock and hands it to Officer Friendly. Officer Friendly opens the case, and there is the gun, a 10 round CA compliant magazine, and a box of ammo (just like I would transport my gun!). "Whoa, wait a minute!" says Officer Friendly. You can't have this ammo in here with the gun! He writes Joe a ticket for speeding and improper transportation of the gun. So now what can Joe do? 1. He doesn't have money for a lawyer. 2. He has to go back to work, he doesn't have time to fight a charge in CA court. So, at a minimum Joe has to borrow money on his emergency credit card to pay a fine when he was in compliance with CA firearms law the whole time. OR Joe has to show up at court and plead guilty to a misdemeanor just to get it over with because he doesn't have the time or money for a trial, now Joe has a firearms related criminal record.
First, Joe told the officer about a lawfully possessed item that chances are 99% would never have been an issue. I've gotten stopped many times in the past for speeding - my problem that I have fixed - and I have NEVER been asked about a firearm, I have NEVER had my vehicle searched during a traffic stop, and I was only asked to exit the vehicle once and the gun in the holster on my belt was not noticed or no reaction was given to it by the officer. Second, Joe consented to a search of his property. Finally, the officer writes him a citation for either what the officer THOUGHT was the law, or what the officer KNEW was bogus but didn't care because he was operating out of his own personal disdain for citizens possessing firearms. However, Joe is at least 2/3 responsible for what happened because he didn't exercise his rights.
That's why I post the way that i do. Hopefully, Glockman131 will read our discussion, he will see the links to the factual information, he can make an informed decision whether or not he wants to simply obey the law - or whether he wants to cater to the recommendations (not requirements) of what will lessen the chance of getting hassled by LEO. And, if he finds himself in the situation of Joe above he will be better informed of what his rights are, what are the requirements in law are, and he can take the precautions to protect himself so he doesn't end up paying a fine or copping a plea for something that was never illegal to begin with.
I know you don't believe this, Mr. Steadman, but I am not anti-cop. But here's the deal. Very few occupations in this world have the potential to affect my bank account balance and my spotlessly clean record like police officers. 99% if not more of police officers are fine, upstanding, hard working people who choose to take a job that I never would. They face political pressure. They face scorn and hatred from many people because it is only the 1% of bad ones that make the news most of the time. Most of them will perform many heroic acts in their careers that will never get noticed. But, that being said, when I interact with a police officer I MUST take the simple actions to protect myself from the consequences of either the police officer making a simple mistake, or the chance that the police officer I am dealing with is one of the 1% of bad cops. I don't have to be rude or disrespectful to take those simple actions. "Sir, are you detaining me?" "Sir, I hope you have a nice and safe day, but I am not going to answer any questions and I am going to leave now, if you aren't detaining me." "No, sir, I won't give you permission to look in my gun case or trunk of my car." And just plain keep my mouth shut about things that I am under no legal obligation to tell the police officer about!
:wacko::stop::stop:
