Body armor

[AvidshooterTX]

Most of us are carrying for protection against criminal attack. If the BG is armed with a gun and gets the drop on us how likely is it that we will prevail? We're relying on surprise and a lot of luck to be able to draw and fire before the BG does. Seems like we should be considering body armor. I admit I don't know much about the subject. Is it available to the general public? How much does it cost? Is it impractical to wear? Is there any such thing as comfortable body armor?

 

[Glock Fan]

Most of us are carrying for protection against criminal attack. If the BG is armed with a gun and gets the drop on us how likely is it that we will prevail? We're relying on surprise and a lot of luck to be able to draw and fire before the BG does. Seems like we should be considering body armor. I admit I don't know much about the subject. Is it available to the general public? How much does it cost? Is it impractical to wear? Is there any such thing as comfortable body armor?

There are several different types and levels of protection when it comes to body armor. For every day use, it's impractical and rather uncomfortable. Soft body armor traps body heat. Wearing specially designed under garments sometimes help, but most times not. Will it save your life, highly likely, is it something that most people want to wear every day? Probably not.

Then of course there's this guy:

gf

 

[Aresye]

Hehe, great pic!

Glock Fan pretty much summed up everything about soft body armor. It's uncomfortable, restricts movement, retains heat, and in the case of IWB type holster, you may actually have trouble accessing your gun. It will also only save you from most pistol rounds. Rifle rounds? No chance, however you were mentioning this in regards to a BG getting the drop on you. Probably unlikely with a rifle.

Now I got completely reamed in the other thread, about carrying around a pair of zip-tie cuffs, so I think it's only fair to state exactly what was said to me. Have you considered the possible legal repercussions if you're involved in an incident and were wearing body armor in addition to carrying? It's a bad combination that when viewed through the eyes of most law enforcement, you will appear to be the troublemaker. LEO's have not had good history facing people with body armor, and even though you may have saved the day for someone else, the LEO's will likely treat you as a suspect, or at the very least, be very suspicious of you.

On top of all that, it's expensive, and generally not sold to the public (LEO/MIL only). In your intended type of use, it's not worth it, and the few positives are greatly outweighed by the more likely negatives. However, if you're preparing for the unknown future, keeping body armor with ballistic plates is not a bad idea.

 

[jtg452]

Don't need it. I ain't got no business going someplace I MIGHT need body armor.

Being involved in a self defense confrontation (or Heaven forbid, a actual shooting) and having the LEO discover you are wearing a vest is gonna make it look like you are hunting for trouble. A clever DA with an agenda or the just opinion that you ARE guilty is gonna have a field day about how you were armored up and walking the streets.

"Maybe he could have avoided the confrontation with the deceased, but did he really try? After all, he was wearing body armor. He had nothing to fear from the deceased. Yet he shot him down in cold blood while invulnerable ...." Get the picture?

Yeah, I know that body armor doesn't make you Superman but the average jury don't. (DA's want dumb folks and Defense attorneys want smart ones.) All they know is what they see on TV and we all know how accurate Hollywood is when it comes to firearms.


Aresye,

I agree with the reaming you got about carrying flex cuffs. I have a Concealed Carry Permit, not a badge. The CCP doesn't give me Super Special Deputy of the World powers. It just means I can pass a general criminal background check and, depending on the state that issued it, can hit the wall of a barn from the inside with a pistol. I do not have arrest powers. I also do not care if he runs away. As a matter of fact, I actually want him to run away before he makes me shoot him. If I have to shoot, I ain't stopping until either the person(s) threatening my safety are out of the area and no longer a threat or they are incapacitated to such a level that the threat to my safety is ended. Either that or I'm so injured that I can't pull a trigger or perform a reload so I can pull the trigger some more.

 

[ClearSightTactical]

On top of all that, it's expensive, and generally not sold to the public (LEO/MIL only). In your intended type of use, it's not worth it, and the few positives are greatly outweighed by the more likely negatives. However, if you're preparing for the unknown future, keeping body armor with ballistic plates is not a bad idea.

Its not that expensive, you're talking about $400-800 depending on the level and brand. It is also not generally restricted but does vary by state. My state allows body armor.

Don't need it. I ain't got no business going someplace I MIGHT need body armor.

And that's where we get into a difference of opinion. If the neighborhood of my favorite resteraunt, the one i've been eating at since I was a kid turns into a 'bad area of town' then am I duty bound by some unspoken rule to not eat there? I understand what you're saying, but there is a point where if we just stay in our comfort zones the criminal element wins. If I drive an extra 20 minutes because i'm afraid to put gas in a certain part of town I've lost my freedom in a sense.

As for comfort, humans are extremely adaptable- that being said I rarely wear a vest even when on duty because its so freakin' hot and cumbersome, but if its something you feel you could wear day in and day out then more power to you. I'd also agree that if you were involved in some sort of deadly force incident it would raise some eyebrows.

 

[AvidshooterTX]

That's interesting. Body armor seems purely defensive in nature - no harm done to the BG if you can break contact without firing - while just a firearm requires hurting or killing the BG to end the encounter. But I guess the combination of armor with a firearm gives the wrong impression. I would not want to give up one for the other. Sounds like body armor has not reached the point of being comfortable enough or inexpensive enough for the average citizen so I guess I'll just have to continue to rely on my superior shooting skills. There's one service that Hollywood has been doing for us - and that is teaching the BG's to hold the gun incorrectly when they shoot.

 

[ClearSightTactical]

there's one service that hollywood has been doing for us - and that is teaching the bg's to hold the gun incorrectly when they shoot.

lmao!

 

[Aresye]

There's one service that Hollywood has been doing for us - and that is teaching the BG's to hold the gun incorrectly when they shoot.

6 Disastrous Ways Pop Culture Influences The Real World | Cracked.com WFS

Scroll down to #2 :biggrin:

 

[Anthony_I_Am]

I wore body armor in Texas for several years (security guard). For me, it's just too much hassle to wear on a daily basis, especially in the summer heat. For me the inconvenience outweights any probability that I might actually need it.

Flex cuffs are definately out of the question for me. I ain't detaining nobody! I'm either going to shoot to defend my life, or be a good witness for the police if the situation arises.

 

[theicemanmpls]

sideways sights

 

[roho-amarillo]

Most of us are carrying for protection against criminal attack. If the BG is armed with a gun and gets the drop on us how likely is it that we will prevail? We're relying on surprise and a lot of luck to be able to draw and fire before the BG does. Seems like we should be considering body armor. I admit I don't know much about the subject. Is it available to the general public? How much does it cost? Is it impractical to wear? Is there any such thing as comfortable body armor?

avid, it's available to anyone it's advertized in shotgun news i'm suprised they havn't made it illegal it may be in some places

 

[theicemanmpls]

avid, it's available to anyone it's advertized in shotgun news i'm suprised they havn't made it illegal it may be in some places

In certain areas, commiting a crime while wearing body armor is a crime also. Doulble wammy if caught.

 

[utimmer43]

In certain areas, committing a crime while wearing body armor is a crime also. Double wammy if caught.

In fact, in most of the states who's laws I have read so far, (I have yet to read them all, but I'm working on it:biggrin ex felons are prohibited from wearing body armor. (Kinda messed up, since they are prohibited from carrying a defensive weapon. The least we could do is allow them to wear a passive device for defense. But I digress...)

Don't need it. I ain't got no business going someplace I MIGHT need body armor.

Being involved in a self defense confrontation (or Heaven forbid, a actual shooting) and having the LEO discover you are wearing a vest is gonna make it look like you are hunting for trouble. A clever DA with an agenda or the just opinion that you ARE guilty is gonna have a field day about how you were armored up and walking the streets.

Really? Could the same not be said about carrying a firearm? Oh wait, it is often said about carrying a firearm. The argument is equally preposterous in either case.

 

[roho-amarillo]

Its not that expensive, you're talking about $400-800 depending on the level and brand. It is also not generally restricted but does vary by state. My state allows body armor.



And that's where we get into a difference of opinion. If the neighborhood of my favorite resteraunt, the one i've been eating at since I was a kid turns into a 'bad area of town' then am I duty bound by some unspoken rule to not eat there? I understand what you're saying, but there is a point where if we just stay in our comfort zones the criminal element wins. If I drive an extra 20 minutes because i'm afraid to put gas in a certain part of town I've lost my freedom in a sense.

As for comfort, humans are extremely adaptable- that being said I rarely wear a vest even when on duty because its so freakin' hot and cumbersome, but if its something you feel you could wear day in and day out then more power to you. I'd also agree that if you were involved in some sort of deadly force incident it would raise some eyebrows.

clear site, that's what i like most about this site you get a lot of new views on any subject you are right on with this one if we give up our freedom of movement it's just one more lost one thing i would like to add to anyone who has one don't let it give you a false sense of security it won't stop everything and it will only cover your torso

 

[ClearSightTactical]

clear site, that's what i like most about this site you get a lot of new views on any subject you are right on with this one if we give up our freedom of movement it's just one more lost one thing i would like to add to anyone who has one don't let it give you a false sense of security it won't stop everything and it will only cover your torso

Thanks. This site is awesome for evaluating a situation a full 360 degress when normally we just see our own thoughts, initially.

Good point about not giving you a false sense of security. Not only do they leave your neck, head, groin, legs, etc. exposed but depending on your body type even if you took a round in the vest you could still have major internal complications from the blunt trauma that it would cause up to and including death.

They're also "Bullet resistant" not Bullet "Proof".

 

[AvidshooterTX]

These are all valid points but when I first posted this I was thinking that our main objective is to survive an encounter with a BG. If we can capture or kill him great but all we want to do is live full, peaceful lives. That's why folks on this board for the most part don't advocate going to dangerous places, carrying flex cuffs (we're not cops), getting involved in a 3rd party encounter, etc. etc.

Seems to me that the gun provides some protection but it is more offensive in nature than defensive. If our main objective is to survive and fight another day my thinking was that we need something to stop the first bullet so that we have a chance to either run away if possible or draw and return fire. The BG is always going to make the first move.

 

[Aresye]

Definitely some valid points, and I completely see your reasoning behind wanting to wear body armor. The thing is, we really can't prepare ourselves for everything. The chance of any of us being in a situation where we ever have to draw our weapon, is pretty slim. Wearing body armor could potentially save you one day from a bad guy, but that's if they somehow come in guns blazing. That's why a lot of us choose not to sit at the front of a restaurant, and instead opt for a table where we can sit and observe who comes in, just incase. If you're walking by yourself, and a bad guy manages to corner you, then your awareness was way off to begin with.

The fact is, we can't be prepared for anything, and we all have to draw that line when it starts becoming impractical. The weight, cost, and discomfort of wearing body armor doesn't seem practical to me, for day in, day out wear. It may stop a 9mm, but anything more powerful than that and you're adding a blunt trauma pad (more weight, discomfort). It's also not even guaranteed that it will stop a round coming through, and most of the time they're only good for that first shot. It won't do diddly-squat against AP rounds, or any rifle round of any kind, unless you add in ballistic plates (way more weight, discomfort, and cost).

So, if you decide to invest in all this for personal protection, and can handle the discomfort, then good on you. Who knows, a person thinking along your lines could have lived instead of died, during the Washington sniper shootings. Then again, you could always end up getting hit in the head. I just don't really see any practicality in it at all. Of course now I'll probably end up getting shot right in the chest by a survivable round, had I been armored up

 

[AvidshooterTX]

Well I admitted not knowing much about the subject and wondered if technology had advanced to the point that it was affordable, lightweight and comfortable. Now that I know all 3 answers are "no" I'll continue to go naked.

 

[Glock Fan]

You can find lightweight body armor for $199. This will stop calibers up to .38 special. Not a whole lot of protection, but a lot better than nothing.

Keep in mind that most high power rifle rounds will penetrate your everyday "cop" body armor. Soft body armor is mainly designed to protect against handgun rounds.

I'm sure you'll be better off without body armor on an every day basis, but keep a vest in your SHTF kit or possibly in the trunk of your car. Never know when it will come in handy.



gf

 

[utimmer43]

Well I admitted not knowing much about the subject and wondered if technology had advanced to the point that it was affordable, lightweight and comfortable. Now that I know all 3 answers are "no" I'll continue to go naked.

Well, affordability and lightweight are subject to definition. (OK, technically comfort is too but let's face it, unless you live in the Yukon, it won't be comfortable year-round.) The price on ebay for level IIIA armor ranges from $150 to $400, and a size XL is in the 7 lb range. Now, that is the highest rating for soft armor and it's rated for a 44 magnum. I don't think too many gang bangers are toting around Dirty Harry guns. A level IIA is rated for 9mm or .40 S/W. That runs around $100-$150 and is a bit lighter. Neither those prices or weights seem too high to me, considering the purpose of the vest. If it weren't for the hot, humid summers I just might were one. But having to wring the sweat out of it every night is the deal breaker for me.