Best CCW 45 ACP?

[StogieC]

Can't go wrong with the Springfield XD .45

 

[SteveB]

The .45 ACP is an excellent personal defense caliber. I carry a Rock Island Armory compact daily. It is not too heavy, easily concealed, and packs a punch. Don't fall into military thinking and "use what everybody uses". Find a quality gun/adequate caliber combination, and practice until you are familiar, and comfortable with it.

 

[QBall45]

The best 45acp for ccw is the one YOU shoot best, fits YOUR hands best, the one YOU can trust YOUR life with.

That said, you really can't go wrong with a 1911. Take a look at the Springfield line.

 

[GottaBeAh.40]

I'm going to have to have a look at the G36. My only issue would be one of capacity, although I believe the G36 may take higher capacity mags on the reload if necessary. Articles I am reading right now suggest the average gun battle in a self defense situation averages only 6 rounds and 6 seconds max. Little need or time for reload, but I like to be prepared in any event... our last attempted home invasion was by two perps both armed with lord knows what. As soon as I said they would be coming out feet first if they made it into my home I hade twenty police cars on my front lawn... still have tire tracks and it's been over a year. The 911 operator suggested I find a safe room in my home to which I responded... "Lady, these idiots have guns and stell pry bars, there are NO safe rooms in this house, especially for them and I can promise you if they enter my home armed they are coming out feet first. Get some help here fast". And they did. I did not relish the thought of taking out two human beings but I was physically and mentally prepared to do so the moment they entered the front door.

So, my point? Two perps. Maybe a third that I did not see. Six rounds plus one just doesn't cut it and I like to use the same firearm for home and carry (where legal) - so I'm with a G30, G26 and Sig P239. I also have two HK P7 series pistols (8rounders) which are perfectly safe for pocket carry and I only buy jackets with deep pockets. I would not carry the others without a holster to protect the trigger. AND, I ALWAYS have FOUR spare magazines loaded up and ready to go for the handgun in use and empty for those not in use. So, generally I have approximately 50 rounds at hand at all times ready to go. That is what I consider my 'happy' number. The G36 is great for small hands as is the Sig P239, but I am disuaded by the available rounds.

If I were loooking for SMALL I think I would go for something even smaller - but since they aren't legal in Canada and I have to transport back and forth I have to go with something that has a 105 mm barrel and ten rounds max. And no carry outside of the home (nor inside to the letter of the law).

That G36 sure does look like it is going to feel good in my hand though. Can we put a NY1 trigger in it?

Yeah I know what ya mean. I use my G36 for CC and have my G23 with the higher capacity mags for home defense. I completely agree with you that the G30 would be a better choice for both scenarios. I'm glad your encounter ended well for ya, I've been there and know what the feeling is all about concerning the home invasion. It can really wake ya up to the (any time, any where) facts of how the dirtbags can strike at all hours of the day and night. Stay safe!

GBK

 

[torontogunguy]

you have carried a 9mm but now you want to carry a 45. I think it is odd that you started with a 9mm. In the field, Iraq, they have seen where it takes 11 rounds from the M9 to bring down one enemy. I like to do things right the first time, that means find a caliber that brings them down with one shot. That is the .45 ACP! Kimber is priced to not sell. Sig is a great gun and is easy to get back on target. Springfield Armory XD gives a nice price, but it has the polymer frame. Polymer frame gives a rotating recoil, this is the same on the Kahr. Best bet is to find a place that will let you try out the different versions of the 45. I like the 1911. My use is person safety in public and family safety while in bear country. The trouble with bear is they do not fall on the first shot.

I can promise you that there is no such thing as the one shot stop. Period. Do the research and learn.

COM hits (Center of Mass) are also a huge falacy and what you want to be aiming for is the center of the circulatory engine, which is a triangle roughly running between the nipples with the apex at the base of the neck. Stick a pie plate in the middle of that and you are going to get a 'bleed out' which will leave your bad guy with his engine running even with a hit to the heart itself, believe it or not.

The second triangle that one wants to consider is the "one shot stop" triangle. Its base runs along the lips horizontally with its apex at the bridge of the nose or base of the eyebrows. A hit in this zone MAY be a one shot stop but no guarantees although chances are much better as you are going to do mucho damage to the cerebral cortex.

In terms of calibre, the jury is still out after several years of study. The answer being given is to shoot what you can control, starting at 9mm. and moving upwards from there. There are many other considerations as you can well imagine.

My suggestion to you is to use and shoot regularly a 9mm and a .45 that mimic one another. I have both pairs (i.e. a Glock 26 and a Glock 30, both with NY1 triggers). I carry the G26 when it's warm out and I am wearing lighter clothing and I carry the G30 when it is cooler and I can use a heavier holster/belt/cover. Either way I do not feel undergunned - it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. The 9mm allows me very accurate shot placement while the .45 does more serious damage in most cases. I carry what will take +P+ rounds as I want maximum energy imparted to what I hit and maximum expansion and shock. Looking at forensic evidence of both types of rounds one will note that the damage done by either, in a well engineered bullet, is similar, with the .45 giving a slight advantage in a bleed out situation.

The essence that you should be remembering is that both guns, if you choose to carry two different ones, should have similar controls; you should use the best rounds money can buy and you should train to shoot fast enough to get away lots of rounds and slow enough to make those shots accurate. And you need to stop shooting when the threat is stopped, otherwise it is murder (in more ways than one).

Lately, I have started playing with a Sig P239 Tactical in 9mm and believe that I just may start carrying ONE concealed carry and that will be it. If I can place accurately two or three rounds of 9mm versus an accidental hit with a .45 I will go with the former. If I am faced, however, with having to shoot through obstructions like glass or drywall on a regular basis - I think I would probably go with the .357 Sig (or failing that with the .45 +P+).

There is no BEST .45 ACP really. It is whatever you are most comfortable with IMHO. It is what conceals well. And above all, it is what is TOTALLY reliable. Unfortunately, for me, the list of 1911's that I would bet my life on is a short one. Very short.

I can assure you that 5,000 rounds put through a Glock .45 of ANY kind is going to come out with close to zero malfunctions, whereas put through a 1911 you are going to get a whole handful with most. That's just the way it is and that's why I am using 1911's for competition where my life does not depend on it and a striker fired handgun like a Sig where my life depends on a dependable accurate shot. Or a Glock. I love the Glock 30 and it seems to me that I have heard experts like Ayoob say that it is a favourite carry (along with his P345). The choice is, of course, not an easy one and for sure it is not black and white.

So I muddle along with my Glock 26 and Glock 30, hoping that one day I will have conclusive evidence that well placed 9mm engineered rounds moving fast are going to get me the same or better results than .45ACP rounds that are not as well placed.

And then there's the controversy between wheel guns and semi-auto's. Another discussion?

 

[ricbak]

T G G Your work on this thread has been the best I have seen in the year that I have been here. Nicely Written

 

[Deadontarget]

Dan Wesson Bobtail SS!

Yes, the Dan Wesson Bobtail made my CZ is an awesome looking semi custom 1911. I had the opportunity to handle and compare one with a Wilson Professional the other day.
It has a few ED Brown parts and is a steal for about $1000. The Wilson Professional was about $3000! Despite only coming in SS, I can't see spending another $2000 for essentially the same gun.
The Wilson seemed to feel better in the hand and was lighter(allow frame vs SS), better trigger, but for $3000?
I guess if I had the extra $$$$ to spend, I'd get the Wilson, but this gun is for CCW purposes. I have also heard some fantastic reviews on the Dan Wesson and see that many dealers are back ordered for it. If the Dan Wesson came in black/blued steel, I'd probably get one. The SS is cool, but I have an ED Brown in SS already. I'll think it over the holidays and decide sometime in Jan/Feb. Link Removed

 

[torontogunguy]

As far as I am concerned the ideal CCW .45 is going to be small, reliable, light, good capacity, etc. AND AB|OVE ALL S>A>F>E> SAFE!

The latter is a tough one to put your finger on but I have decided that my Glock 30 with NY1 trigger fits the bill when carrying IWB or OWB or pocket in pocket holster. I would not carry it in my pocket without a pocket holster.

In 9mm. something like the HK P7M8 or P7PSP fits the bill but it is 9mm. Why? Because it is a squeeze cocker and I can carry it in my pocket without a holster with one in the chamber and my hand gripping it if necessary.

As far as choices for TOP .45 CCW? There are so many that it boggles the mind. I have several that I might carry but the Glock 30 works for me and is 'handy' and ultra reliable. It is accurate at CQB range and beyond. It is light. Etc. I have a number of mid and full size .45's that I would happily carry "bet my life on it" reliable and accurate but why? The G30 does the job for me and with two spare mags I have 30 rounds... and believe me, if you ain't finished in 30 rounds you have much more serious trouble than which .45 to carry CCW.

Of course, if I can carry full size due to cover garments I would prefer to carry full size and I would stay with the same controls... i.e. a Glock 21.

Tons of choice but always ask yourself if you would bet your life on the gun and if you can get it out and get away a first shot in 1 - 1.5 seconds with one hand. To me that is also a critical consideration.

If the G30 is good enough for Ayoob it is good enough for me. He seems to like the P345 Ruger or P95 for duty carry, but I still would go with the G21 (same controls).

And now for something completely different... engineered self defense rounds. You want to use the best that money can buy. Educate yourself so that you are comfy with your choice. You want the ME calling to say "what the hell was this guy shot with?"; you want to forget center of mass shooting and aim for the cardiovascular triangle (between the nipples up to the base of the throat) and the "dead stop" triange (lip line to bridge of the nose). And in considering what you are going to carry it is a good thing to consider how YOUR accuracy with the weapon is going to be. You want that accuracy as much as anything else because you can have a bad guy keep his motor running with multiple rounds in "center of mass" or worse yet, NOT in the CV or dead stop triangle but in a wall somewhere. Accuracy. Speed to first accurate shot. Recovery from recoil to multiple shots well placed. THAT is what's going to save your life. And that first shot has GOT to be doable with one hand (you are sitting in your car and the bad guy walks up to you).

Be safe.

 

[Deadontarget]

Dan Wesson Bobtail SS

After lots of positive reviews, I'm now leaning towards a CZ Dan Wesson Bobtail SS .45ACP.
I compared it with the Kobra Carry (Beautiful Gun!) and the Wilson Combat Professional (Another beauty!), and I think the Dan Wesson offers a good quality, competitive package. Right now, I can't see spending another $1500 or more for a custom Ed Brown or Wilson. I already have the Classic Custom but to spend almost as much or more for a carry gun is getting less and less realistic for me. The owners out there who have a Dan Wesson Bobtail can't say enough good things about them. I also learned that the price on the DW is going up another $400 for next year. The Frame is going to be an Ed Brown frame. Essential the same frame that is on the gun now, except for the Ed Brown name.
If I decide to get one, does anyone have any thoughts on a good IWB holster. I am currently using a CrossBreed Micro Tuck for my PM9 and it works very well! Thanks :thank_you2:

 

[smsix9]

I'm not going into alot of detail, but for me and my house I will carry the Glock 36! I use a Blackhawk IWB leather and even with just a T-shirt it carrys very well.
Pro Carry
Pro Glock
Pro G36!!

 

[Daugherty16]

You might want to give some consideration to the Taurus 845. I am pleasantly surprised at how thin the grip is, so that it actually tucks closer to my abdomen than my 9mm Beretta 8000. It it totally comfortable even carried IWB. Plus, in .45, it holds 12 in the mag plus one upthe pipe. Add just one spare mag and you've got 25 shots. It comes with 2 mags from the factory.

Controls are like the M92 - but totally ambidextrous - safety/decocker, slide release, and takedown lever. I love it, and it goes with me everywhere it can.

okay, let the taurus bashers chime in now. but only if you've shot this gun.

 

[Ed Hamberger]

All of this tuff talk has prompted me to add my 2 cents worth also... I'm a retired MSgt (USAF) 25 yrs active duty, 68 yrs old, a Vietnam Veteran from 1966-68,(I retired in 1983). I went over in March 66 and came home Oct 68, so I actually spent over two tours in country. I own both 9mm and .45acp pistols and I carry both. Unlike the gentleman who stated the Beretta M9 took as many as 21 rds to take out an insurgent, he didn't mention that the military is committed to carrying NATO rds, so I believe his story... but I carry Federal Hi-Shok JHP +p+ rds in my 9mm and I don't think it would take but one, maybe two rds to put someone's lights with them. So I feel comfortable carrying either weapon, and I always carry spare magazines.

 

[mappow]

SPRINGFIELD 1911, MIL SPEC. Cost is reasonable, works great. I believe this weapons has has more confirmed kills then any other hand gun made. It's slim and handles easy and 3 safeties when carried "Cocked & Locked". Considering it's gone through 2 WW's, Koren conflict, Vietnam, Granada....Have I missed anything? I high advise. Plus if all else fails, can pistol whip and drive a nail if needed. One of the best procured weapon are Government ever purchased!

TWO ROUND BURST-EVALUATE-REPEAT VOLLY IF REQUIRED.

 

[hunter won]

A Glock 19 loaded with 16 rounds of 9mm+P+ hollowpoints like the Winchester 127 grain SXT is a great CCW.Texas DPS had many failures to stop with 230 grain Winchester hollowpoints from the Sig 220 they went to a 200 grain bullet with poor results.The Texas DPS went with the 357 Sig and getting one shot stops still to this day.High velocity is key the Feds back in the 1930's used the 38 Super because of all the troubles with getting a 45 ACP to penetrate car doors.In the real world a +P+ 9mm is all you need,of course one shot stops can be had with a properly placed round to the nose.

 

[tcox4freedom]

I've really found out that I really love the 24/7 ProC 45 as a CCW. It's very comfortable for ADC; extremely accurate and flawlessly reliable.

I also like the fact that I can easily carry 14rds of 45acp loaded & ready.

IMHO; 14rds of 45acp trumps 7 or 8rds of 45acp; AND 14rds of 45acp also trump 19rds of 9mm.

 

[jtg452]

Two quick questions:

1) What can you shoot accurately?

To clarify, I mean what can you snatch out of your preferred concealed carry holster (not draw and go through your pre-shooting ritual, I mean grab it, snatch it out and go to shooting) worn under everyday clothes and put 3 to 5 shots in a group the size of the palm of your hand or smaller at 30 feet? Preferably with only 1 hand, too.

One hole groups ain't necessary for self defense. They just look real nice on paper and tell you that you're doing stuff like trigger press, sight alignment and getting a master grip right.


2) What can you conceal comfortably enough to carry EVERY DAY?

A custom long slide that you can hit Coke bottles at 100 yards with but you can't hide except for 3 weeks out of the year ain't gonna do you any good the other 49 weeks of the year if you need it. A concealed carry piece is worthless if it ain't close at hand. If you can't hide it or it's too heavy to carry all day long, you might wanna get something else.

That's the kind of compromise that only you can decide on. What works for me may be the worst choice for you.

 

[Deadontarget]

I got my DW CBOB

Thanks for all the great responses. I ended up with a Dan Wesson CBOB. I'm very happy with it and have already put several hundreds rounds through it. I carry it with a Crossbreed Supertuck or in a C5 Leather Montana XLT. I'm also using a dual layer bull hide belt made by A&G Custom Gun Leather. I haven't made my final decision yet on which holster is more comfortable, but they are both comfortable, stable, and concealable for all day carry.
I agree that the +9+ mm is a great round for self defense, but so is the 230 holllowpoint hydroshock .45. A couple of well placed shots in the SIZ area will effectively do the job. For work, I carry a .40 in 180 grn hollowpoint. Another great round. I think it just comes down to preference and personal experience. Not all gun sizes work for the same person. Due to height, weight, age, physical condition can have a big impact on whether or not to carry a certain type or caliber handgun.
Thank you all and be safe.

 

[torontogunguy]

First I must say that this business of two round or three round volleys or triple taps is absolute nonsense and I have no idea who came up with this BS. It IS indeed total BS. If you are not being taught to shoot until the threat is terminated you are not being taught by a professional. Period. You do not have the time to stop, evaluate and make a decision. You only have time to recognize that the threat has been stopped and cease firing. That's it guys.

When and where it is legal for me to carry concealed I generally carry either my Glock 26 9mm or Glock 30 .45; although I have played with a few others I feel that one should choose a handgun and stick with it.

As far as caliber is concerned, I do not feel undergunned in any way carrying 9mm nor .45 in today's engineered rounds. It is, needless to repeat, more a matter of accuracy than of size, weight, velocity (although they do play a role of course).

Your two targets are the cardiovascular triangle (not "Center of Mass" unless you have no idea what the cardiovascular triangle is) and if you are able to make good the shot, the "dead stop, lights out" triangle, which has a base roughly across the upper lip with its apex at the bridge of the nose, more or less. The fellow who said "one on the nose" was absolutely correct but you are better off moving laterally, diagonally or backwards while firing unless you have some pretty solid cover (and drywall is NOT cover guys). It's a better shot than me that is able to make a 'dead stop, lights out' shot to the cerebellum. It is unlikely that your target, the bad guy, will even have a reflexive finger twitch to get a round off and this is the shot that LEO snipers are trained to take in hostage or critical situations. It is one hell of a tough shot when still with a tripod, let alone while moving or moving towards cover.

Why do you want to be moving? Simple. The bad guy, assuming that you are aiming for the cardiovascular triangle, is going to have sufficient time to get plenty of rounds off, especially if using select fire or just an automatic with a big magazine; especially if he/she is hopped up on drugs. You want to mess up his aim and force him to track his target (that's you). Even if you have NO possibility of cover... you MUST be moving. (Especially if the bad guy is wearing body armour).

There are several post-mortem studies done with regards to shooting deaths and the interesting thing is that .22's and 9mm. and everything in between count for something like 80 percent of shooting fatalities, incredibly. So, my point is simply that bigger is not always better... but given my choice? I can handle my Glock 30 just fine and would rather be sporting .45 engineered rounds than 9mm engineered rounds; it depends on what the dress code of the day is.

I have also taken a liking to the Sig P239 as of late.

 

[mappow]

Thanks for the input Torontogunguy. Don't neccessarly agree with it all, BUT always willing to hear other options and ideas.

 

[hunter won]

What also works good is the 9mm 124 grain +P Speer Gold Dot.Plenty of LE shootings with this round and has an excellent street record.I know a 45 ACP may be better in some situations but remember it is slow moving and won't have the punch at barriers.It must be close for effective results,10mm is very effective when you have ammo loaded to it's full potential.A +P+ 230grain 45 ACP going over 1100 fps would be very nice out of a 3 inch barrell.