Attitude of Some Police re: Open Carry


ccwaz said:
Assume for just one minute that somebody who is about your same height and weight just robbed a store half a block away. The cop heard about it on his radio. You didn't. He sees you with a gun on your hip. He asks for your ID.

Treat the cop with respect. Assume he is doing his job, which includes putting his life on the line for you and a lot of ungrateful people who are afraid of him because he carries a gun - which is the normal attitude of sheep toward the sheepdog. If you have not broken any laws, you have nothing to fear. Show your ID. While you're at it, thank the cop for his service.

If a real bad guy came in right then and started shooting up the Starbucks, guess who would be the first one to step in front of a bullet for you. Cut the cop some slack.
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Height and weight is not much to go on and if I just robbed a store I wouldn't be calmly walking down the street with my pistol in plain view. I say it's safe to assume that most crooks are at least that smart.

Also I don't have to treat anybody with respect even though I try to be very respectful toward others regardless of their profession. However I will not show respect to someone that does not respect me. An officer making unlawfull demands and backing them with threats is not someone that deserves respect.

Your last comment is pure nonsense. I can instantly think of at least three shootings where police waited outside until the shooter took their own life. I can't think of a single time an officer put their life on the line for me, or anyone I know for that matter. My plumber has put his life at greater risk for me than local LE.
 

I see where this is another thread wherein the camps are settling down into "generally confrontational" or "generally non-confrontational" courses of action.

Now, from my POV, what is the harm in ID'ing yourself to an LEO? "Justified" or not? In the case of OC, in particular, it is YOUR "display" that invited the potential confrontation and the question from the LEO..... legal from the LEO's perspective or not. (Another reason to stick with CC... which reduces "display" problems to a minimum.)

For the LEO, an innocuous request for ID just might be the means by which the LEO satisfies his curiosity as to whether or not the OC person is going to act like a boor or act like a civilized citizen.

I have personally found that treating LEOs with proper respect for and during interpersonal interactions generally wins more support from both the LEOs and any casual observers to the "incident" in the long run.

1) Gives you the stage for setting the rest of the encounter in a civil manner.

2) Gives casual observers the idea that you are "with" the law, rather than contrary to it. (Also gives those same observers the idea that respect for the law is tantamount, despite the fact that you are personally armed well enough to take care of yourself.)

3) Gives the LEO the feeling that you respect his authority. (Again, even if it is being misapplied by that LEO.)

4) It cements the idea that your overall "goals" (i.e. thwarting criminal activity) and his are one and the same and that you are not, through your "display" attempting to somehow diminish HIS authority in the accomplishment of the same goal. (Some folks DO have extremely touchy egos, ya know!)

5) In the long run, having "won over" an LEO through honey rather than pointing out (in public) the errors of his ways is going to insure that THIS LEO, at any rate, is going to consider you more likely a good guy rather than a pain in the butt for any further encounters.

It might be noted, however, that primary use of CC rather than OC would go a long way toward preventing any potential "incidents" in the first place. "Right" to do something does NOT necessarily mean you have to do it, regardless of the concerns and feelings of your fellow citizens.

There really ARE citizens who become upset at the sight of guns. This does not necessarily mean that they want to take our gun rights away from us, they just tend to get nervous over the matter. (The more rural the area, the less you will find that sort of person. Just the way of things.)

Another little item I try to take into consideration in my day to day activities is the concern I have for the feelings of my fellow humans and their pursuit of life and their rights. Out of that concern, I am NOT one to pack a hand cannon on my hip in my daily activities without reguard for the distress I might cause my fellow citizens in so doing. EVEN IF IT IS MY ABSOLUTE "RIGHT" TO DO SO!

LT: THAT is where we had our falling out when you tried to "call me out" over our little disagreement over CC versus OC. I couldn't quite put my finger on it before, but your "signature" tells all. You really don't care about anything except the single minded pursuit of what you consider YOUR rights, everyone else..... get stuffed! (Maybe I'll give you a tissue. How considerate!)

That places you right alongside those spectacular jerks who have the "right" to demonstrate at military funerals, and do so, despite the total lack of civility, manners and decorum involved.

I'm not so calloused as to believe that the exercise of my rights, even when MOST proper to do so, trumps a little concern for the sensitivities, feelings and manners we are expected to show other humans, out of a sence of manners and civility more than anything else.

Just sayin'. Guess I side with oldgrunt on this one.

GG
 
This sight of a person taking responsibility for their self-protection and the protection of their loved ones bothers some people. There are people out there that feel that the government is responsible to protect them from criminals. I am sorry for that. That does not make it any less acceptable of an action to do, however. I feel that an openly carried firearm is the most effective way for me to offer protection for myself and my family. I am sorry that there are people who are offended or scared by that. I am not going to give up the deterrent value of the visible firearm in order to appease the irrational fears of the minority.

There are groups of people out there scared of persons carrying concealed firearms. So, out of consideration for them, you shouldn't carry a concealed firearm, right?

As far as giving in to every order and whim of officers. This country was founded by a group of men who would not tolerate abuses of power forced upon them by the government. All I am doing is taking the same actions the founding fathers did.

Things are not going to get any better in this country if we don't set the proper example of what it truly means to be an American. That means that we don't let the government step on our rights, when we have the power to prevent it.... and it means that we are responsible for our own self-protection against the criminal element.
 
mappow said:
Dam this post sounds more like an episode of "In the Heat of the Night" then free wheeling, anything goes Washington State. (NO malice or harm implied) I thought this crap only happen in the Old South.
I would refer you to the US Attorney Generals Office for your State. He, his office will advise you any possible redress and or investigation that may/could be initiated. Just moving away from the problem does not do anyone any good. Especially those that still live in that jurisdiction. JUST my input, good luck and God Bless.
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:pleasantry: Thanks for the input. You are right.
 
NavyLT said:
1) This sight of a person taking responsibility for their self-protection and the protection of their loved ones bothers some people. There are people out there that feel that the government is responsible to protect them from criminals. I am sorry for that. That does not make it any less acceptable of an action to do, however. I feel that an openly carried firearm is the most effective way for me to offer protection for myself and my family. I am sorry that there are people who are offended or scared by that. I am not going to give up the deterrent value of the visible firearm in order to appease the irrational fears of the minority.

2) There are groups of people out there scared of persons carrying concealed firearms. So, out of consideration for them, you shouldn't carry a concealed firearm, right?

3) As far as giving in to every order and whim of officers. This country was founded by a group of men who would not tolerate abuses of power forced upon them by the government. All I am doing is taking the same actions the founding fathers did.

4) Things are not going to get any better in this country if we don't set the proper example of what it truly means to be an American. That means that we don't let the government step on our rights, when we have the power to prevent it.... and it means that we are responsible for our own self-protection against the criminal element.
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1) We've already gone through the OC/CC plusses and minuses. Moot point by now. You're "convinced". Fine.

2) Main difference, which seems to escape you, is that they don't KNOW I'm armed if I am CC. Whereas if I have a hand cannon on my hip, removes all shadow of a doubt.... which puts back into concern for THEIR sensitivities, which you don't give a large rodent's posterior about, apparently. Thus... ANOTHER moot point.

3) Where did I EVER say "giving in" to EVERY whim of the LEO's? I gave a specific case study, with reasons for my opinion and you try to make a generic statement out of it. A rhetorical game, been done before. (Plato is the earliest example I can recall.)

4) According to you then.... the "Proper example" to be a REAL American is to go about armed, openly, 24/7, verbally confront anyone and everyone who looks askance at your "display", treat as sob sisters and weaklings anyone who doesn't coincide to your "reasoning" and to be as obnoxious and as confrontational as possible, from all appearances. (Definitive example of "The Ugly American", IMHO.)

When we first "crossed swords", I mentioned, half in jest, "Are you lookin' for a fight, buddy?" I'll be damned if it seems to turn out that you ARE! JUST the type of person to be "packing heat" 24/7. (That's sarcasm.)

The sign of a great society is NOT how many gunslingers there are running around the streets, legal or not. The sign of a great society is CIVILITY! Toward one another. A little item seemingly lost on you.

GG
 
Grognard Gunny said:
4) According to you then.... the "Proper example" to be a REAL American is to go about armed, openly, 24/7, verbally confront anyone and everyone who looks askance at your "display", treat as sob sisters and weaklings anyone who doesn't coincide to your "reasoning" and to be as obnoxious and as confrontational as possible, from all appearances. (Definitive example of "The Ugly American", IMHO.)
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This is what is scaring some people, Gunny...

Link Removed

Come on, now.... REALLY? You REALLY think I should change this, just because a few people are scared by it?

This is the "hand cannon" that I terrorize the public with:

Link Removed
 
NavyLT said:
This is what is scaring some people, Gunny...

Link Removed

Come on, now.... REALLY? You REALLY think I should change this, just because a few people are scared by it?

This is the "hand cannon" that I terrorize the public with:

Link Removed
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:pleasantry: Is that your picture NavyLT ? Just curious thats all. If it is, you are wearing my hat. :pleasantry::pleasantry:
 
santa said:
:pleasantry: Is that your picture NavyLT ? Just curious thats all. If it is, you are wearing my hat. :pleasantry::pleasantry:
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Yes, that is really me, except I don't wear glasses anymore because of your generous tax donations to LASIK and PRK surgeries for me, thank you very much!

No, you can't date my step-daughter..... :biggrin:

I am also featured at 14 seconds here:
 
NavyLT said:
Yes, that is really me, except I don't wear glasses anymore because of your generous tax donations to LASIK and PRK surgeries for me, thank you very much!

No, you can't date my step-daughter..... :biggrin:

I am also featured at 14 seconds here:
YouTube - OpenCarry.org Meeting at Dino's Restaurant in Burien, WA
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:pleasantry: Well if I was 40 years younger I might have asked her out. These days though my wife of 37 years probably wouldnt like me dating anyone. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:Besides wife gave me a Mossberg 410 pump for a late Christmas present and how can you beat that? My wife has good taste in men and guns too. Glad your eyeballs are ok. I like your toy on your hip and it does NOT bother me at all. But you are wearing my hat. Have a good one.
 
Geez LT, you need to be armed with a step daughter that looks like that. :laugh:

Ive got two little girls that I'll be beating the boys off with a stick too, when they get to that age. I don't think I'll let them date until they move out. :laugh:
 
That audio is crazy.

I am eagerly awaiting Ruger's response to this audio. These cops must be the model citizens he refers to that deserve our undying devotion and respect.
 
ccwaz said:
assume for just one minute that somebody who is about your same height and weight just robbed a store half a block away. The cop heard about it on his radio. You didn't. He sees you with a gun on your hip. He asks for your id.

Treat the cop with respect. Assume he is doing his job, which includes putting his life on the line for you and a lot of ungrateful people who are afraid of him because he carries a gun - which is the normal attitude of sheep toward the sheepdog. If you have not broken any laws, you have nothing to fear. Show your id. While you're at it, thank the cop for his service.

If a real bad guy came in right then and started shooting up the starbucks, guess who would be the first one to step in front of a bullet for you. Cut the cop some slack.
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well said !
 
I lost interest somewhere around the eight minute point. What finally happened? Was he released after the OC vs CC within city limits question was sorted out? Presumably the on-call DA rep was consulted since these cowboys clearly slept through the applicable training sessions.
 
I would respectfully tell the cop "NO" how many criminals open carry? how many rob a store at gun point and just trot over to their local starbucks?

A cop has no more legal right to ask for my ID because I'm OCing as they do to ask purely because of someone's skin color. Citizens have rights to privacy. Rights arent just something we have or get to play with. they are a responsibility that we must use! the day we stop being responsible for our rights is they day we lose them. I for one will fight to the end for my rights, all of them!
 
AO, I think the fellow in question pushed the envelope about as far as he could and showed remarkable resolve in the process given the circumstances. He doesn't need anyone to tell him how to suck eggs. The next step was going to be a police baton up side the head. But good on ya for fighting to the end through that keyboard.
 
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